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Old
05-25-2014, 12:24 PM
  #1
Flames rebuilder
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Flames and Caps


Mark Giordano
Curtis Glencross

Evgeny Kuznetsov
Madison Bowey
Tom Wilson

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:26 PM
  #2
Volica
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I'm going to go ahead and decline on both sides before this thread gets out of hand.

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:34 PM
  #3
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No thanks

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:46 PM
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trick9
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Hell no from Caps POV.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:03 PM
  #5
snipetype
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So two decent prospects and a Russian guy who probably won't even play three more seasons in the NHL for a perennial 20 goal guy and one of the top 10 dmen I'm the league. Wow! Just wow.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:07 PM
  #6
SaintMorose
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Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
So two decent prospects and a Russian guy who probably won't even play three more seasons in the NHL for a perennial 20 goal guy and one of the top 10 dmen I'm the league. Wow! Just wow.
Evgeny Kuznetsov is in no way a throw-in to a trade I don't see any way the Caps give up on him after last season. That said I'll agree Calgary may have a hard time re-signing him as they aren't giving him a chance to play with Ovenchicken and giving up their best pieces to see him walk in a couple year doesn't help us either.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:08 PM
  #7
western redmen
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Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
So two decent prospects and a Russian guy who probably won't even play three more seasons in the NHL for a perennial 20 goal guy and one of the top 10 dmen I'm the league. Wow! Just wow.
You can't just value our guy at full value and theirs at their lowest. I would do this cuz I love kuz

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:11 PM
  #8
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Hahaha terrible for the Caps

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:15 PM
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snipetype
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Kuzbetsov is good but he hadn't really proven to me that he likes the NHL.

He would probably just bolt.

So say it was glencross for Wilson (pretty fair maybe calgary adds a small pick/prospect)

That means Gio for Bowey and Kuz! Sorry but that's just an AWFUL return for a player of Gio's caliber. We only have a #1 and #2 dman. Then we have a bunch of 5~6 guys and really no great d prospects. We need more defencemen not less.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:21 PM
  #10
Kritty
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Kuzbetsov is good but he hadn't really proven to me that he likes the NHL.

He would probably just bolt.

So say it was glencross for Wilson (pretty fair maybe calgary adds a small pick/prospect)

That means Gio for Bowey and Kuz! Sorry but that's just an AWFUL return for a player of Gio's caliber. We only have a #1 and #2 dman. Then we have a bunch of 5~6 guys and really no great d prospects. We need more defencemen not less.
Calgary adds to Glencross to get Wilson? Huh? Somehow I don't think that is the case. A top 6 two way winger that can score, play all situations and on a dirt cheap contract for someone who has yet to prove he will be anything more than a 4th liner. Don't think so.

For any Caps fans who say no way, you really need to stop and rethink that one. What exactly are you giving up in the deal? Bowey may or may not become an impact dman while Kuznetsov could easily be a KHL star as opposed to an NHL one.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:24 PM
  #11
Johnny Hoxville
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I'll leave it at I think both sides pass, value isn't awful though.

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Old
05-25-2014, 01:36 PM
  #12
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If it was Carslon instead of kuznetsov then the deal would start to look ok. But the flames are just VERY short on D. Both as prospects and roster players go. We have Gaudreau, bartschi, Granlund, Reinhart, this years first (unless we get Ekblad), jankowski, Poirier, Arnold,and klimchuk among others as forward prospects.

On D we have wotherspoon, sieloff, kanzig. Plus defence take longer to develop and are extremely important to success (look at boston, LA, Chicago and Anaheim soon.) all those teams have great bluelines.
And you want to trade our best defencemen for a Russian forward and a prospect. Wow.

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Old
05-25-2014, 03:31 PM
  #13
Fallschirmyager
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Glencross 31 1 year then UFA
Giordano 30 2 years then UFA

Kuznetsov 22 ELA/RFA for min 5 years
Wilson 20 ELA/RFA total 6 more years
Bowey 19 Still 7 years of control

The only way this would ever be considered from the CAPS is a dead line panic deal to make the playoffs if then.
Kuznetsov has vastly higher potential than Glencross.
Wilson brings a toughness that the CAPS lack and when has been given the chance higher than the 4th line has done well. He has a lot of potential.
Bowey I am not familiar with but I've heard other fans speak well of him.

There is no way the CAPS agree to this and as GMGM said, "we're not going to do your rebuild for you."

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Old
05-25-2014, 03:35 PM
  #14
alpine4life
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Value seems OK but too much $$$ going to washington

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Old
05-25-2014, 03:37 PM
  #15
InfinityIggy
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Value is...okay. Both sides pass.

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Old
05-25-2014, 03:53 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype View Post
So two decent prospects and a Russian guy who probably won't even play three more seasons in the NHL for a perennial 20 goal guy and one of the top 10 dmen I'm the league. Wow! Just wow.
Like Giordano but he's not close to being one of the top 10 d-men in the league. There is a reason Calgary has stunk for years. Their fans overrate their players constantly.

That being said, Calgary if they were to deal those 2 players would be wise to deal them in separate deals. Plus, Calgary has stunk so long it's time they turned it around now. They need to deal those players for NHL ready guys who will mature in a couple years but can play now. Not some 18 or 19 year old player who will take 3 years to make the NHL and another 2 to start contributing. Tom Wilson shouldn't be in the NHL. He should be in the AHL for 2 years learning how to score.


Better deal for the Flames


Glencross to Minn

for

Zucker
Gabriel
2nd

Glencross won't get nearly as much time on a better team so his offensive numbers will go down. Those are two role players the Flames could use.

Giordano and Backlund to the Isles

for

de Haan
Nelson
Martin

Let's face it. Giordano has 2 more years on his contract and unless he's a complete moron, there is no way he's signing with the Flames. Nelson to me will be much better than Backlund who Flames fans vastly overrate. He would fit in on the Islanders behind Tavares and Strome where he didn't have to score much.

Add Zucker, Gabriel, Martin, Nelson and de Haan, lose Giordano, Glencross and Backlund.

May not seem like it but this makes the Flames much tougher to play against in a couple of years. They will add a few more high draft picks. Let's face it. They are going to need a guy who can actually play to protect Gaudreau, not a worthless goon like McGrattan. Martin fits that role perfectly. Obviously, Flames fans will think they can get the world for Giordano. Why? I'm pretty sure every GM out there feels there is no way he will sign with the Flames and they can probably get him for money in a couple of years.


Last edited by richardsequalscup*: 05-25-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
05-25-2014, 03:58 PM
  #17
Dr John Carlson
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Originally Posted by Kritty View Post
Calgary adds to Glencross to get Wilson? Huh? Somehow I don't think that is the case. A top 6 two way winger that can score, play all situations and on a dirt cheap contract for someone who has yet to prove he will be anything more than a 4th liner. Don't think so.

For any Caps fans who say no way, you really need to stop and rethink that one. What exactly are you giving up in the deal? Bowey may or may not become an impact dman while Kuznetsov could easily be a KHL star as opposed to an NHL one.
No we don't. Giordano would be a great fit on the Caps but not at that price.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:15 PM
  #18
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It's a very high price from both sides, as it should be. IMO, Gio and GlenX are exactly what the Caps are missing. They add a nice combination of grit, work ethic and offensive ability, that could make the Caps one of the top teams in the NHL again. The Flame's get a great package of prospects at various stages of development that could all be great players, in time. I think the Caps win this trade easily, today but the Flames could come out ahead in the long run. Washington isn't in a "win now" situation but I feel it could be their last shot at a good run with the current roster before major changes are made if they fail to produce.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:21 PM
  #19
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the capitals don't need Glencross. Remove him from the deal and start over. Might the Caps be willing to part with one of Orlov, Schmidt, Carrick, Wey and Bowey to get a Giordano? sure.

They would not add Kuznetsov or Wilson for that. Might they be willing to part with Wilson to get Giordano? Less likely because they only have the one guy like that. But its possible. In both cases the Caps are not going trade Kuznetsov. A 1st? sure. Brouwer? Probably. Johansson? maybe. Kuz?? no.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:26 PM
  #20
txpd
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
It's a very high price from both sides, as it should be. IMO, Gio and GlenX are exactly what the Caps are missing. They add a nice combination of grit, work ethic and offensive ability, that could make the Caps one of the top teams in the NHL again. The Flame's get a great package of prospects at various stages of development that could all be great players, in time. I think the Caps win this trade easily, today but the Flames could come out ahead in the long run. Washington isn't in a "win now" situation but I feel it could be their last shot at a good run with the current roster before major changes are made if they fail to produce.
Where your "great package of prospects" goes off the rails is that Kuznetsov would likely have been the first player taken in the draft the last three years had he for some reason gone back into it. He is not a prospect per say either.

Would you trade the first pick in the draft for Giordano? I don't think many teams would do that.

Again, the Caps don't need Glencross and Glencross seems to be your avenue for including both Kuz and Wilson in that deal.

I also think your are pitching this as if Kuznetsov and Wilson are minor league players when both are inked into the Caps NHL roster.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:38 PM
  #21
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the capitals don't need Glencross. Remove him from the deal and start over. Might the Caps be willing to part with one of Orlov, Schmidt, Carrick, Wey and Bowey to get a Giordano? sure.

They would not add Kuznetsov or Wilson for that. Might they be willing to part with Wilson to get Giordano? Less likely because they only have the one guy like that. But its possible. In both cases the Caps are not going trade Kuznetsov. A 1st? sure. Brouwer? Probably. Johansson? maybe. Kuz?? no.
Quite honestly, they're all good prospects but any combination of them, without Kuz, doesn't even make the Flames consider moving Gio. Disagree with Glencross not being needed. Cap's have one of the purest offensive teams in the league but lack the drive to see it through. GlenX is one of those rare players that works like a bottom sixer but can still hang with Washingtons high flyers. He could honestly be a difference maker on a team like the Caps.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:54 PM
  #22
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Where your "great package of prospects" goes off the rails is that Kuznetsov would likely have been the first player taken in the draft the last three years had he for some reason gone back into it. He is not a prospect per say either.

Would you trade the first pick in the draft for Giordano? I don't think many teams would do that.

Again, the Caps don't need Glencross and Glencross seems to be your avenue for including both Kuz and Wilson in that deal.

I also think your are pitching this as if Kuznetsov and Wilson are minor league players when both are inked into the Caps NHL roster.
Wow man, you have a lot of reasons why the Caps would say no but saying Kuz could have been the 1st overall the last three years is ridiculous! Honestly, wouldn't trade the 4th overall for him, in this years draft. He's a great, young player but come on! Wilson is tough but he only put up 10 points on the Caps. Like someone said, he should still be in the AHL.

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Old
05-25-2014, 04:55 PM
  #23
txpd
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
Quite honestly, they're all good prospects but any combination of them, without Kuz, doesn't even make the Flames consider moving Gio. Disagree with Glencross not being needed. Cap's have one of the purest offensive teams in the league but lack the drive to see it through. GlenX is one of those rare players that works like a bottom sixer but can still hang with Washingtons high flyers. He could honestly be a difference maker on a team like the Caps.
I don't see it. glencross has 2 twenty goal seasons. its been two years since he's been at that level. the caps have ward, chimera and laich who are similar players. glencross is no mike knuble.

kuznetsov has a legit shot at being an allstar. just watching him in oates wacked out system it clear.

being realistic, if you insist on the caps taking glencross, id think laich or ward would have to go back the other way. thinking you wouldn't want chimera, two twenty goal season or not.

realistically speaking. the capitals are not going to trade all three of those prospects.

lastly, you realize that you are suggesting that the caps give glencross kuznetsov spot in the lineup.

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Old
05-25-2014, 05:08 PM
  #24
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Lol I'm still trying to figure out why the Caps need GlenX when Brouwer and Ward are as good if not better. Then Laich will return and make the situation even more redundant.

So for Gio maybe the Caps first and a prospect like Barber or Bowey. That's the offer. Don't like it? Don't care. That package along with plenty of cap room can provide the top 4 help the Caps need.

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Old
05-25-2014, 05:08 PM
  #25
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On a talent level, yes it is close.

But kuz holds little value to most teams because he might just pull a Radulov. He wasn't eager to play in NA in the first place.

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