HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Barry Trotz's tenure as Caps coach (RS: Healthy; Playoff: 2nd Round Exititis)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-13-2014, 01:25 PM
  #76
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,794
vCash: 500
I wonder if the heavier practice has anything to do with Chimera's downturn. He's no spring chicken anymore.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
11-13-2014, 01:40 PM
  #77
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Happy now?
 
NobodyBeatsTheWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The Burbs
Posts: 22,460
vCash: 500
I think Chimera's stone hands and low hockey sesne just lead to him being a really streaky player. We've seen these bad stretches from him before. I've seen nothing to indicate he's lost anything in his skating.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz is offline  
Old
11-13-2014, 02:35 PM
  #78
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I think Chimera's stone hands and low hockey sesne just lead to him being a really streaky player. We've seen these bad stretches from him before. I've seen nothing to indicate he's lost anything in his skating.
Fair points. It was more a thought exerceise on my part to see if any correlation exists between the harder practices and older players being gassed. I agree that it's largely been more stupid than lazy or slow on Chimera's part.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
11-14-2014, 07:56 AM
  #79
Raikkonen
In GMBT we trust
 
Raikkonen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 6,552
vCash: 500
Fehr-Kuznetsov sounds like good skill combo for the 4th line, right? Trotz doesn't like to depend on both

Raikkonen is offline  
Old
11-14-2014, 08:40 AM
  #80
RandyHolt
Registered Loser
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 30,068
vCash: 50
Trotz does seem to like Chimera. But if you don't see Chimera and that smooth skating stride watching him glide past defensemen, I think he is injured. Speed is his game.

Brooks spoke about Chimera 2 years ago, when he had an off year. Brooks basically said fans don't know dick and that he was injured. Anytime a player is not doing what they always do, there is a reason and its usually injury (well, now that Oates is gone).

Overall I have been impressed with Trotz. We actually have some semblance of a respectable looking offense. Including ES shooting and passing - actual plays. We look like an NHL team again.

RandyHolt is offline  
Old
11-14-2014, 08:53 AM
  #81
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,027
vCash: 500
I'm not worried about Chimera. He will get his. Just slumping a bit right now.

Agreed on the Caps looking like a real team.

More damning information about Oates.

BobRouse is offline  
Old
11-14-2014, 09:03 AM
  #82
Hivemind
We're Touched
 
Hivemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 24,794
vCash: 500
Chimera still looks just as fast. He's never been a glide player, but rather a straight-ahead burst player. He still has that. If he's injured, it hasn't impacted his skating. He's making dumb decisions and he's not following the puck well.

Hivemind is offline  
Old
11-16-2014, 02:35 PM
  #83
RaindanceMaggie
Registered User
 
RaindanceMaggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 589
vCash: 500
Meh, I don't know when people will finally get that our depth is amongst the worst in the league.

RaindanceMaggie is offline  
Old
11-17-2014, 07:01 AM
  #84
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
which depth are you talking about being among the worst? ward, kuz, chimera? Alzner, Green, Schmidt, Orlov?

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 08:14 AM
  #85
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Well we're kind of back to the "will Trotz grind this team's offense to a halt with his style" thing, aren't we? How much time do we give this before we say "bleh"?

I wasn't sure about Trotz and though I liked a lot of what he said early on, at least compared to the Adam Oates Denial Show, but I'm having the same doubts I had prior to his hiring.

Lavi has the 5th best team in the league in Nashville now (Caps are 19th). I can't help but wonder what he'd have done with this group, as he was my top choice.

I'm not giving up totally on Trotz yet, and I'm trying to avoid becoming one of the frothing masses who shriek over every real or imagined injustice or error, but I'm concerned about a lot of what I'm seeing.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 08:28 AM
  #86
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
I mentioned elsewhere that ovechkin has scored 4 goals in only 3 games of the last 16. the caps have decent secondary scoring. we all know that the caps are going nowhere with a 20 goal scoring lead scorer. that is where they have been for 16 games. and struggling.

is that trotz? might be. consider that they have Johansson and Ward scoring at a 30 goal pace and chipping in with some regularity. its hard to believe that with that, the team isn't scoring. but they arent

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 08:52 AM
  #87
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I mentioned elsewhere that ovechkin has scored 4 goals in only 3 games of the last 16. the caps have decent secondary scoring. we all know that the caps are going nowhere with a 20 goal scoring lead scorer. that is where they have been for 16 games. and struggling.

is that trotz? might be. consider that they have Johansson and Ward scoring at a 30 goal pace and chipping in with some regularity. its hard to believe that with that, the team isn't scoring. but they arent
Mojo had 2 of his 8 goals against slumping Columbus and had no points and -2 in the 4 games prior to last night, with just 5 shots registered (4 of which were vs NJ). Against Buffalo he managed 4 shots in a shooting gallery game, and got an assist on the only goal of the night, which was a PP slapper from Niskanen that deflected off a Sabre. Mojo has clearly cooled off, as has the entire 2nd line.

Ward has 1 goal and 1 assist in his last 7 games.

Yes, Ovechkin needs to get going but I don't think that addresses the team-wide issues, including culture and roster vs system.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Ovie's scoring is down during a period where the Caps simply aren't getting many PPs. And one way you draw penalties is by pressuring the other team near their goal rather than taking perimeter shots and allowing rebounds to be cleared.

I think Trotz got some buy-in during the first few weeks and then for some reason it fizzled out and old habits took over. BT is fighting years of inertia.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 10:30 AM
  #88
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
might be. 20-25 goal scorers are 5 goals per every 20 games. so there has to be quiet times. which brings us back to ovechkin. the caps need him to score 10 goals in every 20 on average to compete.

hell...it might be trotz. when v Colorado I saw Ovechkin battling Duchene from the corner to the front of the Caps net, I was thinking...wow...wings playing defense in their own corner. I am not sure how you rush the puck from that deep in your own zone.

if green is out any period of time, the defense to offense transition is going to get worse, not better.

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 10:54 AM
  #89
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
might be. 20-25 goal scorers are 5 goals per every 20 games. so there has to be quiet times. which brings us back to ovechkin. the caps need him to score 10 goals in every 20 on average to compete.

hell...it might be trotz. when v Colorado I saw Ovechkin battling Duchene from the corner to the front of the Caps net, I was thinking...wow...wings playing defense in their own corner. I am not sure how you rush the puck from that deep in your own zone.

if green is out any period of time, the defense to offense transition is going to get worse, not better.
Don't forget Brouwer has been a 20 goal scorer exactly two times in his career, with last year's PP goal festival as one of them. At least Ward has shown some even strength scoring ability out of all in the group.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 11:59 AM
  #90
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Don't forget Brouwer has been a 20 goal scorer exactly two times in his career.
that's kind of an overuse of a technicality. He scored 19 in a 48 game season before last season's 25. right? his previous totals were 18, 17 and 22. So he averages right around 20 per season 5 straight seasons and is on a 20 goal pace at present.

its funny how you can spin something so well to make a guy that is consistant over 5 season plus run look like a flash in the pan.

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 12:06 PM
  #91
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
that's kind of an overuse of a technicality. He scored 19 in a 48 game season before last season's 25. right? his previous totals were 18, 17 and 22. So he averages right around 20 per season 5 straight seasons and is on a 20 goal pace at present.

its funny how you can spin something so well to make a guy that is consistant over 5 season plus run look like a flash in the pan.
No, it's not overuse unless constantly saying "20 goal scorer" and "20 goal scorers don't grow on trees" are overuses of technicalities. You can't have it both ways here. Either you round the guy up to 20 and do it for everyone else in the league and THEN look at the distribution, or you go by the numbers as they are.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 12:10 PM
  #92
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Especially when talking about values on lines with a guy that scored half his goals on the PP in the slot.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 02:17 PM
  #93
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
No, it's not overuse unless constantly saying "20 goal scorer" and "20 goal scorers don't grow on trees" are overuses of technicalities. You can't have it both ways here. Either you round the guy up to 20 and do it for everyone else in the league and THEN look at the distribution, or you go by the numbers as they are.
the guy scored 19 goals in a 48 games season. he didn't score 19 goals in 48 games of a 82 game schedule. if you want to say that's the same as scoring 19 goals in a 82 game season, that's your right, but I don't see the logic there.

txpd is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 02:25 PM
  #94
g00n
Global Moderator
♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
 
g00n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 16,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the guy scored 19 goals in a 48 games season. he didn't score 19 goals in 48 games of a 82 game schedule. if you want to say that's the same as scoring 19 goals in a 82 game season, that's your right, but I don't see the logic there.
And when someone's stats are too low for that shortened season, what typically happens? The stats get thrown out. If you want to take the 2 seasons under Oates where TB was a PP goal scorer and make an argument that he's a top 6 scoring threat based on that, you go right ahead. I will continue to disagree.

g00n is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 03:04 PM
  #95
Langway
\_(ツ)_/
 
Langway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 25,145
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Well we're kind of back to the "will Trotz grind this team's offense to a halt with his style" thing, aren't we? How much time do we give this before we say "bleh"?
I'm already pretty disinterested. It's really hard to respect their technique/attention to detail and, unlike in the past, the entertainment value based on sheer skill level is declining. It's frustrating because I'm pretty certain that on a team with better puck movement and more consistency a guy like Burakovsky could be blossoming. (To say nothing of how much more you know Kuznetsov could do if there was an established pace to where overall there's more room for everyone...)

If the answer is 'LOLIDK drive the net!' then they're likely to reach a point where trades are needed sooner than later. If scoring lines can't capably be constructed--and it's looking that way for a number of reasons--then I don't know how this team realistically gets on a roll.

They're very fortunate to be in a division where they can play as poorly with the puck and still be in playoff position, although I've got to believe NYR will get going at the very least.

Langway is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 03:53 PM
  #96
BrooklynCapsFan
Registered User
 
BrooklynCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 18,216
vCash: 500
Who do you think has more rope?

Trotz or the core?

They're forcing the issue.

BrooklynCapsFan is offline  
Old
11-23-2014, 05:01 PM
  #97
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Who do you think has more rope?

Trotz or the core?

They're forcing the issue.
who's the core? Trotz has more rope than Carlson and Alzner and less rope than Ovechkin and Backstrom very likely. Who among those players is the trend setter?

txpd is offline  
Old
11-24-2014, 07:34 AM
  #98
Pigskin
Registered User
 
Pigskin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Well we're kind of back to the "will Trotz grind this team's offense to a halt with his style" thing, aren't we? How much time do we give this before we say "bleh"?

I wasn't sure about Trotz and though I liked a lot of what he said early on, at least compared to the Adam Oates Denial Show, but I'm having the same doubts I had prior to his hiring.

Lavi has the 5th best team in the league in Nashville now (Caps are 19th). I can't help but wonder what he'd have done with this group, as he was my top choice.

I'm not giving up totally on Trotz yet, and I'm trying to avoid becoming one of the frothing masses who shriek over every real or imagined injustice or error, but I'm concerned about a lot of what I'm seeing.
exactamundo

been thinking Lavi was a better fit since the search for a new coach began

you have the crowd that crow "that's how you win SC's" ... I don't subscribe and can only see our play becoming more boring than it currently is to watch

Pigskin is offline  
Old
11-24-2014, 10:22 AM
  #99
ChibiPooky
Yay hockey!
 
ChibiPooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fairfax, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 11,584
vCash: 500
The Capitals are at T-12th in goals per game, and 14th in shots per game. They're 4th in shots against per game and 14th in goals against per game.

Opponents are converting at a better rate (which is expected due to the poor goaltending over the first 10ish games).

Only two teams have both a better SF/60 and SA/60 (San Jose and Minnesota) than the Caps. They have the 5th best raw shot differential in the league, and the fourth best percentagewise (actual shots on goal, not shot attempts).

Middle-of-the-pack offense and excellent defense. That tells me we can expect a lot of tight, low-scoring games. They need to figure out how to win those.

__________________
"This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. we are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion."
ChibiPooky is offline  
Old
11-24-2014, 10:36 AM
  #100
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 51,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
The Capitals are at T-12th in goals per game, and 14th in shots per game. They're 4th in shots against per game and 14th in goals against per game.

Opponents are converting at a better rate (which is expected due to the poor goaltending over the first 10ish games).

Only two teams have both a better SF/60 and SA/60 (San Jose and Minnesota) than the Caps. They have the 5th best raw shot differential in the league, and the fourth best percentagewise (actual shots on goal, not shot attempts).

Middle-of-the-pack offense and excellent defense. That tells me we can expect a lot of tight, low-scoring games. They need to figure out how to win those.
you can make a case that the fundamental trotz game is working and that better goaltending and better finishing rate wil create the results desired. maybe patience is the key.

the numbers say the goaltending is coming around. they need to close their chances better and need to draw more penalties. 1 pp per game isn't good and is a sign of another problem

txpd is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:28 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.