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Rick Nash Part II

View Poll Results: Do you want to get rid of Rick Nash?
Yes 153 65.95%
No 79 34.05%
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06-12-2014, 06:45 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
What is more amazing is we are in the playoffs because of nash and in the stanley cup finals with Nash. But keep *****ing and moaning about him as we are 3 games away from the cup, ya know the closest thing we have been in 20 years.

I hope you all complained about the opening play of the game where Nash put a picture perfect pass to Hags who inexplicably stopped short of the net. But since it wasn't in the box score we will just completely forget it.


Just another game Nash didn't score, boy he just sucks.
The Hagelin miscue was just another in a long list of Nash making a great play and his linemates not finishing. It was like Hagelin didn't want to score 10 seconds in to the game or something. I was completely baffled by his slowing down before the pass. Braindead.

Nash had another sound game. I think it is safe to say we all wish Nash would will one in the net, but at least he is not a liability. He has consistently been one of the best players on the ice despite not scoring. At least twice last night he was able to force a clear when the rest of the team kept throwing it right to LA players along the boards or on the point.

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06-12-2014, 07:29 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by vippe View Post
Waht?

Except for a few weeks in January he has been pretty "meh" to say the least. How on earth are the Rangers in the playoffs because of him?
on pace for 33 goals, 3rd in the league with 9 gwg. I guess that is easily replaceable and would have not missed out on those 3 points they made the playoffs by.

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06-12-2014, 07:46 AM
  #353
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So Penner and Cullen are now the benchmark for Nash? And the other guys on that list who are at least close to being paid like Nash all had at least one very good playoff run while Nash has been like this for nearly 40 games now.

And you are overrating Nash's contribution to making the playoffs. Yes his goals definitely helped, but it's not like they all just vanish without Nash. Someone else would get his ice time and someone else would score some goals with it. And it's not like his 25 goals are something unheard of that would be irreplaceable - his 38 points even less. Hell, I know it's beating a dead horse, but Dubi outscored him for half the price. I'm sure we'd still have made the playoffs with Nash's 7.8 million spent on other players.
The point was showing guys who were relied on to score for the team did not play well in the Playoffs and their team still was able to win. I certainly expect more of nash than a benchmark of Penner or Cullen but do not slight them for putting up 25+ goals.

The Rangers made the playoffs by 3 points, if you think taking out our leading goal scorer is going to improve the team that is just wrong.

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06-12-2014, 08:23 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
You are the poster child of someone who does not watch the games and just reads the box score. Your logic is since he did not score he had a bad game.

BTW Crosby had 1 goal in 13 games this post-season when do you think the Pens will cut their losses with him? How dare someone who makes so much money struggle!

Don't worry I am sure you are one of the posters that wanted gabby gone after his poor playoff performance in 2012
Kopitar has not scored in 12 games now. I wonder if Kings fans are ready to cut their losses with him?

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06-12-2014, 08:24 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
The point was showing guys who were relied on to score for the team did not play well in the Playoffs and their team still was able to win. I certainly expect more of nash than a benchmark of Penner or Cullen but do not slight them for putting up 25+ goals.

The Rangers made the playoffs by 3 points, if you think taking out our leading goal scorer is going to improve the team that is just wrong.
We made them by 6 points. And yes, in a perfect world, where we spent the 7.8 million wisely (admittedly not likely with Sather as GM), the team would be improved, as Nash certainly does not offer a very good bang for buck ratio. Mind that Nash also missed quite a few games (obviously not his fault), where the replacement probably would've been available.

In the end, I still think we make the playoffs without Nash and with a decent replacement. Maybe we don't have home ice against the Flyers, but we still make it.

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06-12-2014, 08:25 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
The Hagelin miscue was just another in a long list of Nash making a great play and his linemates not finishing. It was like Hagelin didn't want to score 10 seconds in to the game or something. I was completely baffled by his slowing down before the pass. Braindead.

Nash had another sound game. I think it is safe to say we all wish Nash would will one in the net, but at least he is not a liability. He has consistently been one of the best players on the ice despite not scoring. At least twice last night he was able to force a clear when the rest of the team kept throwing it right to LA players along the boards or on the point.
I found it amazing some people were complaining about that pass. It was perfect. Right through the center of the ice. Hagelin just didn't get in position and wasn't expecting it for some reason.

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06-12-2014, 08:45 AM
  #357
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I found it amazing some people were complaining about that pass. It was perfect. Right through the center of the ice. Hagelin just didn't get in position and wasn't expecting it for some reason.
He's been playing with MSL and Richards, maybe it could have something to do with it was his first shift with new linemates? He should have drove the net, but whatever, we won.

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06-12-2014, 08:48 AM
  #358
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He's been playing with MSL and Richards, maybe it could have something to do with it was his first shift with new linemates? He should have drove the net, but whatever, we won.
I just think that was a pretty clear cut play. Throw it to the middle of the ice and be in the correct position to put it home. Hagelin just wasn't for some reason. Nash made a great play.

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06-12-2014, 08:49 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by jniklast View Post
We made them by 6 points. And yes, in a perfect world, where we spent the 7.8 million wisely (admittedly not likely with Sather as GM), the team would be improved, as Nash certainly does not offer a very good bang for buck ratio. Mind that Nash also missed quite a few games (obviously not his fault), where the replacement probably would've been available.

In the end, I still think we make the playoffs without Nash and with a decent replacement. Maybe we don't have home ice against the Flyers, but we still make it.
My mistake meant 3 games but still very debatable taking the leading goal scorer off the team and expecting them to be better. Goal scorers are mostly overpaid and it will be a trend that continues. Obviously I would like Nasher to start putting them in the back of the net but I will not turn a blind eye to everything else he is providing.

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06-12-2014, 08:50 AM
  #360
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Once that play happened I truly was worried and said here we go again. Those net to find the back of the net when playing a team like the Kings.

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06-12-2014, 09:06 AM
  #361
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Kopitar has not scored in 12 games now. I wonder if Kings fans are ready to cut their losses with him?
I wonder why you failed to mention that Kopitar has 21 assists (#1 in the playoffs) to go with those 5 goals, which gives him 26 points (#1 in the playoffs). He is also +9 in the playoffs (#4).

Meanwhile Nash only has 10 points (3 goals / 7 assists / -1) to place him firmly at #39 in the playoffs, behind Pouliot & Brad Richards and a guy like Stastny who has only played 7 games compared to Nash's 24.

Obviously Kopitar is getting some better play from his teammates around the net but regardless, at the end of the day he is still getting it done and helping his team score while Nash isn't. He should have had a goal and an assist last night but things just don't go his way in the playoffs for whatever reason.

Great argument.

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06-12-2014, 11:22 AM
  #362
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I wonder why you failed to mention that Kopitar has 21 assists (#1 in the playoffs) to go with those 5 goals, which gives him 26 points (#1 in the playoffs). He is also +9 in the playoffs (#4).

Meanwhile Nash only has 10 points (3 goals / 7 assists / -1) to place him firmly at #39 in the playoffs, behind Pouliot & Brad Richards and a guy like Stastny who has only played 7 games compared to Nash's 24.

Obviously Kopitar is getting some better play from his teammates around the net but regardless, at the end of the day he is still getting it done and helping his team score while Nash isn't. He should have had a goal and an assist last night but things just don't go his way in the playoffs for whatever reason.

Great argument.
Yeah Nash sucks. He's terrible. He's just invisible out there right !

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06-12-2014, 11:23 AM
  #363
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Nash is noticeably our best forward out there, maybe sans Zuccarello. Anyone with half a brain for the game watching can see that.

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06-12-2014, 11:46 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Yeah Nash sucks. He's terrible. He's just invisible out there right !
I'd like to think you're better than this dense answer.

The guy was brought here to be a gamebreaker. He hasn't been. Its amazing how the argument has shifted to "well, hes not a liability out there" like thats some sort of positive for a player of Nash's caliber.

If the Ranger's lose in these next 3 games, you gotta wonder what might have been had Nash done his job and put some more pucks in the net.

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06-12-2014, 11:46 AM
  #365
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Nash is noticeably our best forward out there, maybe sans Zuccarello. Anyone with half a brain for the game watching can see that.
Marty St. Louis says hello.

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06-12-2014, 11:46 AM
  #366
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Nash is noticeably our best forward out there, maybe sans Zuccarello. Anyone with half a brain for the game watching can see that.
So you wouldn't trade Nash for Kopitar for the playoffs?

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06-12-2014, 11:58 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by jerseyjinx94 View Post
Nash is noticeably our best forward out there, maybe sans Zuccarello. Anyone with half a brain for the game watching can see that.
given that we are down 3-1 heading back across the country and our "best forward not named zuke" has exactly zero goals.

were are exactly where we should be. hes not even our best non scoring checking forward.

god help us if nash is our 2nd best forward.

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06-12-2014, 12:09 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by NJBlueShirt View Post
I wonder why you failed to mention that Kopitar has 21 assists (#1 in the playoffs) to go with those 5 goals, which gives him 26 points (#1 in the playoffs). He is also +9 in the playoffs (#4).

Meanwhile Nash only has 10 points (3 goals / 7 assists / -1) to place him firmly at #39 in the playoffs, behind Pouliot & Brad Richards and a guy like Stastny who has only played 7 games compared to Nash's 24.

Obviously Kopitar is getting some better play from his teammates around the net but regardless, at the end of the day he is still getting it done and helping his team score while Nash isn't. He should have had a goal and an assist last night but things just don't go his way in the playoffs for whatever reason.

Great argument.
I think Kopitar's lack of scoring now makes the point that good players get snakebitten, sometimes at the worst times. Kopitar was being hailed as some sort of hockey god not a week ago, and now he's on a cold streak. All the games he scored in leading up to now, and all the games Nash didn't score in up to now, mean literally nothing. Their teams won, and now they're both in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, series of their lives. All that matters is if they can score now, and if their teams can win now.

Both of them are good players who haven't been scoring. Nash was a passenger in the worst way to start the post season, but for a while now, he's been playing well, he just can't buy points. Kopitar obviously started way, way hotter, but he's in the same situation now. It happens.

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06-12-2014, 12:10 PM
  #369
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I think Kopitar's lack of scoring now makes the point that good players get snakebitten, sometimes at the worst times. Kopitar was being hailed as some sort of hockey god not a week ago, and now he's on a cold streak. All the games he scored in leading up to now, and all the games Nash didn't score in up to now, mean literally nothing. Their teams won, and now they're both in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, series of their lives. All that matters is if they can score now, and if their teams can win now.

Both of them are good players who haven't been scoring. Nash was a passenger in the worst way to start the post season, but for a while now, he's been playing well, he just can't buy points. Kopitar obviously started way, way hotter, but he's in the same situation now. It happens.
I can buy this argument in general, but you'll have to point out to me where Rick Nash has ever gone on a hot streak in the playoffs.

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06-12-2014, 12:17 PM
  #370
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I can buy this argument in general, but you'll have to point out to me where Rick Nash has ever gone on a hot streak in the playoffs.
Okay, he hasn't been on one.

What does that mean now, though, in the scope of this season and series? Would we honestly be in a different spot if he scored a handful more points in the earlier series? They won when they had to. At the end of this final series, I really don't think any of these numbers matter. If the Kings lost, would Kopitar's points mean anything? The point of the playoffs is to win the cup. That's it. Nash's team is in a spot to do it now, and what he can do or can't do in the remaining games will determine how I personally view his contributions in the short term.

If we're talking about whether or not Nash is worth his cap hit or his spot or whatever if the long term, yeah, his overall playoff numbers become something important. But, in terms of evaluation how he's doing now, I don't think they mean much. Score a goal that wins one of these games, and I couldn't possible care less whether it's his first or his tenth. Like I said, the way he was the first few rounds was disgusting, but he's been on top of things recently, he just hasn't been able to score. That's far less offensive to me. That happens to everyone, including Kopitar, as we're now seeing.

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06-12-2014, 12:21 PM
  #371
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The thing with Kopitar is that he's always been more of a playmaker than a goalscorer, so it's not an ideal comparison with Nash who has generally been more adept at putting the puck in the net than Kopitar throughout their careers. Kopitar has 2 assists in this series - not great but he is still contributing in the offensive area that he excels in.

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06-12-2014, 12:24 PM
  #372
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Fun read

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=721983


"LOS ANGELES -- The Rick Nash story in the 2014 Stanley Cup Playoffs has reached the point where expectations for the New York Rangers forward have changed.

Once considered an elite goal-scorer and the player who had to ignite the Rangers' offense, Nash is being held to a different standard in the playoffs, at least based on public comments made by his teammates and coach Alain Vigneault.

Now Nash is supposed to be an all-around, 200-foot player who doesn't need to score to be effective.

It's not clear if this change is a good thing or a bad thing for the Rangers, who trail 1-0 heading into Game 2 of the best-of-7 Stanley Cup Final against the Los Angeles Kings on Saturday (7 p.m. ET; NBC, CBC, RDS).

What is clear is that, for now, the Rangers seem content with how Nash is playing, even though he has three goals and 10 points in 21 playoff games after scoring 26 goals in 65 regular-season games.

"Pucks aren't always going to go in for you. No one scores every game," said left wing Chris Kreider, who plays on the line with Nash and center Derek Stepan. "With that being said, you can have a really good game and not have a goal, an assist or a shot on goal. You can play really well and detail-oriented and nothing will show up on the stat sheet. You can also play a great game and have three goals and two assists. It doesn't matter at this level. When you're a professional, a professional like Rick, when you've been around and had so much success, it's about winning games. It's all detail-oriented stuff, not point production."

That makes sense -- especially the part about winning, which Nash emphasizes.

"The way I look at it, it's so cliché but it's the truth, you want to help the team any way you can to win games," Nash said. "Am I supposed to score goals? Yeah, but we need everyone to score goals to win games, myself included. When you're not scoring you've got to help out other ways: penalty kill, defensively. It's just the way it works when you're on championship teams."

The Rangers are the Eastern Conference champions in part because Nash has been effective in other areas throughout the playoffs. He's been one of their most important penalty-killers and has been playing against the opposition's top forwards and shutting them down. He isn't making costly errors and has generated some scoring chances.

"Rick has been playing some real good hockey," Vigneault said. "He's competing. He's using his size (6-foot-4, 213 pounds). He's done some great defensive plays for us. He's been a big part of why we are where we are and why we have a chance to compete for the Cup."

Nash is playing the same role for the Rangers that he effectively played for Canada at the past two Winter Olympics. He was in Vancouver in 2010 and Sochi in 2014 not as a goal-scorer but as a checker who could help Canada get the puck back and put it in the net. Canada was not relying on Nash to score goals; it had enough players who could do that.

Nash helped Canada win the gold medal twice and scored two goals in 13 games.

"He's a guy that adapts to what's needed," said forward Derek Dorsett, whose time with Nash dates to their days together with the Columbus Blue Jackets. "You have seen that with Team Canada, when he was put in those defensive roles."

New York doesn't have Canada's offensive depth, so Nash can't be only a checker now. He is the Rangers' highest-paid player this season and has the second-most career goals (behind forward Martin St. Louis; 370-336).

"I've got to finish," Nash said.

First, he's got to get started. Nash said that means he needs to get on the inside when he's in the offensive zone, but that won't happen unless or until he establishes a forecheck with Kreider and Stepan.

"To get a forecheck you have to get pucks deep," Nash said. "We weren't able to get pucks deep and get the pucks out of our end [in Game 1]. We spent the second half of the game defending. For me and Kreider's game, we have to be in there cycling."

Like most power forwards, Nash gets on the inside of the opposition and leans on them to create scoring chances when he is involved in a cycle game with his linemates.

"It's not just Rick alone," Stepan said. "We were talking about it [Friday], me and [Kreider], we have to step up our game to help him out too."

At some point here, the onus has to fall on Nash. That's the burden of being the star, especially in a short playoff series when one goal could be the difference.

The Rangers are trying to break the fall for Nash by talking about the other things he is doing well. Nobody is mentioning what Nash referred to as the "elephant in the room" earlier in the postseason.

All three of his goals came in the Eastern Conference Final; one was the seventh in a 7-2 win and another was a sharp-angled shot from the left corner that went in off Montreal Canadiens defenseman Josh Gorges.

"At this point it's more about the wins," Nash said. "You're not worried about your individual statistics. You're worried about doing whatever you can to help the team win games."

One of those ways should be scoring goals, no matter what the new expectations are.

"We know he's playing, he's working through it, and he'll break out," defenseman Ryan McDonagh said. "It might only be one goal, but that could be the difference. If there is any guy that's going to score it it's going to be him because of his ability, his clutch play over the years.""

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06-12-2014, 12:28 PM
  #373
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I totally agree with the sentiment of that article.

There's a time for caring about point totals for individual players, but that time is absolutely not when you're down 3 - 1 in the stanley cup finals. As long as this season continues, the only thing that matters is winning games.

There will be plenty of time to focus on the macro situation with every player in the offseason.

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06-12-2014, 12:29 PM
  #374
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Marian Hossa had 2 goals in 19 games
Crosby 1 goal 13 games
Jason Pominville 2 goals 13 games
Mikko Koivu 1 goal in 13 games
David Krejci 0 goals and 4 points in 12 games
Brad Marchand 0 goals 5 points in 12 games



Slumps happen, would you not want any of those guys on the Rangers?

Do you think consistent 30 goal scorers are easy to find?

He is absolutely overpaid but once they are on the ice I don't worry about their salary. I don't say Brad Richards 4th line 6 mil. No I just want them to contribute and win the game. If dorsett got a hat trick or Nash got a hat trick and the rangers won it wouldn't make a difference.
You still have not answered my question: "What exactly should we expect from Rick Nash at this point in your view?"

I don't care about any of the players you mentioned above because none of them are helping us to win a Stanley Cup this year. Rick Nash's slump seems to extend the length of his entire playoff career. The bulk of which unfortunately has been with us.

Rick Nash is a New York Ranger. His job is to help us win. What should he be doing to achieve that?

Being a responsible two way hockey player is the minium that should be required from every player. Not just the high paid ones, but maybe especially from them. Players with elite level salaries should be expected to score in the playoffs. Are you really saying that's asking too much? I'm really hoping he can contribute at least one goal the next game. It would certainly help.


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06-12-2014, 12:31 PM
  #375
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Would not say he's been playing well for a while now, at least not by what the standard should be for Nash. I think these past 2 1/2 games there has been something different.

If he drives to the net, puts the puck and himself in good offensive areas, if he's hitting, if he is shooting where there is more than 5% chance something comes from that shot, I am happy with Nash and I think the points and goals will eventually show up.

Was a passenger too often in regular season, playoffs started and he was playing better defense and hitting, last couple games he has been driving to the net and making better puck choices while still hitting and playing good defense.

Last couple games, if Nash played like that all the time I don't think there would be as many people, like myself, questioning what he was doing.

Speculation as to what was going on, Concussion, lingering effects, scared to get another? Not putting in the same level of effort? Some other injury? Something else? I don't know but it appears from his stats over the years, when Nash is hitting he is playing.

2013-14 playoffs 41 hits in 24 games
2013-14 season 11 hits in 65 games *
12-13 regular season 46 in 44
11-12 regular 104 in 82
10-11 regular 91 in 75

* there was something wrong with Nash. Is it still there or is this him getting his game back?

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