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Was Hossa For Heatley The Best Deal Out There?

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Old
08-31-2005, 05:26 PM
  #1
ginnungagap
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Was Hossa For Heatley The Best Deal Out There?

Before Heatley went to Ottawa I posted that if Heatley could possibly be dealt that I thought a Heatley for Datsyuk+ trade might work. How do Atlanta fans (or anybody else) like the deal that did happen? Hossa is a great player, and better than Datsyuk at this time, but with no superstar center in Atlanta I can't help but think that Datsyuk might have been a better fit. To me, Datsyuk and Kovalchuk probably would have had the edge on being the most exciting combo in the NHL this year- it's never a bad idea to combine one of the best playmakers in the game with one of the best shooters. Pure speculation, maybe they hate each other, but it seems like getting a fellow Russian with elite playmaking ability might have been some consolation (or maybe even a positive?) to Kovalchuk and warm up his contract negotiations too.

By the way I'm really not going out of my way to get flamed- just asking a honest question.


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08-31-2005, 05:27 PM
  #2
Egil
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Hossa is a MUCH, MUCH better player than Datsuk.

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08-31-2005, 05:29 PM
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TexSen
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Originally Posted by Egil
Hossa is a MUCH, MUCH better player than Datsuk.
Ditto

One pretty goal does not a superstar make.

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08-31-2005, 05:34 PM
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I think this was the best deal for both teams that was plausible. Pretty fair from all angles. I don't see Datsyuk doing any more for ATL than what Hossa will do.

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08-31-2005, 05:34 PM
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ginnungagap
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I definitely agree that Hossa is a better player than Datsyuk. I'm thinking any deal would have had to have been something along the lines of at least Datsyuk and Fischer or Datsyuk and Legace and more for Heatley. That might even be light on Detroit's end but that's not really what I'm looking for- just curious if Atlanta would have rather have seen Datysuk or a star center come back their way to fill a need.

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08-31-2005, 05:36 PM
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Savard could be a super-star if he puts up numbers like he did last season and manages to stay off the IR. Having Holik around might just help Savard stay a little healthier, because Savard will no longer be the best face-off man on the team and therefor won't be asked to take so many defensive zones draws... its a theory.

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Old
08-31-2005, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginnungagap
I definitely agree that Hossa is a better player than Datsyuk. I'm thinking any deal would have had to have been something along the lines of at least Datsyuk and Fischer or Datsyuk and Legace and more for Heatley. That might even be light on Detroit's end but that's not really what I'm looking for- just curious if Atlanta would have rather have seen Datysuk or a star center come back their way to fill a need.
Quality always beats quantity

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08-31-2005, 05:41 PM
  #8
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Oh, I also think that Hossa was the best available solution. I am not too crazy about de Vries (Yet), mostly because it was his salary cap hit that pushed us out of the Peter Bondra/ added RW that we were/are still needing sweepstakes. It also leaves us in a little bit of a bind since Nurminen had to retire and now we have to look for a "cheap" alternative to backup our injury prone, yet steller "prospect" Lehtonen.

On a side note, finding out about Heatley and Nurminen on the same day kinda sucked.

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Old
08-31-2005, 05:51 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexSen
Ditto

One pretty goal does not a superstar make.
yeah, but it was one heck of a goal !

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08-31-2005, 05:57 PM
  #10
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Hossa is so much more valuable than Datsyuk they are not in the same ballpark.

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08-31-2005, 06:06 PM
  #11
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Hossa is a much purer scorer.

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Old
08-31-2005, 06:14 PM
  #12
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Agreed with most previous posts.

Hossa is a superstar, and wanted to be paid like a superstar. Datsyuk has had one good season and two so-so seasons. He's not a superstar, nor is he " one of the best playmakers in the league" as stated before. Hopefully he gets better with time, but lets face it: playing with Brett Hull as your winger will make anyone look like a great playmaker.

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08-31-2005, 06:19 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup
Agreed with most previous posts.

Hossa is a superstar, and wanted to be paid like a superstar. Datsyuk has had one good season and two so-so seasons. He's not a superstar, nor is he " one of the best playmakers in the league" as stated before. Hopefully he gets better with time, but lets face it: playing with Brett Hull as your winger will make anyone look like a great playmaker.
This cliche is getting REALLY tiresome. Sure it was true during Datsyuk's rookie season, but anyone who actually follows the Wings (as opposed to just reading the roster sheet) knows that Hull was really quite bad last year as he constantly tried to force things in searching for his milestone goals. If anything Hull benefited from playing with Datsyuk last year, not the other way round.

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Old
08-31-2005, 06:36 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginnungagap
I definitely agree that Hossa is a better player than Datsyuk. I'm thinking any deal would have had to have been something along the lines of at least Datsyuk and Fischer or Datsyuk and Legace and more for Heatley. That might even be light on Detroit's end but that's not really what I'm looking for- just curious if Atlanta would have rather have seen Datysuk or a star center come back their way to fill a need.
I think it's funny to read all of the "Hossa >>>>> Datsyuk" comments.

That wasn't gin's point, yes, we know that Hossa is a better player. Gin is simply suggesting that Datsyuk would have made a great center for Kovalchuk, they would probably have had excellent chemistry and Atlanta would have ended up with extras as well. Who knows what it would have taken? Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Fischer? Probably overpayment for Heatley, but you get the idea. Now Savard centers Zetterberg and Datsyuk centers Kovalchuk.

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08-31-2005, 06:40 PM
  #15
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Hossa is better and a little younger to boot. ATL made out fine.

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08-31-2005, 06:51 PM
  #16
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am i mistaken....or don't datsyuk and kovalchuk play on the same line in international play? iirc. but if they dont....ignore this post...if this is true though, even though hossas a better player, datsyuk and kovalchuk-something we know has chemistry-could do wonders.

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08-31-2005, 07:06 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by name
I think it's funny to read all of the "Hossa >>>>> Datsyuk" comments.

That wasn't gin's point, yes, we know that Hossa is a better player. Gin is simply suggesting that Datsyuk would have made a great center for Kovalchuk, they would probably have had excellent chemistry and Atlanta would have ended up with extras as well. Who knows what it would have taken? Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Fischer? Probably overpayment for Heatley, but you get the idea. Now Savard centers Zetterberg and Datsyuk centers Kovalchuk.
Aren't you making a pretty big leap by adding Zetterburg and Fischer to the deal?

IMO, one incredible line doesn't make a hockey team. It's real hard to concentrate that much of your salary cap $'s (assuming Datsyuk get's anything remotely close to what he's asking) on one great offensive line. Not saying you couldn't do it, but it's pretty difficult to see how that would work out.

As I understand the new CBA, if Datysuk doesn't sign this year, he's a UFA next year (> 27 YO)? That gives him some pretty strong leverage to get paid right now.

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08-31-2005, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by #37
Oh, I also think that Hossa was the best available solution. I am not too crazy about de Vries (Yet), mostly because it was his salary cap hit that pushed us out of the Peter Bondra/ added RW that we were/are still needing sweepstakes. It also leaves us in a little bit of a bind since Nurminen had to retire and now we have to look for a "cheap" alternative to backup our injury prone, yet steller "prospect" Lehtonen.

On a side note, finding out about Heatley and Nurminen on the same day kinda sucked.
And why is Lehtonen injury prone again?

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08-31-2005, 07:08 PM
  #19
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Considering Atlanta's situation, of fairly shallow scoring depth, I can see why they'd have preferred Hossa. Hossa, much more so that Datsyuk, can make a line score all by himself. It's one of the things about goal scorers vs. play makers, goal scorers are better at doing it themself.

On the other hand, if Atlanta had the depth to ice a decent second line, I could see them maybe leaning towards Datsyuk (though, the + would have to be someone more significant than DeVries) as I think a top line with Kovalchuk on it would benefit more from a playmaker than another goal scorer. Nothing against Hossa's passing game, but he's not as gifted a playmaker as Datsyuk. That's my opinion, anyway.

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Old
08-31-2005, 07:16 PM
  #20
ginnungagap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens4Cup
Agreed with most previous posts.
Hopefully he gets better with time, but lets face it: playing with Brett Hull as your winger will make anyone look like a great playmaker.
Maybe ten years ago. That theory is going to be severely tested this year in Phoenix- I think Wayne better hit the ice because he's the only one who will be able to dangle long enough to wait for Hull to get into the offensive zone.

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Old
08-31-2005, 07:21 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Aren't you making a pretty big leap by adding Zetterburg and Fischer to the deal?

IMO, one incredible line doesn't make a hockey team. It's real hard to concentrate that much of your salary cap $'s (assuming Datsyuk get's anything remotely close to what he's asking) on one great offensive line. Not saying you couldn't do it, but it's pretty difficult to see how that would work out.

As I understand the new CBA, if Datysuk doesn't sign this year, he's a UFA next year (> 27 YO)? That gives him some pretty strong leverage to get paid right now.
I was just trying to emphasize the point that nobody was trying to say that Datsyuk is equal to Hossa. Whas Hossa for Heatley the best deal? The poster mentioned that maybe Datsyuk with extras would have been better and I filled in an extra that would have made the deal doable.

You're right, one incredible line does not make a team, that's why Datsyuk + Zetterberg may have been better than Hossa. 2 pretty damned good player > 1 fricken' beast? I'm not sure. (I love Hossa btw for what it's worth)

Your point about Datsyuk's salary demands is a good one, without knowing what he'll sign for, trying to talk trades involving him is pretty pointless. That said, I'll stop talking about it.

How about Brad Richards + .. Oh forget it..

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08-31-2005, 07:45 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakazoid
And why is Lehtonen injury prone again?
Because he has gotten hurt every season he has been in NA? Lots of groin issues, he fell and hit his head and got a concussion, and I think there was a Hip plexor. Hopefully he has it under control by now.... Well, he had 57 starts last year, if he can do that again I will be overjoyed.

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Old
08-31-2005, 08:26 PM
  #23
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The question should be:

Was Heatley the best thing out there for Hossa !!!!!!!!


Hossa right now >>>>>> Heatley.........

Atlanta is laughing right now.........and they also got a 5-6th defenseman in Devries

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Old
08-31-2005, 08:35 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Rolexmaster
Atlanta is laughing right now

Really? Hossa was a fantastic player and it was sad to see him go but he was asking for too much money. Now we can resign both Redden and Chara and we got an amazing player.

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Old
08-31-2005, 09:40 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by SENSational
Really? Hossa was a fantastic player and it was sad to see him go but he was asking for too much money. Now we can resign both Redden and Chara and we got an amazing player.
EXACTLY!

That's the whole point. In the larger picture Ottawa makes out like thieves for THEIR purposes. Without this deal Ottawa is looking at keeping Hossa but losing one of their most key pieces.

What Atlanta gets out of this is irrelevant for Ottawa. Ottawa got what they wanted in return, plus frees up money to keep a key part of their defensive corps.

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