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Chris Kreider's Next Contract

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Old
06-04-2014, 10:11 PM
  #26
shinchanyo
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If you guys continue to use such terminology, RangerBoy will come for you. Fair warning.
It would be an honorable death. I suspect a smaller 1 or 2 year deal under what stepan got. Wouldn't be shocked to see them circumvent some UFA years with a 5 year deal. I think they have more confidence in CK going froward than Step. I think they're confident in both of course just slightly moreso in CK

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06-04-2014, 11:38 PM
  #27
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He'll get whatever he wants or he's coming for you legs.
This guy is dirty and should not even be in the league!!! He disgraces the NYR sweater.

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06-05-2014, 09:55 AM
  #28
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i think a bridge at 2.5 would be fair for both sides. i'd pay up to 3 though-- his speed is intangible. even if he' not putting up superstar points, it creates a lot of space for other guys and forces top pairing guys to watch him

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06-05-2014, 01:54 PM
  #29
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Strongly agree.
To keep most of our Forward Lineup and Chemistry it is time to get something for Staal(as much as i'd like to keep him). I think he will be looking for Callahan/Girardi type money maybe even 6YR/35M and that is just not affordable to us evenn with the cap Increasing. We signed Girardi and we must probably keep him for at least 2 more years and his Chemistry seems great with Msdonagh.

I definently see Kreider on a bridge with St.Louis, Nash, Stepan not being locks for the long extended future as of today. Kreider is a Keeper and will get his big bucks next contract, once other players situations are clearer.


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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
As strange as it might be to say, I don't really see Staal or G being completely safe. Girardi maybe because we got such a long contract for the price of his salary (5.5M I think through 2020?)

but if cap space is really as thin as it seems, Staal might be in trouble, which would suck because I still think he's one of if not the most underrated defensemen in the league.

But we have Calle Anderson, Mcilrath, Brady Skjei, Justin falk, john moore, Stralman, Conor Allen.

None of whom are as talented (yet), but all of whom we can sign for a much affordable price. Wouldn't be surrised to see us deal a defensemen in a trade next season or this offseason

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06-05-2014, 02:18 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HolyJumpin40 View Post
I honestly have no idea what price range or length they'll be shooting for with Kreider.

Any guesses?
Unless a couple of big moves are done, the only option would be a smaller bridge deal.

But if we can move, say,
Girardi + Hags + Zuc +
for
TB 2014 (Ekblad) + 2015 1st + deadwood for cap, head count

effectively moving Girardi's #s for an ELC,
something like that
would create cap room for both Staal multiyear and Kreider long term.

That would be long term shrewd.

We could do like 8 years, with club buyout if neces; 2m to start guar each year, with $ added each year, try to have at least some of it bonus driven.

That would be better than him having us over a barrel down the road.
Don't want him to feel a need to go home to Boston.

We can quibble about to what extent he was/was not mismanaged, etc.; bottom line is the talent is there, it is NHL talent, he is career NHLer going forward, and we should take initiative to make him feel like McD, want him as lifelong NYR.

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06-05-2014, 02:23 PM
  #31
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If he's arbitration eligible--then he can take it to arbitration--and then they'll start looking at comparable players and pro-rate his stats to a 46 point player. The thing is you might sign him cheap--but you're not going to sign him too cheap. Because Sather doesn't have all the leverage of simply qualifying him and saying take it or leave it. Sather is going to have to get into the ballpark of comparable players. I think it's going to be somewhere between $1.8 and $2.6--maybe even higher depending on length of term.

The other thing is it's still very obvious that there is room for Chris's game to grow in a lot of different directions. He's pretty good now but his potential is enormous. A player Kreider reminds me of at about the same age is Alexei Kovalev. Kovalev was also a physical beast--with defensive issues and tons of brain farts. Wildly inconsistent as well. The brain farting he may never grow out of but should lessen with experience. That's how it worked with Kovalev.

Kreider has made a huge leap forward this year. He's begun to realize he can skate faster than or run over defenders. He's figured out that he can help the Rangers pwp--just setting up in front of the net and screening the goalie. He sets up plays--he finds the open man well. He's built chemistry with Stepan and Nash--though he defers to Nash way too much.

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Old
06-05-2014, 03:42 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Unless a couple of big moves are done, the only option would be a smaller bridge deal.

But if we can move, say,
Girardi + Hags + Zuc +
for
TB 2014 (Ekblad) + 2015 1st + deadwood for cap, head count

effectively moving Girardi's #s for an ELC,
something like that
would create cap room for both Staal multiyear and Kreider long term.

That would be long term shrewd.

We could do like 8 years, with club buyout if neces; 2m to start guar each year, with $ added each year, try to have at least some of it bonus driven.

That would be better than him having us over a barrel down the road.
Don't want him to feel a need to go home to Boston.

We can quibble about to what extent he was/was not mismanaged, etc.; bottom line is the talent is there, it is NHL talent, he is career NHLer going forward, and we should take initiative to make him feel like McD, want him as lifelong NYR.
Bern, can't say it any better than your last 2 lines. This kid is one of our cornerstones and will be for a long time.

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06-05-2014, 04:39 PM
  #33
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Please just lock him up

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06-05-2014, 05:37 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Unless a couple of big moves are done, the only option would be a smaller bridge deal.

But if we can move, say,
Girardi + Hags + Zuc +
for
TB 2014 (Ekblad) + 2015 1st + deadwood for cap, head count

effectively moving Girardi's #s for an ELC,
something like that
would create cap room for both Staal multiyear and Kreider long term.

That would be long term shrewd.

We could do like 8 years, with club buyout if neces; 2m to start guar each year, with $ added each year, try to have at least some of it bonus driven.

That would be better than him having us over a barrel down the road.
Don't want him to feel a need to go home to Boston.

We can quibble about to what extent he was/was not mismanaged, etc.; bottom line is the talent is there, it is NHL talent, he is career NHLer going forward, and we should take initiative to make him feel like McD, want him as lifelong NYR.
There's no good reason for the Rangers to be breaking the bank for Kreider at this point. He's a very good player now but there is still lots of potential but he's got to improve and earn a big $ contract.

Not at all sure what you're talking about with your 8 year-$2 mil? guarantee to start each year with bonus incentive? $'s--so much of it sounds like it would not be compliant with the cap and $2 mil base salary 8 years from now would certainly not do be doing Kreider any favors if he turns out to be anything like we hope we will. Somehow I don't think his agent would like it either.

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06-05-2014, 06:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by mrmel329 View Post
Bern, can't say it any better than your last 2 lines. This kid is one of our cornerstones and will be for a long time.
Of course, you can throw out everything above the last 2 lines. Rangers are not in a rebuilding mode and are certainly not moving Zuc, Hags, and Girardi for picks.

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Old
06-06-2014, 06:22 AM
  #36
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Nash should give at least 3 million of his salary to Kreider. A real power forward. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers buy out Richards, move Stepan to the third line, sign a FA wing and trade Nash for a playmaking center with speed and a prospect who can actually play and keep up with Kreider. McIlrath and Miller would absolutely be on the team all of next season. These guys are playoff types of players. McIlrath is a heck of a lot faster than Willy Mitchell who made Nash look like Colton Orr skating.


Last edited by Trxjw: 06-06-2014 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Mod edit: OT
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06-06-2014, 08:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by lundqvististheking View Post
Nash should give at least 3 million of his salary to Kreider. A real power forward. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers buy out Richards, move Stepan to the third line, sign a FA wing and trade Nash for a playmaking center with speed and a prospect who can actually play and keep up with Kreider.
So let me get this straight: You think Nash sucks, but you think someone will trade us a fast playmaking center and a prospect for him and his $7.8 million cap hit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lundqvististheking View Post
McIlrath and Miller would absolutely be on the team all of next season. These guys are playoff types of players. McIlrath is a heck of a lot faster than Willy Mitchell who made Nash look like Colton Orr skating.
Even the people who are bullish on McIlrath are not sure he's ready yet. He's been hurt so much that he's a good year or so behind in development. It's a complete wildcard how he'll look going forward.

Miller has yet to show anything more than flashes at the NHL level. Most of the time when he's not invisible he's making defensive mistakes. I also don't really see the speed people are talking about with him. If anything, his skating looks pretty average to me.


Last edited by Trxjw: 06-06-2014 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Mod edit: OT
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06-06-2014, 08:59 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Unless a couple of big moves are done, the only option would be a smaller bridge deal.

But if we can move, say,
Girardi + Hags + Zuc +
for
TB 2014 (Ekblad) + 2015 1st + deadwood for cap, head count

effectively moving Girardi's #s for an ELC,
something like that
would create cap room for both Staal multiyear and Kreider long term.

.
Why would they do that? No roster players back, only two picks (when MSL got callahan and 2 1sts) and they give up 3 guys to get back a max of only two. Can you show when any team has ever done anything similar? This would be a very bad way to make cap space.

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06-06-2014, 11:06 AM
  #39
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no way he is getting more then 3m per. Thats insane. He will get a deal just like stepan for less.

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06-06-2014, 11:18 AM
  #40
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Thread is about Kreider's next contract, not about Girardi or any other defender.

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06-06-2014, 11:36 AM
  #41
bernmeister
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
Why would they do that? No roster players back, only two picks (when MSL got callahan and 2 1sts) and they give up 3 guys to get back a max of only two. Can you show when any team has ever done anything similar? This would be a very bad way to make cap space.
Whatever the final incarnation of that proposal, it is at minimum 1OA this year, and as I have it now, also FL 2015 pick which is not too shabby. + all the cap room for ample deals on Kreider, Staal, and adequate breathing room everywhere else. Plus you get younger.

So yeah, technically you are correct it is "only two picks", specifically "3 guys to get back a max of only two" {via the picks}.

But look at the draft positioning of those picks

The deals w/Cally for MSL are 2 Ranger 1sts, both actually/projected to be extremely late. [FL 1st OA this year is a given, and I would expect significant improvement, so that's middle of the pack next year. Even at closer to 16 than 10th OA next year, that is still a huge gap.

Also while I don't begrudge you the Cally yardstick, 2 points:
1. That deal was tainted because we properly did not want Hank thinking $$ over the season on an extension, but then he asked for top top dollar. No volume or hometown discount. Ok, be that as it may, then it was make a deal for Girardi or lose him for nothing. While he could have been a bit worse, he was also still not cheap.
So not only was the cupboard relatively bare for Callahan, he asked beyond top dollar, if memory serves and #s are to be believed, he was hoping for as close to the 7m over 6 years he may get from the Sabes.

So whether it was a prudent gamble or not from a standpoint of improving the team (which it certainly did not look like up until the middle of the Pens series this playoffs), it was not a good move based on value. It was the best of a bad situation. The smart move, seeing all the variables in the equation, and getting a feel that Cally wanted a serious payout deal for retirement, the better move would have been to move Ryan during last summer when the return would have been higher, even as a rental.

2 While it is prudent to consider everything as a useful measurement tool, slavishly applying Cally deal here is not a good benchmark for reasons cited.
Every deal should stand on its merits.

If you think Ekblad is, soon enough, an upgrade over Girardi, something like this is what is in order, and it has to be done now. Like Seth Jones, once Ekblad is settled he is not likely to be dislodged and moved, and if dislodged, will cost even more.

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06-06-2014, 11:55 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SlapshotTheMovie View Post
no way he is getting more then 3m per. Thats insane. He will get a deal just like stepan for less.
Wrong signal.
Right now, we hold the cards.
When CK's time comes in the not too distant future, he will dictate terms, and terms could result in buh bye if we are not careful.

Shrewd move is to deal the correct somebody for assets and cap space and sign extensive year.

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06-06-2014, 11:59 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ogrodnick View Post
Of course, you can throw out everything above the last 2 lines. Rangers are not in a rebuilding mode and are certainly not moving Zuc, Hags, and Girardi for picks.
It would be foolishly arrogant, win or lose the SCF, to think this team is above improvement. We need to move certain assets that command enough value league wide, including some we prefer not to move, to get those extra horses.

If picks are high enough, then worth the risk, and again, staying on thread topic, picks is the only way (short of losing some assets for nothing) this team can create cap room to have max options on Kreider's next contract.
Again, I advocate long term McD type deal.
Depending on #s, might even save us a bit in the long run over the life of the deal.

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06-06-2014, 02:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
It would be foolishly arrogant, win or lose the SCF, to think this team is above improvement. We need to move certain assets that command enough value league wide, including some we prefer not to move, to get those extra horses.

If picks are high enough, then worth the risk, and again, staying on thread topic, picks is the only way (short of losing some assets for nothing) this team can create cap room to have max options on Kreider's next contract.
Again, I advocate long term McD type deal.
Depending on #s, might even save us a bit in the long run over the life of the deal.
The problem is Bern that draft picks are not necessarily going to be NHL let alone NHL productive players. If we did even a small % of the trades you've proposed in the past we would not be in the finals now. You have to have a now--you can't always be stealing from today for an always in the future--future.

To get back to Kreider--his upcoming contract will be interesting. There's every reason to believe that he is going to be a much better player next year and room for improvement in his play for the next several years. Still he has to prove it. He's earned a bigger payday but not a McDonagh payday. He's one of the most important of our players going forward. Kreider, Zucc and Stepan are our most valuable young forwards.

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06-06-2014, 04:20 PM
  #45
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A tiny bit off topic but kreider puts up unreal stats in my fantasy pool(points +- pims hits) and he's still so young. I don't get to see many NYR games living on the west coast, so I was wondering who a good comparison would be when Kreider is a few years older.. I love those gritty guys that put up pims and lots of hits while still getting points

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06-06-2014, 04:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Whatever the final incarnation of that proposal, it is at minimum 1OA this year, and as I have it now, also FL 2015 pick which is not too shabby. + all the cap room for ample deals on Kreider, Staal, and adequate breathing room everywhere else. Plus you get younger.

So yeah, technically you are correct it is "only two picks", specifically "3 guys to get back a max of only two" {via the picks}.

But look at the draft positioning of those picks

The deals w/Cally for MSL are 2 Ranger 1sts, both actually/projected to be extremely late. [FL 1st OA this year is a given, and I would expect significant improvement, so that's middle of the pack next year. Even at closer to 16 than 10th OA next year, that is still a huge gap.

Also while I don't begrudge you the Cally yardstick, 2 points:
1. That deal was tainted because we properly did not want Hank thinking $$ over the season on an extension, but then he asked for top top dollar. No volume or hometown discount. Ok, be that as it may, then it was make a deal for Girardi or lose him for nothing. While he could have been a bit worse, he was also still not cheap.
So not only was the cupboard relatively bare for Callahan, he asked beyond top dollar, if memory serves and #s are to be believed, he was hoping for as close to the 7m over 6 years he may get from the Sabes.

So whether it was a prudent gamble or not from a standpoint of improving the team (which it certainly did not look like up until the middle of the Pens series this playoffs), it was not a good move based on value. It was the best of a bad situation. The smart move, seeing all the variables in the equation, and getting a feel that Cally wanted a serious payout deal for retirement, the better move would have been to move Ryan during last summer when the return would have been higher, even as a rental.

2 While it is prudent to consider everything as a useful measurement tool, slavishly applying Cally deal here is not a good benchmark for reasons cited.
Every deal should stand on its merits.

If you think Ekblad is, soon enough, an upgrade over Girardi, something like this is what is in order, and it has to be done now. Like Seth Jones, once Ekblad is settled he is not likely to be dislodged and moved, and if dislodged, will cost even more.
I thought winning might stop you from making insane proposals. I was wrong.

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06-07-2014, 06:15 AM
  #47
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I wouldn't mind signing him long term, if the AAV is ok, like 4 mil/year. It's a risk, but I don't see him ending up a player not worth it or a untradable at those terms. Wouldn sign him for much ore though, he still have a lot to prove. Signing a short term deal might, as already pointed out, be an expensive option if he has a break out year, which is far from unrealistic.

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06-07-2014, 08:00 AM
  #48
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History says bridge deal. Don't do it Sather.
Recent history, McDonagh. Sather finally getting with the times, signing another cornerstone for longer than a bridge, needs to be done. Showing faith towards Kreids that we want him to "be that guy", yet NOT as lucrative as McDonagh's, as he's not nearly there "yet". So,......sign him for 6 and overpay him NOW at 3.5-4mil which with the cap going up, and in years following will become "QUITE THE BARGAIN".

That'll bring Hank, McD, Girardi and Kreids into the 2020 hindsight year. Nash till 2018. A solid core.

Presuming that we buy out Richards, there should be plenty of money available to sign OUR players that we want and looking forward to Staal and Hagelin next year.


Last edited by Larrybiv: 06-07-2014 at 08:55 AM.
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06-07-2014, 09:18 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinnyjimmy08 View Post
A tiny bit off topic but kreider puts up unreal stats in my fantasy pool(points +- pims hits) and he's still so young. I don't get to see many NYR games living on the west coast, so I was wondering who a good comparison would be when Kreider is a few years older.. I love those gritty guys that put up pims and lots of hits while still getting points
I think he'll become a meaner Pacioretty. Maybe won't hit 40 goals like Pacioretty probably will, but I could see him being a 35+ goal guy.

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06-07-2014, 09:24 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by lundqvististheking View Post
Nash should give at least 3 million of his salary to Kreider. A real power forward. Again, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rangers buy out Richards, move Stepan to the third line, sign a FA wing and trade Nash for a playmaking center with speed and a prospect who can actually play and keep up with Kreider. McIlrath and Miller would absolutely be on the team all of next season. These guys are playoff types of players. McIlrath is a heck of a lot faster than Willy Mitchell who made Nash look like Colton Orr skating.
I highly doubt most of this happens. Richards buyout seems likely. Stepan to 3C? WTF the guy has been a top 30 center in the league offensively and is better than most of the guys above him defensively. He's a 1C. What FA wing? Vanek? Moulson? No thanks. We are keeping Nash and people have to get over it and just hope that he figures out the playoffs sooner rather than later. McI and Miller, from what I've seen, should be nowhere near this team. Fast and Allen have much more realistic shots of making the team IMO. Miller is not a playoff type of player, he hasn't proven to be a regular season player yet.

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