HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kane and Toews extensions

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-13-2014, 12:01 AM
  #101
canucks95
Registered User
 
canucks95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver
Country: Portugal
Posts: 424
vCash: 500
From an outside prospective, I'd guess 8 years x 8.5M per.

canucks95 is offline  
Old
06-13-2014, 01:58 AM
  #102
Taze em
Registered User
 
Taze em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,605
vCash: 500
Claude Giroux- Contract signed 2014 8.25x8
Evgeni Malkin- Contract signed 2014 9.5x8
Phil Kessel- Contract signed 2014 8x8

It will be 8.5-9, Kane will want it to be 88 and Toews will tag along. 8.8x8, lock it in.

Taze em is offline  
Old
06-13-2014, 02:02 AM
  #103
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,154
vCash: 500
8 years 8.8 for them both would be awesome. or 88 years 8.8 for kane and 191 years 9.19 for toews

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
06-13-2014, 05:32 AM
  #104
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,248
vCash: 500
sign them now, worry about the Cap later

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
06-13-2014, 12:57 PM
  #105
Sophist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
sign them now, worry about the Cap later
yeah . . Bowman has a long-term plan with probably a dozen contingencies for the situation. The most important thing is having good young (cheap) talent to round out the roster if needed . . .

Guys who are likely to be on the roster this year, and good candidates to move on after this year . .

Oduya (3.3)
Versteeg (2.2) . . . Right there, that's enough to accommodate that 8.8 guess. Still have to make room for Saad contract.

Other candidates to move on . . .

Bickell (4.0)
Leddy (2.7)

and if push comes to shove:

Sharp or Seabrooke. It would help to see a lot of development from Saad, TT, Morin, etc to feel good about moving Sharp. And Johns, Clendenning, Runblad would need to step up to make it easy to give up Leddy or Seabrooke.

Sophist is offline  
Old
06-14-2014, 10:35 PM
  #106
Hawksfan2828
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 9,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
For comps all of these extensions kick in next year one year before the Kane and Toews extepnsions:

Malkin (27) 8 years at 9.5
Giroux (26) 8 years at 8.275
Kessel (26) 8 years at 8.00
Bergeron (28) 8 years at 6.5

These contracts started this season, 2 years before the Kane and Toews extensions

Crosby (26) 12 years at 8.7
Perry (29) 8 years at 8.625
Getzlaf (29) 8 years at 8.25


If I'm Bowman, I'm really leaning on those Kessel and Giroux deals to try to get them to settle in at 8.25-8.5 for 8 years. That would be an absolute bargain for the Hawks. I tend to think they probably edge up closer near 9 though.
They get 9 each at 8 years.

That is only 2.25 more than what they're making presently. So the Hawks need 4.5 million in cap space to deal with that.

Kinda makes the Bickell move look highly over-anticipated and stupid doesn't it?

I suppose Bickell and Rozy would be the perfect ones to go to make those extensions happen?

Sorry but trading Kris Versteeg, Oduya etc is not the answer...

Hawksfan2828 is online now  
Old
06-14-2014, 11:26 PM
  #107
Wasted Years
Where Eagles Dare
 
Wasted Years's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Paschendale
Country: United States
Posts: 11,893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
They get 9 each at 8 years.

That is only 2.25 more than what they're making presently. So the Hawks need 4.5 million in cap space to deal with that.

Kinda makes the Bickell move look highly over-anticipated and stupid doesn't it?

I suppose Bickell and Rozy would be the perfect ones to go to make those extensions happen?

Sorry but trading Kris Versteeg, Oduya etc is not the answer...
Oduya walks after next year so he isn't in the mix. It will be other pieces.

Wasted Years is offline  
Old
06-14-2014, 11:36 PM
  #108
Sophist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 31
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
They get 9 each at 8 years.

. . . .

Sorry but trading Kris Versteeg, Oduya etc is not the answer...
6.3 to 9 is exactly 5.4 needed to fit those salaries in.

Oduya & Versteeg = 5.75. Letting Oduya walk and finding a taker for Versteeg works out pretty close to exactly . . .

Sophist is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 12:19 AM
  #109
hisgirlfriday
Moderator
 
hisgirlfriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 13,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
For comps all of these extensions kick in next year one year before the Kane and Toews extepnsions:

Malkin (27) 8 years at 9.5
Giroux (26) 8 years at 8.275
Kessel (26) 8 years at 8.00
Bergeron (28) 8 years at 6.5

These contracts started this season, 2 years before the Kane and Toews extensions

Crosby (26) 12 years at 8.7
Perry (29) 8 years at 8.625
Getzlaf (29) 8 years at 8.25


If I'm Bowman, I'm really leaning on those Kessel and Giroux deals to try to get them to settle in at 8.25-8.5 for 8 years. That would be an absolute bargain for the Hawks. I tend to think they probably edge up closer near 9 though.
Here's what's scary looking at the Kessel and Giroux old contracts as comparisons for a Toews/Kane deal:

Kessel's cap hit jumped from $5.4 m to $8 m with his 3rd contract. (+2.6m)
Giroux's cap hit jumped from $3.75 m to $8.25 m with his 3rd contract. (+4.5m)

Malkin's contract on the other hand, only had his cap hit going up $700k. Anomaly.

BTW, I don't think Bergeron's contract status is a good comparison because he isn't a comparable player and is on his 4th contract already.

As far as the 2-year-old deals:

Crosby's cap hit went up 0 from the 2nd to 3rd deal. Definitely an anomaly, especially because it was negotiated back when you can sign players to more than 8 years.

Perry's cap hit jumped from $5.325 m to $8.625 m with his 3rd contract. (+3.3 m)
Getzlaf's cap hit jumped from $5.325 m to $8.250 m with his 3rd contract. (+2.925 m)

So in conclusion:

A Kessel jump would put Toews/Kane at $8.9 m.
A Giroux jump would put Toews/Kane at $10.8m.
A Perry jump would put Toews/Kane at $9.6 m.
A Getzlaf jump would put Toews/Kane at $9.225 m.

So any Blackhawks fans expecting these contracts to come in under $9 m cap hits need to start bracing themselves now.

hisgirlfriday is online now  
Old
06-15-2014, 12:25 AM
  #110
Taze em
Registered User
 
Taze em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hisgirlfriday View Post
Here's what's scary looking at the Kessel and Giroux old contracts as comparisons for a Toews/Kane deal:

Kessel's cap hit jumped from $5.4 m to $8 m with his 3rd contract. (+2.6m)
Giroux's cap hit jumped from $3.75 m to $8.25 m with his 3rd contract. (+4.5m)

Malkin's contract on the other hand, only had his cap hit going up $700k. Anomaly.

BTW, I don't think Bergeron's contract status is a good comparison because he isn't a comparable player and is on his 4th contract already.

As far as the 2-year-old deals:

Crosby's cap hit went up 0 from the 2nd to 3rd deal. Definitely an anomaly, especially because it was negotiated back when you can sign players to more than 8 years.

Perry's cap hit jumped from $5.325 m to $8.625 m with his 3rd contract. (+3.3 m)
Getzlaf's cap hit jumped from $5.325 m to $8.250 m with his 3rd contract. (+2.925 m)

So in conclusion:

A Kessel jump would put Toews/Kane at $8.9 m.
A Giroux jump would put Toews/Kane at $10.8m.
A Perry jump would put Toews/Kane at $9.6 m.
A Getzlaf jump would put Toews/Kane at $9.225 m.

So any Blackhawks fans expecting these contracts to come in under $9 m cap hits need to start bracing themselves now.
Your entire premise is flawed. Why would it matter what kind of raise these players got? The only thing that matters is the # of years and and value.

The second deal shouldn't effect the 3rd. Like Giroux... he signed a deal before he was Giroux. Just because he was underpaid on his second deal doesn't mean Stan has to match his raise on the 3rd deal.

Taze em is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 12:43 AM
  #111
hisgirlfriday
Moderator
 
hisgirlfriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 13,567
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taze em View Post
Your entire premise is flawed. Why would it matter what kind of raise these players got? The only thing that matters is the # of years and and value.

The second deal shouldn't effect the 3rd. Like Giroux... he signed a deal before he was Giroux. Just because he was underpaid on his second deal doesn't mean Stan has to match his raise on the 3rd deal.
Players don't just get raises because their play gets better and they become more valuable. They get raises because the salary cap goes up and the best players command the largest percentage of the salary cap, so a bigger cap means a bigger cap hit for these guys.

For the record, I don't think Toews/Kane would get a Giroux-like jump. However, the Giroux jump is perhaps why people like Bob McKenzie were throwing out crazy $11m - $12m type numbers (albeit this was when people were projecting the cap to go up a lot more than is anticipated now).

I have been expecting something along the lines of a $9.5 m cap hit since back in December when McKenzie's comments came up before, and I am expecting it now, especially after just now looking at what happened from the 2nd to 3rd contracts in the Perry/Getzlaf deals (signed just 16 months ago).

hisgirlfriday is online now  
Old
06-15-2014, 12:52 AM
  #112
Taze em
Registered User
 
Taze em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,605
vCash: 500
All I know is Getzlaf and Giroux are considered peers of Toews and they have both signed for 8.25.

Kessel has very similar numbers to Kane and people often debate who is better. He just signed an 8M deal.

Assume the cap goes up 5% and 8 million becomes 8.4. 8.25 becomes 8.66.

That's why my number is 8.8/8.

Taze em is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 12:55 AM
  #113
Gootie
Thug of the Year
 
Gootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chiraq
Country: United States
Posts: 27,014
vCash: 500
What 19+88 and others were making before the new CBA is almost completely irrelevant to what they will make on a new deal.

Gootie is online now  
Old
06-15-2014, 01:11 AM
  #114
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,154
vCash: 500
I know it won't happen, but imagine the meltdown on the mainboards if they sign for like 7.5

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 01:27 AM
  #115
Gootie
Thug of the Year
 
Gootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chiraq
Country: United States
Posts: 27,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
I know it won't happen, but imagine the meltdown on the mainboards if they sign for like 7.5
No matter what they sign for, the main board will complain that the Hawks "overpaid" for them.

Gootie is online now  
Old
06-15-2014, 01:28 AM
  #116
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
 
OhCaptainMyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 7,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
I know it won't happen, but imagine the meltdown on the mainboards if they sign for like 7.5
I would cry tears of joy for years if something like that happened

OhCaptainMyCaptain is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 09:27 AM
  #117
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,248
vCash: 500
they'd say they aren't worth more

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 11:56 AM
  #118
Johnny Hawkey
Registered User
 
Johnny Hawkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
they'd say they aren't worth more
Everybody outside of Chicago are just jealous and ******** they don't have a Toews/Kane. Its their way of showing it.

I enjoy it.

Johnny Hawkey is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 02:12 PM
  #119
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,248
vCash: 500
Any way you spin it, they are all only good because they play with each other.

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
06-15-2014, 07:54 PM
  #120
LarmerSavardSecord
Registered User
 
LarmerSavardSecord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Wicker Park
Posts: 645
vCash: 500
The cap projections are basically the same as last year, so we can use Giroux's deal as the closest comp. Moving it forward a year for inflation (using the same % of cap @5% cap growth) gets us to $8.75m per for a new comp.

Add more awards and team success minus (hometown discount) great team outlook, great city (great fan support, soft media, uber cool place to live), plus Bowman's tendency to not play hardball with key guys, and it's a nice clean $9m * 8 years. Or probably $9.25m per.

That's deserved and workable; their contracts will likely be steals for most of the tenure.

LarmerSavardSecord is offline  
Old
06-16-2014, 06:05 AM
  #121
slappipappi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,930
vCash: 500
Looking at what Toews and Kane will get based on other contracts makes little sense.

They will get whatever they want, more or less.

The expectation is that they will take less than they could actually get to leave room to field a team.

slappipappi is offline  
Old
06-16-2014, 07:11 AM
  #122
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 25,248
vCash: 500
they could ask for 10 million each and would get it in the end...

Bubba88 is offline  
Old
06-16-2014, 07:13 AM
  #123
OhCaptainMyCaptain
Registered User
 
OhCaptainMyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 7,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
they could ask for 10 million each and would get it in the end...
Yup, they could take a pay cut or at least a more workable pay for the team or they could both ask for a huge amount of money, and either way it's understandable.

OhCaptainMyCaptain is offline  
Old
06-16-2014, 11:26 AM
  #124
Blue Liner
Registered User
 
Blue Liner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,068
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhCaptainMyCaptain View Post
Yup, they could take a pay cut or at least a more workable pay for the team or they could both ask for a huge amount of money, and either way it's understandable.
They're not taking a pay cut. A pay cut, by definition, means you're taking less money than you're currently making. People have been saying that a lot. There's a difference between a "hometown discount" and a pay cut. The latter is not going to happen in any universe.

Blue Liner is offline  
Old
06-18-2014, 07:27 AM
  #125
Kevin8se7en
Unregistered User
 
Kevin8se7en's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,533
vCash: 500
Another outside perspective:

I don't see them making more than Crosby, Malkin or Ovie, but getting close to it.

My guess is 8.500 each long term.

Edit:
I guess Kane might go for 8.8 similar to Crosby going for 8.7 (for the jersey number) and Toews would likely get the same deal.

I'd be surprised if they were more than 9.000

Kevin8se7en is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.