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Rick Nash Part II

View Poll Results: Do you want to get rid of Rick Nash?
Yes 153 65.95%
No 79 34.05%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-15-2014, 09:04 PM
  #726
BlueshirtBlitz
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Originally Posted by ReggieDunlop68 View Post
Debating whether Rick Nash was a major component of a shutdown factor against the world best would be as effective as debating whether the sky is blue on a cloudless day.
Yeah, because clearly you refuse to acknowledge how integral Nash was for our first 3 series wins.

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06-15-2014, 09:06 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
We pay this guy 7,8 million a year, and he scored less than our best D in the playoffs. Don't tell me we can't have success without him.

Look at Gabby and his production, he's what I call an elite player. We should expect the same from Nash.
I have a feeling you were complaining about Gabby's "lack of production" in the post-season when he was a Ranger, too.

If not, I apologize. But many of the people crying about Nash and claiming Gabby would've gotten it done were also crying about Gabby.

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06-15-2014, 09:06 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Yeah, because clearly you refuse to acknowledge how integral Nash was for our first 3 series wins.
He didn't score enough, though, so that automatically makes him completely useless because he's expected to score more. Even if he was integral in shutting down other team's top lines, nope, can't give him the credit cuz he didn't score enough!

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06-15-2014, 09:32 PM
  #729
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He's got two more years left correct? Will be interesting to see if the rangers want to keep him around and give him a low offer in the 4 or 5 mil range or if he'll be lynched by the fans and they'll let him go by then.

I think if you're talking about getting rid of him, realistically that's the soonest and how it's going to happen.

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06-15-2014, 09:33 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by 3rd Guy High View Post
He's got two more years left correct? Will be interesting to see if the rangers want to keep him around and give him a low offer in the 4 or 5 mil range or if he'll be lynched by the fans and they'll let him go by then.

I think if you're talking about getting rid of him, realistically that's the soonest and how it's going to happen.
Four.

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06-15-2014, 11:09 PM
  #731
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Assume the Rangers need to play the game from here:

What is the minimum the Nash haters would accept to move him?

Complaining about what he's paid, etc, is pointless.

What should the team do going forward.

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06-15-2014, 11:26 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Assume the Rangers need to play the game from here:

What is the minimum the Nash haters would accept to move him?

Complaining about what he's paid, etc, is pointless.

What should the team do going forward.
Can't do anything. He has a no-move clause through 14-15, then a no-trade through 17-18.

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06-15-2014, 11:35 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by EuroFlair View Post
Yes he's a damn bad fit in a cap world but he's is playing a great 200 ft game the goals was for most part all in his head at the end, he did played solid everywhere except for not lighting the lamp. Look at Richards, sucked at like the only thing we asked of him and was a just liability in the end.
Yes, this was my point about him needing better coaching. I think he does have the ability and a lot of this is in his head.

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06-15-2014, 11:36 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Can't do anything. He has a no-move clause through 14-15, then a no-trade through 17-18.
If we really wanted him gone, we could just boo him at every game even more than the fans do now.

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06-15-2014, 11:39 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Can't do anything. He has a no-move clause through 14-15, then a no-trade through 17-18.
Assume he'll wave it. What is the minimum the team should accept?

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06-16-2014, 12:51 PM
  #736
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I've been one of the "haters" this playoffs. But I'm not sure I would look to dump Nash just yet.

It can take even elite players a while to figure out how to play their game and/or adjust their game for the playoffs. It really does become a different game, and there can be a bit of a learning curve. This is a big part of why I'm willing to (sort of) overlook Nash's playoff struggles. He stepped up his defensive game these playoffs, and now he's got to put together the offense with it.

By way of example, here is a bit of trivia (for "haters" and "defenders" of Nash alike):

Which elite player (not named Hossa), who these boards would have absolutely salivated at the prospect of having on NYR the past few seasons, struggled just as badly as Nash in his first 42 career games played in the playoffs while playing on one of this league's elite teams? [And this player has, since those first 42 games, put up nearly a point per game pace in the playoffs, scored goals at a rate 5 times what he was during those 42 games, oh and is pretty damn good defensively as well.] See below for stats comparisons:


Nash in the POs to this point in his career over 3 playoffs:

41 GP, 5 goals, 13 assists, 18 points. 0.12 goals per game. 0.439 points per game.



[Answer in first 42 PO games over 4 playoffs]:

42 GP, 3 goals, 12 assists, 15 points. 0.07 goals per game. 0.357 points per game.


[Answer in next 103 PO games over 8 playoffs]:

103 GP, 36 goals, 57 assists, 93 points. 0.35 goals per game, 0.903 points per game.



I'm willing to give him another shot. But he has run out of second chances. If he can't figure out how to score in the playoffs soon, then you just have to cut your losses. I don't know how you do it with the NMCs and NTCs. But you just can't afford to be paying a forward $7.8 million who can't score goals in the playoffs. Just can't do it.


Last edited by Richter Scale: 06-16-2014 at 12:57 PM.
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06-16-2014, 12:54 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
He didn't score enough, though, so that automatically makes him completely useless because he's expected to score more. Even if he was integral in shutting down other team's top lines, nope, can't give him the credit cuz he didn't score enough!
Ok, sure. If you flipped it, and he was scoring but was also a ghost defensively - doing more harm than good - yea, I probably would also be none too happy. But that doesn't absolve him of his inability to put the damn puck in the net. Plenty of players - especially being paid the $$$ he is - do both. And if we're not expecting him to be able to do both, then his cap hit is a big problem.

He has been given a ton of credit for his defensive play on these forums, actually. Including from a lot of the haters (myself included). But when his "defenders" bring this up, they ignore that he is here to score goals and ignore his cap hit. Are you really ok with paying almost $8 million for what in this postseason amounted to a glorified shutdown forward?


All of that said, as you can tell from my above post, I'm not on the "omg trade him" bandwagon. I'm open to it if the return is something you absolutely can't pass up; but I don't see that happening.

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06-16-2014, 01:00 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Yeah, because clearly you refuse to acknowledge how integral Nash was for our first 3 series wins.
Your $7.8m player should be something more than a pretty good penalty killer. Your $7.8m player who has more than enough size for anyone, should be able to play in front of the net and not shy away from it. Your $7.8m player should be able to do what the team needs for him to do, score goals.

There is a very big difference between being integral and contributing to wins without scoring. He did the latter. He did not do the former. The problem is that what he did do is typically attributed to 3/rd/4th line players. Overall, Nash has been a complete failure in the playoffs.

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06-16-2014, 01:38 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
I've been one of the "haters" this playoffs. But I'm not sure I would look to dump Nash just yet.

It can take even elite players a while to figure out how to play their game and/or adjust their game for the playoffs. It really does become a different game, and there can be a bit of a learning curve. This is a big part of why I'm willing to (sort of) overlook Nash's playoff struggles. He stepped up his defensive game these playoffs, and now he's got to put together the offense with it.

By way of example, here is a bit of trivia (for "haters" and "defenders" of Nash alike):

Which elite player (not named Hossa), who these boards would have absolutely salivated at the prospect of having on NYR the past few seasons, struggled just as badly as Nash in his first 42 career games played in the playoffs while playing on one of this league's elite teams? [And this player has, since those first 42 games, put up nearly a point per game pace in the playoffs, scored goals at a rate 5 times what he was during those 42 games, oh and is pretty damn good defensively as well.] See below for stats comparisons:


Nash in the POs to this point in his career over 3 playoffs:

41 GP, 5 goals, 13 assists, 18 points. 0.12 goals per game. 0.439 points per game.



[Answer in first 42 PO games over 4 playoffs]:

42 GP, 3 goals, 12 assists, 15 points. 0.07 goals per game. 0.357 points per game.


[Answer in next 103 PO games over 8 playoffs]:

103 GP, 36 goals, 57 assists, 93 points. 0.35 goals per game, 0.903 points per game.



I'm willing to give him another shot. But he has run out of second chances. If he can't figure out how to score in the playoffs soon, then you just have to cut your losses. I don't know how you do it with the NMCs and NTCs. But you just can't afford to be paying a forward $7.8 million who can't score goals in the playoffs. Just can't do it.
Datsyuk?

Also, I totally agree with the bolded, and I think it's very well put. I'm willing to give him another chance to put it together in the playoffs, but he won't get another after that.

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06-16-2014, 02:14 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Also, I totally agree with the bolded, and I think it's very well put. I'm willing to give him another chance to put it together in the playoffs, but he won't get another after that.
The problem is that other teams will see that as well. And then he will be truly unmovable.

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06-16-2014, 02:32 PM
  #741
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There has ever been a better example of a big guy playing small. Had Nash spent even a bit more time making things hard for Quick in front of the net, it could have been a huge boost. Maybe it could have made the difference.

The problem with giving him a second chance is that it only gets harder to move him if he lays another egg. At this point there may be some teams who see what happened as an aberration and would be willing to make a decent deal.

I can't imagine how bad it will be and next season rolls around and it's the same old Nash in the playoffs.

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06-16-2014, 03:00 PM
  #742
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Nash is part of the solution, not the problem.

It's very possible that he was injured, and that's why he stopped going to the slot, using his size, and skating well down low. I hope that returns and think it will. BUT, to everyone claiming that Nash detractors are short-sighted and thinking with a what-have-you-done-for-us-lately attitude (BTW, welcome to the reality, Chris Drury says hi), I think you're a bit off-base... Nash did some of the small things well, things he doesn't always do in the regular season. He contributed, but not enough. For a guy paid to be your top scorer, 3 goals in 25 games is BAD. No matter what else you're doing; forechecking, hitting, finding the cure for AIDS, 3 goals = bad play from a star player.

He was bad in the playoffs. Should he be traded? No. He still led everyone in goals on a balanced/lower-scoring team. I'm guessing he just needs a good, long rest. Next season, he should be better. If not, then we consider trading him.

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06-16-2014, 03:11 PM
  #743
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The problem is that other teams will see that as well. And then he will be truly unmovable.
Would he be, though? 7.8 mill of an increasing cap for three years after next year. The guy can score a ton in the regular season, which is always necessary to just make the playoffs.

Plus, whether we like it or not, his value is low right now, too. It's not like nobody is suspicious of his playoff credentials and we can sneak him away without people knowing.

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06-16-2014, 03:11 PM
  #744
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The problem with giving him a second chance is that it only gets harder to move him if he lays another egg. At this point there may be some teams who see what happened as an aberration and would be willing to make a decent deal.
True, though the value of trading a guy like Nash is not the return itself, but the cap relief. It's a pretty safe bet he won't belly up entirely, in which case, you can probably find someone to take on his salary.

I'd give him a chance to be what he can still be, but with the emergence of MZA and Kreider (pray for Duclair and Buchnevich), he's replaceable if need be, with McGinns, Folignos, Bickells and Cliffords + more. That's how the Gaborik trade went.

Let's see, not yet...

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06-16-2014, 03:14 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
True, though the value of trading a guy like Nash is not the return itself, but the cap relief. It's a pretty safe bet he won't belly up entirely, in which case, you can probably find someone to take on his salary.

I'd give him a chance to be what he can still be, but with the emergence of MZA and Kreider (pray for Duclair and Buchnevich), he's replaceable if need be, with McGinns, Folignos, Bickells and Cliffords + more. That's how the Gaborik trade went.

Let's see, not yet...
I agree. If i'm trading Nash it's because Stamkos is a UFA and I want cap space or something.

However, and I still don't think people realize it, but Kreider-Stepan-Nash was our only line to have positive possession numbers going against the most elite players in the world. Brass-Poo-Zuke did as well, but they were going against easier competition. If Nash was scoring our top line would've had a DOMINANT post-season.

I'm mad at the dude for not scoring, because his inability to score might have lost us the Cup, but to trade him just to sign Stastny or something is nuts.

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06-16-2014, 03:17 PM
  #746
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I'd rather have Dubinsky and anisinov back for what nash brings to the table. Hated the trade when they made it and still did. Nash is a lazy player and always has been. I hope there's a team out there that's dumb enough to trade for him. Maybe we can boo his useless ass out of New York next season where he demands a trade. Might be best case scenario for NYR.

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06-16-2014, 03:19 PM
  #747
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It is, and I bet you this hasn't crossed Sather's mind. Nash is not being traded this off-season.

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06-16-2014, 03:20 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Assume the Rangers need to play the game from here:

What is the minimum the Nash haters would accept to move him?

Complaining about what he's paid, etc, is pointless.

What should the team do going forward.
Maybe we can swap him for joe Thornton.

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06-16-2014, 03:20 PM
  #749
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I'd rather have Dubinsky and anisinov back for what nash brings to the table. Hated the trade when they made it and still did. Nash is a lazy player and always has been. I hope there's a team out there that's dumb enough to trade for him. Maybe we can boo his useless ass out of New York next season where he demands a trade. Might be best case scenario for NYR.
Definitely the best case. Who needs 30 goals in the regular season?

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06-16-2014, 03:23 PM
  #750
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Definitely the best case. Who needs 30 goals in the regular season?
Kreider will score 30 this year.

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