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Old
06-03-2014, 01:03 PM
  #51
GoneFullHextall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Corey Crawford didn't even become an NHL starter till he was 25.

Just imagine what his career SV% would be if he was made the Chicago starter at age 21 instead of spending five seasons developing in the AHL.
I hope people remember this 2 or 3 years from now if Stolarz is still in the AHL.
goaltending prospects require patience. it took Rask a few years to figure it out as well.

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06-03-2014, 01:05 PM
  #52
The Rage Kage
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Two starting goalies had a gaa of below 2 this playoffs, rask and mason

In all seriousness though, mason is good, but not rask good

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06-03-2014, 01:16 PM
  #53
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What would teams be willing to trade for Grossman?

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Old
06-03-2014, 01:16 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by The Rage Kage View Post
Two starting goalies had a gaa of below 2 this playoffs, rask and mason

In all seriousness though, mason is good, but not rask good
who is suggesting Mason is as good as Rask?

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06-03-2014, 01:22 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
who is suggesting Mason is as good as Rask?
nobody said mason was as good as rask

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Old
06-03-2014, 01:27 PM
  #56
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Exactly. I don't expect anyone to publish that the Flyers have finally figured it out with Mason and he'll be great as their #1 for years to come, but at least acknowledge his recent success as a hopeful step in the right direction.
i assume everybody missed this part of his Mason paragraph

"But, in 68 games with the Flyers, Mason has a .920 save percentage. His real value may be some point in between, but having a point in between counts as progress."

He's just saying that Mason may regress a bit given how his career has gone up to this point, that's all. Honestly I think that is fair, because he could very well regress or he could also continue to play well. Obviously we hope for the latter, but in the case he does regress don't be all that surprised.

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06-03-2014, 01:34 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Schmidty324 View Post
i assume everybody missed this part of his Mason paragraph

"But, in 68 games with the Flyers, Mason has a .920 save percentage. His real value may be some point in between, but having a point in between counts as progress."

He's just saying that Mason may regress a bit given how his career has gone up to this point, that's all. Honestly I think that is fair, because he could very well regress or he could also continue to play well. Obviously we hope for the latter, but in the case he does regress don't be all that surprised.
All depends on the D in front of him is my guess..a great goalie usually has a solid D as well, they go hand in hand. Mason did extremely well considering the bunch of slow morons the Flyers have on D this past season.

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06-03-2014, 01:50 PM
  #58
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Just ask. I have all the answers.

Trade Vinny and Grossman away. For picks.
Sign Iginla 1-2 year to play with G.
Sign Timonen for 1y.
Sign/trade for defender to play with Coburn. Orpik/Niskanen/Fayne/Hainsey.
Sign one faceoffguy with hits(Boyle/Komarov/Ott), one defensive winger with hits(Ott/Komarov).


Iginla-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read
Ott-Boyle-Rinaldo
Rosehill

Orpik-Coburn
Streit-MacDonald
Schenn-Timonen

Mason
Emery

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06-03-2014, 01:51 PM
  #59
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Here is a list of the halfway decent starting goaltenders born after 1980 and the age in which they became a starter:

Tuukka Rask (25)
Semyon Varlamov (23) > struggled slightly until 25
Carey Price (21) > struggled until 23
Ben Bishop (27)
Sergei Bobrovsky (22) > struggled until 24
Jonathan Bernier (25)
Cory Schneider (28) > still not a starter
Henrik Lundqvist (23)
Kari Lehtonen (23) > struggled until 27
Ryan Miller (25/26)
Corey Crawford (26)
Jonathan Quick (23)
Marc Andre Fleury (21) > struggled indefinitely
Mike Smith (26) > struggled until 29
Braden Holtby (23) > still struggling
Craig Anderson (28)
Jimmy Howard (25)

Steve Mason (20) > struggled until 25


As you can see, almost all the goalies thrown into the fire before the age of 25 had some significant issues to overcome before they became reliable starters. Mason was the youngest starter in the post lockout era. Yeah, he had his issues in CBJ, but the moral here is that goalie performances before 24/25 don't mean ****. The only two guys who were consistently successful before 25 are...surprise, surprise...Quick and Lundqvist.

Like I said on the last page, Mason's career is just starting now. As far as I'm concerned, his slate is and should be the same as Bernier's, Schneider's, and Bishop's. The only argument you can make against him is that maybe his ultimate potential was forever altered by his time in Columbus. However, if you look at the goalies above, many of their "issues" disappeared as soon as they left the team they were on. For no player is the "change of scenery" more powerful than for a struggling, young goaltender.

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06-03-2014, 01:52 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rage Kage View Post
Two starting goalies had a gaa of below 2 this playoffs, rask and mason

In all seriousness though, mason is good, but not rask good
Nobody said he's Rask. But the fact that there is GIANT QUESTION MARK in net is just a false redundant statement.

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06-03-2014, 02:37 PM
  #61
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Say for some reason Rick Nash is bought out and would sign for like 4.5M-5M. Flyers sign him. Angry? Sad? Indifferent?

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Old
06-03-2014, 02:43 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Say for some reason Rick Nash is bought out and would sign for like 4.5M-5M. Flyers sign him. Angry? Sad? Indifferent?
As long as Lecavalier is gone, I'd be pumped. Nash gets trashed around here, but he's still a 30+ guy. For 4.5m? I take that all day long. He hasn't been putting up the stats this postseason, but he's been insanely snakebitten. And for 4.5, you're not paying him to be a dynamite player.

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06-03-2014, 02:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Say for some reason Rick Nash is bought out and would sign for like 4.5M-5M. Flyers sign him. Angry? Sad? Indifferent?
I doubt the Rangers would buy out Nash because he's still young and provides some leadership to the team. My guess is Richards is the one to buyout because he's signed to 2020, he's 34yrs old and has a cap hit of 6.7mil a year with a NMC. Who knows though, maybe the Rangers buyout both guys...it would free up over 14mil in cap space. For 4.5mil a yr I would take Nash.

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Old
06-03-2014, 02:48 PM
  #64
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4.5M is definitely too low. He'd easily get at least 6 I would think. If they signed him for ~6m a year for 3 years I'd be good with it.

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06-03-2014, 03:28 PM
  #65
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What about a guy like Patrick Sharp? There have been a few voices in Chi-town that think he may be the odd man out with Toews and Kane's contracts due next season. Wonder how true the rumors are...

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Old
06-03-2014, 03:30 PM
  #66
Schmidty324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Here is a list of the halfway decent starting goaltenders born after 1980 and the age in which they became a starter:

Tuukka Rask (25)
Semyon Varlamov (23) > struggled slightly until 25
Carey Price (21) > struggled until 23
Ben Bishop (27)
Sergei Bobrovsky (22) > struggled until 24
Jonathan Bernier (25)
Cory Schneider (28) > still not a starter
Henrik Lundqvist (23)
Kari Lehtonen (23) > struggled until 27
Ryan Miller (25/26)
Corey Crawford (26)
Jonathan Quick (23)
Marc Andre Fleury (21) > struggled indefinitely
Mike Smith (26) > struggled until 29
Braden Holtby (23) > still struggling
Craig Anderson (28)
Jimmy Howard (25)

Steve Mason (20) > struggled until 25


As you can see, almost all the goalies thrown into the fire before the age of 25 had some significant issues to overcome before they became reliable starters. Mason was the youngest starter in the post lockout era. Yeah, he had his issues in CBJ, but the moral here is that goalie performances before 24/25 don't mean ****. The only two guys who were consistently successful before 25 are...surprise, surprise...Quick and Lundqvist.

Like I said on the last page, Mason's career is just starting now. As far as I'm concerned, his slate is and should be the same as Bernier's, Schneider's, and Bishop's. The only argument you can make against him is that maybe his ultimate potential was forever altered by his time in Columbus. However, if you look at the goalies above, many of their "issues" disappeared as soon as they left the team they were on. For no player is the "change of scenery" more powerful than for a struggling, young goaltender.
And the link in the article shows just how bad Mason's numbers were(and includes a good amount those goalies you mentioned). There's struggling and then there's having the worst numbers. Again Mason could very well continue to turn it around and if that means just a league wide average save% then it's still an improvement for him and it would be just fine for the team. But i would still look into Montoya/Greiss to push him a bit.

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Old
06-03-2014, 03:34 PM
  #67
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Schneider is considered the Devils starter...Marty was backup.
I see Schneider still struggles though.

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06-03-2014, 04:08 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmidty324 View Post
And the link in the article shows just how bad Mason's numbers were(and includes a good amount those goalies you mentioned). There's struggling and then there's having the worst numbers. Again Mason could very well continue to turn it around and if that means just a league wide average save% then it's still an improvement for him and it would be just fine for the team. But i would still look into Montoya/Greiss to push him a bit.
True, but let's take the guys I listed that struggled:

Varlamov -- Only had one (lockout shortened) year of starting behind a basement team (2012-13)
Price -- Only had one year of starting behind a basement team (2011-12)
Bobrovsky -- Never played on a truly bad team
Lehtonen -- Played two years starting for basement teams (2007-08 and 2008-09)
Fleury -- Only had one year of starting behind a basement team (2005-06)
Smith -- Split time on two bad TBL teams (2008-09 and 2009-10)
Holtby -- Never played on a truly bad team

Mason -- Started behind basement quality teams in 2009-10, 2010-11, and 2011-12


None of the other guys went through what Mason went through. He played three consecutive years for terrible teams. The only comparable is Kari Lehtonen who turned things around after he went to Dallas. So all these guys naturally did better. I'm not absolving Mason of blame. He was terrible in Columbus, but goalies younger than 25 should be expected to struggle as a rule...then when you compound those struggles with chronically bad support, you're going to end up with what happened here.

That said, I agree with you. We need a competent backup for support next season. I'm all for Montoya/Greiss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Schneider is considered the Devils starter...Marty was backup.
I see Schneider still struggles though.
He is now, but he only played about six games more than Brodeur last year. That was a 1a/1b situation. That shouldn't have been the case, but it was.

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Old
06-03-2014, 04:34 PM
  #69
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Someone I think actually might surprise people is Max Patch up in Montreal. I think he might be on the block and have said it before. He has had issues up there and been in the rumor mill before. Also, Scott Melanby followed us for a stretch of 4-6 games early in the season, he was definitely watching somebody in our lineup. Just a player I think could actually hit the rumor mill even after his great season.

I wish there was a list of every player named in the rumor mill this year.


Last edited by Prongo; 06-03-2014 at 04:47 PM..
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Old
06-03-2014, 05:02 PM
  #70
The Rage Kage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
who is suggesting Mason is as good as Rask?
No one, I just wanted people to know I wasn't suggesting that with the stat

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06-03-2014, 05:39 PM
  #71
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Someone I think actually might surprise people is Max Patch up in Montreal. I think he might be on the block and have said it before. He has had issues up there and been in the rumor mill before. Also, Scott Melanby followed us for a stretch of 4-6 games early in the season, he was definitely watching somebody in our lineup. Just a player I think could actually hit the rumor mill even after his great season.

I wish there was a list of every player named in the rumor mill this year.
One of the best goalscorers in the league signed for 5 more years at 4.5 million per on one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference? The cost would and should be astronomical.

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06-03-2014, 05:49 PM
  #72
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I doubt the Rangers would buy out Nash because he's still young and provides some leadership to the team. My guess is Richards is the one to buyout because he's signed to 2020, he's 34yrs old and has a cap hit of 6.7mil a year with a NMC. Who knows though, maybe the Rangers buyout both guys...it would free up over 14mil in cap space. For 4.5mil a yr I would take Nash.
They've already used one of their compliance buyouts on Wade Redden.

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06-03-2014, 05:53 PM
  #73
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One of the best goalscorers in the league signed for 5 more years at 4.5 million per on one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference? The cost would and should be astronomical.
like luke schenn ( cringe)

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06-03-2014, 06:59 PM
  #74
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Just reading that CHI will look to add a center in the off-season. I am sure Kesler will beat the top of the list. They would likely move some blue line vet to allow a prospect to step up.

Vinny (4.5M for 4 yrs) + pick

for

Oduya (3M for 2 years)

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06-03-2014, 07:37 PM
  #75
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What about a guy like Patrick Sharp? There have been a few voices in Chi-town that think he may be the odd man out with Toews and Kane's contracts due next season. Wonder how true the rumors are...
If Sharp is on the trade market, he will command an enormous return. And we wouldn't be able to dump contracts in a trade for him. Chicago would ask for Couturier. At the very least it would take cheap, young prospects and #1 picks.

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