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It's the same old Song for Jani Rita.

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10-04-2003, 05:11 AM
  #1
Lowetide
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It's the same old Song for Jani Rita.

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/e...0-04-0105.html


I think it's time for him to try another team. Agree?

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10-04-2003, 05:20 AM
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GorillazXL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I think it's time for him to try another team. Agree?
Got the same feeling after reading the Journal as well. Joanne Ireland indicated that he's been falling from the depth chart. This kinda suclks because I don't hink he's had a decent chance to play with good solid linemates (not taking anything away from Salmo, and Sarno). He played well lining up with Reasoner, and seemed extremely tenative with Sarno. If its the case he can't seem to crack our lineup then should we package him up? I mean if he had made the team he would be worth more in a trade but because he's sorta in limbo I'm not sure we can get equal value for him straight up.


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10-04-2003, 06:34 AM
  #3
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Good points on linemates, Gorilla, it seems Rita was behind Torres at the start of camp and that (at least partly) dictated what transpired.

Every once in awhile I post a rambling item on "clusters". The idea is that every championship team's success is based on a short (less than 5 years) period of exceptional procurement. Here's two examples:

New York Islanders

1972 Expansion Draft: Bill Smith
1972 Entry Draft: RW BIlly Harris, RW Bob Nystrom, C Lorne Henning
1973 Entry Draft: D Denis Potvin, D Dave Lewis, C Andre St. Laurent, D Bob Lorimer
1974 Entry Draft: LW Clark Gillies, C Bryan Trottier, D Dave Langevin, D Stefan Persson.
They also traded for guys like Bob Bourne, and they ignited their Cup runs by packaging two of these guys up (Harris and Lewis) and dealing them for Butch Goring.


Edmonton Oilers

November 1978: Gretzky's plane lands.
Entry Draft 1979: Kevin Lowe, Mark Messier, Glenn Anderson
Entry Draft 1980: Paul Coffey, Jari Jurri, Walt Poddubny, Andy Moog
Entry Draft 1981: Grant Fuhr, Steve Smith

The 1983 draft also had Tikkanen and Beukeboom, but that short spurt was the catalyst for all those Cups.


The current Oilers are acquiring talent in huge gulps, and the Oilers list of prospects is as impressive as its been since the early 1980s. Not all of them will turn out, and some will be cashed in for need.

Which brings me to my point (thank GOD!): Jani Rita


Once a week of so I drop into the trade board or prospect board and read that Rita is a failed prospect blah blah blah. I don't buy it.

Rita has been passed by so many prospects now (Hemsky, Pisani, Salmelainen, Comrie and Semenov from his draft year) that he must feel like a marked man. I think it's just a matter of SO MANY fine prospects emerging at one time, a cluster, that Rita has been pushed aside.

This is EXACTLY the point in time when good players get away. Miro Satan was emerging at a time when the Oilers seemed to have tons of scoring wingers just coming into their own.

Rita's the same. I'll cheer for him no matter where he goes, and I bet he surpasses some of the guys who stay behind.

The important thing is to get good value. Sather traded Poddubny for Boschman who turned into Willy Lindstrom, who was here for two Stanleys.

Is there a good reason to keep Rita on the farm? Really?

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10-04-2003, 06:44 AM
  #4
Jim_Harnock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Is there a good reason to keep Rita on the farm? Really?
My answer to that question is no. MacT's whole "there are deficiencies in his game" routine is BS -- if players were sent to the farm because of problems with their game, we'd have an NHL roster with something like six names on it, if that. As you can tell, I'm not very happy with this decision, and the reason for that is I know Rita is going to be a very good NHLer, but now it seems like he's going to be a very good NHLer on another team. He sure isn't being given much of a chance here.

Passed over in favour of Peter f--king Sarno?!?

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10-04-2003, 06:57 AM
  #5
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Good draft clusters can produce "dynasties" .... and the Oilers have had some exceptional "luck" with their drafting lately, not to mention getting Bergeron who went undrafted I thiink.

Sadly, I have to agree with you guys about Rita. I think the kid is another Ryan Smyth in the making, but it seems more likely that he will be doing the rest of his developing elsewhere. The oilers are full of people they seem to think more highly of .....

What has me wondering now though, is the rumour about trading Comrie to Chicago. The rumour mentioned Arnason specificly but I don't thinnk Arnason would have been the guy Kevin Lowe was after. I was thinking Comrie, Rita, and young defensmen might have been offered to Chicago for Tuomo Rutuu. Kevin Lowe is very high on Rutuu I hear ..... and Tuomo would look real good playing with young Hemsky...... Makes me wonder , yup : )

 
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10-04-2003, 07:14 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/e...0-04-0105.html


I think it's time for him to try another team. Agree?
Unfortunately, I do. I had such high hopes for him this training camp, and he seemed to be developing such good chemistry with Reasoner. The question that remains is, do we send him to TO and use him AGAIN as a call-up in case of injuries, or use him as trade bait. In the meantime it looks like he definately on his way back down. Oh well, hopefully he gets lots of minutes on the top line, and buffs his stats a little.

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10-04-2003, 07:14 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Harnock
Passed over in favour of Peter f--king Sarno?!?

I disagree that he's being passed by Sarno. The way I read it at camp is that Sarno and Stoll are after one spot and Salmo and Rita are after the other. I would be very surprised to see both Sarno and Stoll here unless the Smyth experiment at centre is over without a regular season try.

Sarno has had a better camp than Rita, and that's frustrating because know one believes Sarno to be the better player.

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10-04-2003, 07:15 AM
  #8
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ummm we're all away that hes 22 still right? i think its ENTIRELY too soon to give up on this guy... ENTIRELY too soon. i cant stress this enough, is there a problem having this guy playing in our system? we can bring him up at any point if he starts lighting it up in the AHL, or if we get into injury troubles. i dont see how having good young prospects in the system is a BAD thing. especially when we wont get back fair market value for him (as an unproven player, but with loads of possible potential)

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10-04-2003, 07:53 AM
  #9
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I think it would be rash to give up on the kid already. He's got the size and skill to be a great player, but he's just taking a little longer to put it all together. So he doesn't make the roster this october - he's still a great sub-in for injuries.

All of Guy's interviews I read of his AHL teammates indicate that they have seen the potential and strength in him, and most were plugging him as the next to make it in the NHL, if I'm not mistaken. I just feel like giving up on him this early might come back to haunt us. While he may not be a late bloomer on the scale Bertuzzi, he could easily sting us like the Satan trade.

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10-04-2003, 07:57 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyF
I disagree that he's being passed by Sarno. The way I read it at camp is that Sarno and Stoll are after one spot and Salmo and Rita are after the other.
I didn't mean they were competing for the same spot, just that it astounds me that Rita is going to be sent back down to the AHL while a guy like Sarno has a legitimate shot at making the team.

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10-04-2003, 08:13 AM
  #11
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Personally, I don't really buy this 'poor Jani, he's being so hard done by' thing. Ultimately he's the person in charge of his own career, and he needs to show a pulse...some shred of intensity that states he's better than his competition. He hasn't learned a single thing from a year ago IMO...he's got stage fright all over again.

He needs to go to Toronto and think about some things, because right now between him and Salmelainen I've got no problem picking Salmo, and given their talent levels that shouldn't happen.

Jani may become a great player on another team, but right now he seems closer to becoming the next Mariusz Czerkawski than the next great power forward.

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10-04-2003, 08:32 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
Personally, I don't really buy this 'poor Jani, he's being so hard done by' thing. Ultimately he's the person in charge of his own career, and he needs to show a pulse...some shred of intensity that states he's better than his competition. He hasn't learned a single thing from a year ago IMO...he's got stage fright all over again.

He needs to go to Toronto and think about some things, because right now between him and Salmelainen I've got no problem picking Salmo, and given their talent levels that shouldn't happen.

Jani may become a great player on another team, but right now he seems closer to becoming the next Mariusz Czerkawski than the next great power forward.
Agreed. Jani is still young, and I wouldn't trade him if I was Lowe, mostly because the return is going to be downright poor. It's worth toughing it out with Rita one more AHL season. If he doesn't proove anything, simply don't resign him and let him find a job via free agency.

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10-04-2003, 08:41 AM
  #13
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Jani Rita hasn't played

Jani Rita hasn't played well and it is always the same excuse. If he was put with better players.

He is supposed to be an elite prospect that makes other players around him better. The only person Jani Rita came blame on his fate is Jani Rita. He just hasn't wanted it bad enough and no amount of excuses is going to change it.

I think that is the thing missing from his game. Drive, determination and hustle.

It isn't Mac-Ts fault or Lowe's fault.

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10-04-2003, 08:50 AM
  #14
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No other city in THe NHL would be having this discussion, I GUARENTEE IT. I had high hopes just like alot of others have, and I was also dissapointed when he seemed to have lost his fire. but he si only 22, and can still turn out to be a real player in the NHL. I guarentee you we would not get full return for this kid, so why risk a M. Naslund for V. Vujtek deal. Let's hold on to this kid for a while, we might not have room for him now, but if this summer is any indication, the injury bug seems to be passing through Edmonton, so we can use some breakers in Hamilton. also, even if he doesnt make the team, Sarno or Salmo or Stoll can makethe team to start but fizzle out, if we start the year slow, there is gonna be shake-ups, him not making the team to start doesn't mean he's not gonna get any icetime.

be patient with him, he'll come around.

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10-04-2003, 08:55 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
No other city in THe NHL would be having this discussion, I GUARENTEE IT. I had high hopes just like alot of others have, and I was also dissapointed when he seemed to have lost his fire. but he si only 22, and can still turn out to be a real player in the NHL. I guarentee you we would not get full return for this kid, so why risk a M. Naslund for V. Vujtek deal. Let's hold on to this kid for a while, we might not have room for him now, but if this summer is any indication, the injury bug seems to be passing through Edmonton, so we can use some breakers in Hamilton. also, even if he doesnt make the team, Sarno or Salmo or Stoll can makethe team to start but fizzle out, if we start the year slow, there is gonna be shake-ups, him not making the team to start doesn't mean he's not gonna get any icetime.

be patient with him, he'll come around.
I don't think Rita's going to be playing for Montreal's farm team. Edmonton's farm team is in Toronto. I do think you meant Toronto.

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10-04-2003, 09:08 AM
  #16
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Or...

I don't think we should make much of this article. I think MacT's comments are geared in the direction of motivating Rita for the final preseason games...here's hoping Rita interprets the quotes the same way and comes out like he's got something to prove.

A little reverse sychology never hurt anyone but after three years of the same "we like his game and his skill but he needs to improve in other areas" anybody would lose confidence and motivation.

I think those of you who feel Rita might just need a change a scenery are bang on. I think the thing is maybe our coaching isn't as strong as it could be because a Lemaire or Hitchcock would have given Rita the chance in the bigs years ago and eased him in while teaching him the finer points of the game themselves. My point being MacT doesn't like some parts of Jani's game...why doesn't he keep him up if he feels he is so promising and ease him in like Hemsky last year while ragging on him to work harder to improve.

Rita is not going to do anything but pout if we flat out demote him Toronto yet again...and I don't know if I blame the guy.

Most proposals saw Comrie and Moreau packaged for other talents including a young d-man but now that Ethan is here to stay at least off the start of the year...maybe Rita can book the seat next to MC and bust out of Edmonton. Whoever acquired those two talents in the same deal would definitely walk away laughing.

The whole Arnason+, Stefan+, and all the other bogus proposals cannot land a team Comrie and Rita and if it does KLO took one for the team. I think if we send both of them we should look for a proven under 30 talent...Comrie and Rita should get us a Havlatesque type player or even a Jay McKee and Max Afinogenov. I think that's where we should go with this if both Comrie and Rita are now officially on the block.

To Buffalo: Comrie, Rita and Bergeron

To Edmonton: McKee, Afinogenov, and a 3rd rounder

I think Comrie outweighs McKee as a talent but McKee fits out need so it may work out to be rather even. Rita and Afinogenov are both ready to have their coming out parties...Max is coming off an injury plagued season but is still boiling over with natural talent and plays the RW while Jani is just looking for a place where he can actually play and prove himself. Bergeron doesn't equal a third rounder but at the same time i think the 3rd has to be included to even out the rest of the deal. Buffalo does have a petite center similar to Comrie in Briere who they acquired only last year but as the years go by GM's are starting to come to their senses and relize that maybe size doesn't matter and shouldn't be placed higher than pure skill.

Thats all i have to see why do you think of this proposal and the thread in general.

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10-04-2003, 11:01 AM
  #17
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I agree completely with Digger and Spaz. I wish people would quick making excuses for Rita and try to place the blame at the feet of others. To suggest Mactavish is to blame is ridiculous. To suggest Hitchcock or Lemaire would be a 'magic answer' is simply speculative.

Jani Rita is viewed to have high-level skills. This much has been said and endorsed by his AHL teammates. As fans, we too can see this potential but only in frustrating spurts and tantalizing teases. However what too is apparent for all to see is a very evident lack of consistency.

Playing time is earned not an entitlement. Jani must want it BADLY to success beyond being a journeyman player. Rita's development and potential now rests between his ears. It is for Jani Rita to determine his fate and whether he is committed to the hard work, sacrifice and commitment to become a player or simply satisfied to show the flashes of what he could be.

Further patience is required. Jani Rita has the gifts to be great. But Rita is coming quickly to a crossroads and will soon determine his own fate.

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10-04-2003, 11:23 AM
  #18
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The worst thing of this whole situation is what happened mid way through camp. For some uncomprehendable reason, MacT broke up Reasoner and Rita who had the most chemistry of anybody in the entire camp so he could get Reasoner time with some bum mid 20's player who has no where to go but down (How can you not think that Pisani played the best hockey of his life for those few games last year)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In all reality Rita would be a good fit on a line with Moreau and Reasoner, but NO MacT would rather break up that line, put Rita with two other guys fighting for jobs. HOW STUPID can you be to break up something that was going so great??!!?!?!???!!?!??!?!?!? I mean Pisani has no future with our organization... there are WAY to many farly superior players challenging, and when one of them is starting to break through you take him of the line he was having good success with and put him with two others!! Now what we are seeing and hearing is that Fernando is dropping down the charts as the young guys are showing that they could bring nearly as much now and a LOT more in the future.

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10-04-2003, 11:41 AM
  #19
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I agree with Thome. MacT was famous for breaking up lines that were scoring last year, he's done it again with Rita and Reasoner.

The kid is supposed to be a goal scorer. Do they put him with good linemates? No, they put him out there with BG and Stoll and wait for him to dominate.

He comes up here during the regular season and scores, do they keep him up here? No, they send him to the minors to work on his defense because of his deplorable +2 in 12 games. OK, maybe his defense wasn't the best ever, but WTF was Comrie doing here if defense was a pre-requisite? He shoulda been in the echl if that was the case.

If Jani doesn't play with some good linemates tonight it's because MacT just doesn't like him and he doesn't want him to succeed here.

Rita Stoll Laraque = Rita gone soon

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10-04-2003, 11:54 AM
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You can put me

squarely in the pro Rita camp. This kid has mega talent and, from the reports I've read coming out of camp and on this board, was behind torres from the get go in Mac-t's mind. The fact that a career minor leaguer with half as much talent(sarno) and a smaller, less defensively minded version of Rita(selmo) could very well get on the team and not him is blaspahmous. Hemsky had huge holes in some aspects of his games, but he wasn't jerked around and ignored, as Mac-t does to Rita. Yes, Rita has a lot to learn, but I see no reason why he can't learn it up here, because he will learn nothing but how to be resentful when he's sent down. Let's put the facts straight: Rita is a 22 year old with great two way talent who has never been given a fair shot to be an NHLer by the oilers. It's hyppocritical really. Some players(hemsky) get their flaws overlooked so they can be on the team, while others(Rita) are expected to be perfect and polished when they come to the team.

However, with that having been said, there's no reason to trade Rita. We won't get much value for him, as he hasn't done anything at the NHL level yet, and he doesn't have the hype that big market prospects get. A couple months in the AHL, then getting called up and hopefully sticking as an injury/trade replacement is what I'm hoping. The fact that we have such a talent at the minor league level can only mean good things for us, and there's no reason to trade him away and watch him blossom on another team.

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10-04-2003, 11:54 AM
  #21
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I think we could be witnessing this little regimes Satan situation. I mean Ron Lowe and Slats weren't willing to give Miro the shot he needed, I'm beginning to think MacT is going to do the same thing (and Lowe is going to sit by and watch it happen)

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10-04-2003, 12:02 PM
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I know Oilers signed Pisani to what seems to me to be "a long term deal, but hasn't Rita had a better training camp that Pisani ?

I anticipate seeing Pisani in the pressbox tonite and Rita playing.

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10-04-2003, 12:07 PM
  #23
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Rita

IMO, Lowe and MacT are being criticized too much on the Rita situation. Lowe and MacT can't play for Rita.

Rita has to earn a spot and not be given a spot on a silver spoon. Rita is being overrated just because of the WJC when he scored 7 or 8 goals. Rita has a good WJC and nothing much since. He had a good playoffs a couple of years ago.

I don't agree with THN rating him as the Oilers #1 prospect. Last season, all the reports had Rita being runner up for ROTY and was guaranteed to make the team. This year he's once again as one of the top rookies in the NHL.

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10-04-2003, 12:35 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers89
IMO, Lowe and MacT are being criticized too much on the Rita situation. Lowe and MacT can't play for Rita.

Rita has to earn a spot and not be given a spot on a silver spoon. Rita is being overrated just because of the WJC when he scored 7 or 8 goals. Rita has a good WJC and nothing much since. He had a good playoffs a couple of years ago.

I don't agree with THN rating him as the Oilers #1 prospect. Last season, all the reports had Rita being runner up for ROTY and was guaranteed to make the team. This year he's once again as one of the top rookies in the NHL.
I think those are two different points, though. I think we can make a statement that coach MacTavish can break camp with his strongest lineup and that could certainly exclude Rita. If he feels Torres is better suited to the crash 4th line he's making than Rita, I can certainly live with that. If he feels Pisani and Moreau bring more to the checking line, well he knows a helluva lot more about it than I do.

On the other hand, it's probably fair to say that Rita has a better future than Pisani, Moreau, and maybe even guys like Torres and Chimera.

I'm not ripping MacT or Lowe. I'm suggesting it might be better to package Rita now for a pick or some help.

If he is sent out, that will mean he's spent his three seasons in NA in the AHL. Do you think there's a good chance he'd sign back in Edmonton, or maybe go play in Finland and wait until he's 27? Or maybe wait for a trade from Edmonton after the strike?

The argument being put forth is that the Oilers would be better off dealing Rita now than waiting for an uncertain future.

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10-04-2003, 01:02 PM
  #25
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I think one reason why the Oilers are hesitant to trade Rita, other then the possible return, is need. Other than a goalie at the AHL level, the current Oilers roster is pretty deep. We aren't going to trade Jani for another forward, because as this post has stated, we are overly deep there. We have Bergeron/Allen/Greene waiting for spots on defense, and Deslauriers is our goalie to be...

 
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