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Caps assistant coaches (Forsythe PP/Analytics, Lambert F/PK, Reirden D/PP, Korn G)

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06-06-2014, 06:43 AM
  #26
RandyHolt
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Better? You're right, that's probably not going to happen.
However, the coaching staff (Forsythe or otherwise) will have to work to keep it relevant....
Forsythe is the only one I would consider retained. In the end how he is viewed by Trotz and then the players is all I care about. Vaulting from video guy to PP1 genius.... well all he really did was put Ovi in his favorite spot firing one timers. I imagine teams will shadow Ovi more this year. Is he the only one up to countering it? No.

I am intrigued by a potential mirror of our existing setup, presumed for PP2. Don't tell me there is no left shot one timers on the team. We can also ft Orlov up top which changes the setup a little bit. I also want the screen used as practice for use in the playoffs at ES.

While I do want changes tried but I half hope they fail so the team is forced to win games by sweating at even strength. We may be a better playoff team for it.

Come playoff time, the PP cannot be counted on to win us games. If it happens to, it's a bonus.

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06-06-2014, 07:25 AM
  #27
txpd
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Just because Oates was derp doesn't automatically mean everyone else was non-derp. I doubt Oates was manipulating Johansson's mouth and having him sound clueless in his bench interviews.
that is absolutely true. the idea that Forsythe was good and Johansson bad is just so much derp. Could be they both suck. Could be they are both solid. All we know is that Oates ran the show and those guys coached what Oates said to coach. Very likely he told them exactly how he wanted it coached. Right?


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06-06-2014, 09:31 AM
  #28
Langway
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Very likely he told them exactly how he wanted it coached. Right?
Even if that's the case there are areas within the dictated system he could improve beyond being a mere messenger boy for Oates. That takes a motivated, attentive and forward-thinking coaching staff and none of them had that going for them last year. To absolve his assistants you have to assume Oates wanted nothing of value coming from his assistants beyond carrying his water. I can't believe that was the case to the point where Johansson would have been told not to give helpful tips along the way.

Forsythe should be the eye in the sky upstairs again and given their youth on defense IMO they have to go with a more experienced hand for the back-end. Maybe Johansson is qualified and purely a victim of circumstances but they can't afford to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not given how competitive the division is and the likely stakes in immediately improving the blueline.

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06-06-2014, 09:37 AM
  #29
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that is absolutely true. the idea that Forsythe was good and Johansson bad is just so much derp. Could be they both suck. Could be they are both solid. All we know is that Oates ran the show and those guys coached what Oates said to coach. Very likely he told them exactly how he wanted it coached. Right?
Generally, I think spineless lackeys should be fired as soon as they're identified. Spineless lackeys who oversee a clear disaster without ever trying to stop it should be fired into the sun.

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06-06-2014, 10:55 AM
  #30
Capitlols
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OT: Sometimes I wonder how this team would of progressed if Jim Johnson was promoted. Loved his defensive philosophy and he did run a decent PP.

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06-06-2014, 12:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Generally, I think spineless lackeys should be fired as soon as they're identified. Spineless lackeys who oversee a clear disaster without ever trying to stop it should be fired into the sun.
How do we know the assistants didn't try to stop it an were simply overruled?

Or is this another example of if that was the case they should have quit like Prior did? Because I'm sure nobody around here has worked for a boss who wanted things done not the way we thought they should be done yet we stuck around...

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06-06-2014, 12:33 PM
  #32
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Given that Johansson in particular was brought in because of his past relationship with Oates it seems pretty unlikely he would be iced out. With Forsythe? Maybe so.

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06-06-2014, 01:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Given that Johansson in particular was brought in because of his past relationship with Oates it seems pretty unlikely he would be iced out. With Forsythe? Maybe so.
So a past relationship with someone means you 100% agree with how they go about their job?

I'm not saying Johansson was or wasn't part of the problem. I'm just not ready to assume guilt by association. I commend Prior for having the courage of his convictions but his situation was a decent amount different than the other coaches on the staff IMO. Would a young Dave Prior just trying to get into the league as an assistant have had the same courage? I don't know.

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06-06-2014, 01:23 PM
  #34
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Of course not. Just that their prior relationship should have established more of a give-and-take compared to others. If Oates was going to be receptive of anyone in the organization it seemed like it would be Johansson. Early on at least Oates seemed interactive with the staff and able to delegate. Certainly he had His Rules...and more than most.

Prior probably wouldn't have jumped ship if he was just starting out. I don't necessarily blame Kolzig for taking orders but he was also promoted too quickly to begin with. If the standard is being raised across the board then I don't think anyone aside from Forsythe as an eye in the sky meets expectations. Maybe the rest aren't bad but they're also still very inexperienced and if there are upgrades interested I wouldn't think twice about making those changes. Trotz has a past relationship that could complicate making a change there. Perhaps if Korn is interested they could make him more of a short-term consultant type, although it's likely he could beat that elsewhere.

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06-06-2014, 03:39 PM
  #35
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How do we know the assistants didn't try to stop it an were simply overruled?

Or is this another example of if that was the case they should have quit like Prior did? Because I'm sure nobody around here has worked for a boss who wanted things done not the way we thought they should be done yet we stuck around...
Yes, they should have done what Prior did. Manage your career, not your job.

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06-06-2014, 03:47 PM
  #36
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Yes, they should have done what Prior did. Manage your career, not your job.
Dave Priror has enough of a resume he could get another NHL job, if he wanted (and it certainly helped that he was planning on retiring soon anyway, thus why Kolzig was brought in the first place). That's simply not true for someone like Calle Johansson or Olaf Kolzig. If they're booted out of DC before they show results, it's going to be difficult for them to land another NHL gig. Same as any other job, an entry-level employee has a lot less flexibility than someone who's been working in that field for decades.

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06-06-2014, 05:03 PM
  #37
Millhaus
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
Yes, they should have done what Prior did. Manage your career, not your job.
So I assume you have a long history of quitting your job every time you disagree with your boss...?

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06-06-2014, 05:42 PM
  #38
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So I assume you have a long history of quitting your job every time you disagree with your boss...?
It's not relevant but I've left two jobs due to ethical issues.

I'd rather risk uncertainty and leave a job I'll be judged negatively for than stick around and become a loyal failure.

What does Kolzig have to show for his commitment? Guiding a talented young goalie to his worst season. What a resume booster.

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06-06-2014, 07:35 PM
  #39
Millhaus
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
It's not relevant but I've left two jobs due to ethical issues.

I'd rather risk uncertainty and leave a job I'll be judged negatively for than stick around and become a loyal failure.

What does Kolzig have to show for his commitment? Guiding a talented young goalie to his worst season. What a resume booster.
So what Oates was doing was unethical? Ethical issues are very different IMO than merely disagreeing with some of the decisions the boss it making.

You know as well as I do that bosses do things all the time that employees may disagree with in a business sense. Yet it would appear you are saying is that anyone who doesn't quit over that is just being a loyal failure.

I guess we are all loyal failures then because there is a 100% chance we have all done that...

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06-07-2014, 03:53 PM
  #40
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When hiring people to run a successful enterprise in a competitive environment, I too try to stick to the "well, he hasn't shown to be competent, but theoretically there's a chance he may not be incompetent" model of personnel evaluation.

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06-07-2014, 11:47 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Olaf may end up being a good G coach but I wonder if his relationship with Holtby is damaged from Oates's quack ways.
I'm guessing you haven't watching any of Holtby's post-season interviews because he's made it blindingly clear that he has no issues with Olie at all. In fact, it's quite clear that he's worked with Kolzig to get his game back on track and playing his style against what Oates was saying to do. Even when a reporter tried to press and give credit to Adam and Olie for the return to form at the end of the season, Holtby very specifically just gave credit to Olie, pointedly not referencing Oates.

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06-08-2014, 06:40 AM
  #42
RandyHolt
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I'm guessing you haven't watching any of Holtby's post-season interviews...
Yeah, post season I have not been too inspired. So Kolzig was what we thought - the man in the middle and Holtby knows it.

But know that a player is never going to throw a coach under the bus while still on staff. Players were talking up Oates when the season was over too. Its an awkward question.

Maybe Kolzig was better for Holtby than Prior ever was, but I have not seen it on the ice just yet.

I think Holtby will be fine with any competent goalie coach, and prefer Trotz's choice, not someone under the tutelage of one Adam Oates. I want a clean break. Kolzig was a hometown hire with an eye on marketing.


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06-08-2014, 07:32 AM
  #43
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Yeah, post season I have not been too inspired. So Kolzig was what we thought - the man in the middle and Holtby knows it.

But know that a player is never go to throw a coach under the bus while still on staff. Players were talking up Oates when the season was over too. Its an awkward question.

Maybe Kolzig was better for Holtby than Prior ever was, but I have not seen it on the ice just yet.

I think Holtby will be fine with any competent goalie coach, and prefer Trotz's choice, not someone under the tutelage of one Adam Oates. I want a clean break. Kolzig was a hometown hire with an eye on marketing.

The key here is there is evidence that Olie and Holtby staged a mutiny against Oates' interference around the Olympic break. It seems likely that they're on the same page and are not just making up stories after the season is over, or playing politics by not burning bridges.

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06-08-2014, 07:59 AM
  #44
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the impression that I got was that Kolzig tried best he could to help Holtby play the way Oates wanted him to and then stood up for him when it wasn't working.

I can easily believe that Holtby trusts Kolzig.

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06-08-2014, 08:56 AM
  #45
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So are we really changing the culture of this team when everyone wants to keep a THEIR favorite assistant coach because he is an ex-cap????????? Let Trotz bring who he feels is right and stop all this ******** of who did what last year, because it didn't work.

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06-08-2014, 09:32 AM
  #46
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So are we really changing the culture of this team when everyone wants to keep a THEIR favorite assistant coach because he is an ex-cap????????? Let Trotz bring who he feels is right and stop all this ******** of who did what last year, because it didn't work.
I don't mind keeping Forsythe or Kolzig, if it's Trotz who gets to make the final decision instead of anyone else.

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06-09-2014, 11:52 AM
  #47
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I don't mind keep anyone Trotz wants to keep. So long as it's completely his call, I don't really see how we can question it. Green assistants could actually work under someone like him

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06-10-2014, 01:31 PM
  #48
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Please god no more Olie the goalie coach.
Isn't Korn considered a "goalie whisperer"? If so, sign him up!

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06-10-2014, 01:46 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
OT: Sometimes I wonder how this team would of progressed if Jim Johnson was promoted. Loved his defensive philosophy and he did run a decent PP.
I really liked Johnson as well. I was watching the Kings vs Sharks Playoff series this year and during 1 of the games the Drew Remenda singled out Johnsons addition to the Sharks coaching staff and his ability to communicate along with on the bench/in game coaching.

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06-10-2014, 04:42 PM
  #50
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So the longer this goes does the likelihood we keep the same assistants increase...?

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