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Rick Nash Part II

View Poll Results: Do you want to get rid of Rick Nash?
Yes 153 65.95%
No 79 34.05%
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06-09-2014, 02:30 PM
  #151
CJCNYR
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
What you fail to see is that this is more than a goal scoring funk. 34 games is a large sample size. 4 goals during that span is atrocious, especially for a perennial 30 goal scorer. If Nash played every game like that CBJ game, there's no way he would be kept off the board for long. Having a 10 game goal drought? Ok. 4 in 34? You're not earning your paycheck.

Rick Nash scores goals in the regular season at a rate of .43GPG. In the playoffs, that drops to .14GPG. I would expect the number to go down, with tighter checking and stiffer competition, but Nash's numbers drop off a cliff. That's unacceptable.
Gabby before this year (his last 3 playoff appearances had 6 goals in 31 games. Now look. So maybe you should re-evaluate your sample size.

Toews before this post season (last 3 playoff appearances) 6 goals in 36 games.

It happens, but lets crucify and boo Nash at home games.

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06-09-2014, 02:41 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
Gabby before this year (his last 3 playoff appearances had 6 goals in 31 games. Now look. So maybe you should re-evaluate your sample size.

Toews before this post season (last 3 playoff appearances) 6 goals in 36 games.

It happens, but lets crucify and boo Nash at home games.
Gaborik has a world-class center and the playoff's leading scorer feeding him goals. His playoff numbers were terrible here, as was his play.

Toews is a shutdown center, Nash is a goal-scoring winger with less defensive responsibilities. Completely different situations.

At some point, Nash has to be held responsible for results. A salesman who doesn't close any deals is useless.

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06-09-2014, 02:50 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Gaborik has a world-class center and the playoff's leading scorer feeding him goals. His playoff numbers were terrible here, as was his play.

Toews is a shutdown center, Nash is a goal-scoring winger with less defensive responsibilities. Completely different situations.

At some point, Nash has to be held responsible for results. A salesman who doesn't close any deals is useless.
Exactly my point, gabby couldn't do it here by himself and neither can Nash. Stepan and Krieder are not play makers for Nash, They dont get him pucks in spots to succeed. Also just proves goals and funks are common.


Toews averaged .40 gpg in regular season in his career
Nash .43, not to mention Nash doesn't even play the PP any more and plays on the PK which he has done a great job.

Goal funks happen to the best players in the world all the time. Look at Crosby, 1 goal 13 games.

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06-09-2014, 02:52 PM
  #154
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Oh god, comparing him to Toews now...Rick Nash defense force has gone off the deep end.

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06-09-2014, 03:02 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by RangersFan View Post
Oh god, comparing him to Toews now...Rick Nash defense force has gone off the deep end.
I compared a similar goal funk from very similar goal scorers based on past play, maybe it was too tough to comprehend.

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06-09-2014, 03:05 PM
  #156
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I really wish we could trade Nash and get another star forward from a trade or signing so we can crucify him next and then reminiss about Nash's play here when he scores a bunch of goals after we trade him

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06-09-2014, 03:07 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
I compared a similar goal funk from very similar goal scorers based on past play, maybe it was too tough to comprehend.
Nope, it wasn't too hard to comprehend, just an inane comparison.

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06-09-2014, 03:09 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
Nope, it wasn't too hard to comprehend, just an inane comparison.
yeah .43 career gpg vs .40 gpg. How dare I compare such insane numbers. Nash is 1000x the goal scorer because you guys say so. But I will use factual statistics to back that they are similar goal scorers.

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06-09-2014, 03:12 PM
  #159
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dude just needs to score goals.

thats why we went out and got rick nash.

thats pretty much it.

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06-09-2014, 03:20 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
yeah .43 career gpg vs .40 gpg. How dare I compare such insane numbers. Nash is 1000x the goal scorer because you guys say so. But I will use factual statistics to back that they are similar goal scorers.
You're comparing apples and oranges. Nash and Toews serve extremely different roles on their respective teams. One guy is a goal scoring winger, the other is a shutdown center. But since you insist on using that idiotic comparison, Toews still put up 22 points in those 36 games during his "goal drought," as a shutdown center. Nash has put up 15 points in 34 games as a scoring winger, while getting much better zone starts. Nash has been put in a better position to succeed, and is failing.

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06-09-2014, 03:25 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by RangersFan View Post
Oh god, comparing him to Toews now...Rick Nash defense force has gone off the deep end.
Toews is overrated defensively tbh

Great player, but he really was not very good in the playoffs last year

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06-09-2014, 03:34 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges. Nash and Toews serve extremely different roles on their respective teams. One guy is a goal scoring winger, the other is a shutdown center. But since you insist on using that idiotic comparison, Toews still put up 22 points in those 36 games during his "goal drought," as a shutdown center. Nash has put up 15 points in 34 games as a scoring winger, while getting much better zone starts. Nash has been put in a better position to succeed, and is failing.
You act like Toews is Boyle

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06-09-2014, 03:34 PM
  #163
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Toews is a shutdown center? since when?

is he a good 2-way center (specifically the defensive side?)?

sure. a shutdown center? really?

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06-09-2014, 03:44 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges. Nash and Toews serve extremely different roles on their respective teams. One guy is a goal scoring winger, the other is a shutdown center. But since you insist on using that idiotic comparison, Toews still put up 22 points in those 36 games during his "goal drought," as a shutdown center. Nash has put up 15 points in 34 games as a scoring winger, while getting much better zone starts. Nash has been put in a better position to succeed, and is failing.
Yeah playing with Kane and hossa and on the pp is def at a much bigger disadvantage than playing on the pk and having line mates of Stepan and Kreider.

Whether you like it or not Nash has slumped just like toews and gaborik have in the past but he is playing an all around game which you love to ignore cuz he isn't scoring.

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06-09-2014, 03:48 PM
  #165
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Maybe the Blackhawks should have had their "shutdown center" on kopitar.....

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06-09-2014, 03:54 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by RangersFan View Post
Oh god, comparing him to Toews now...Rick Nash defense force has gone off the deep end.
Oh, why would you say that? Definitely an easy comparison, i mean Nash has a few cups right? Oh wait nevermind.

I haven't seen Nash live up to the hype he had when he joined the team. He constantly stick handles too much and loses the puck, either through his own fumbling or falling down. All I have is an image of him coming over the blue line on the right side, trying to do some fancy stick handling, falling down and the other team grabbing the puck and going down the other way. I'm pretty surprised at the Nash defensiveness on the board, most fans would want him out after 2 weeks, but I guess some people have a real soft spot for him. To me, he just doesn't finish. We need guys who can finish and are a threat every time they're on the ice. I definitely don't feel Nash is a threat on the ice:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/3153/gamelog/

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJCNYR View Post
The Rick Nash is here "to score goals" is getting old. Rick Nash was brought here to WIN games and the Rangers have been doing that. He has been playing great and just hasn't scored. If you want a one-dimensional goal scorer go cheer for OVI. If you want an all-around player who has done everything but score to help this team win then cheer for Nash.
For his price, he should be AT LEAST assisting on a regular basis; something MSL was doing when we got him. He wasn't scoring, but he was at least part of the play. Nash is constantly coasting, keep your eyes on him through the game and 75% of the time he is gliding around with his stick on his thighs watching the game. In order to WIN games you need to score, something the Rangers have had problems with for years since Jagr. At the end of the day, if you don't produce, you aren't worth the money in my opinion.


Last edited by ReolverHF: 06-09-2014 at 04:02 PM.
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06-09-2014, 03:59 PM
  #167
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If you guys made a list of players you thought could play better, where on that list does Nash rank?

Game 2 was better for Nash. I can give accolades about his defensive, hitting game and they'd be sincere, but this is the Stanley Cup finals.

In order to win the Cup the Rangers need some player(s) to play great, not just fine. Nash is the best candidate to elevate his game, he has the talent, the physical gifts, he's not that old or that young, not apparently injured, what is the excuse? Not like people are asking Boyle to play outside of his talent level here, this is Rick Nash. Is asking for him to take charge of the puck and bring it to the net when he has a chance to do so asking too much?

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06-09-2014, 04:05 PM
  #168
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Not like people are asking Boyle to play outside of his talent level here?
That's the sad part. The fourth line, including Boyle, are doing their jobs. They're supposed to pressure, bring energy, and not get scored on. Boyle, Moore, and Dorsett are constantly noticeable chasing pucks and checking. Nash's job is to score. He's not doing that.

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06-09-2014, 04:08 PM
  #169
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Comparing cups now. I forgot a team award should be how you compare 2 indivuduals. According to this logic we better not compare hank to Crawford.

We don't have a soft spot for Nash. Just most of us realize Nash despite his slump is playing well. We all want him to score and know what he is capable off. Goal scorers go through droughts but instead of him trying to do too much and overcompensate, he is playing a team style game and using his body to be physical and playing a 2 way game.

Btw when was the last time you have seen Kreider or Stepan set up Nash for any kind of play? Pretty tough when you are playing mostly against the top defensive pair and doing a lot by yourself.

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06-09-2014, 04:09 PM
  #170
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Do people not realize that stars get shutdown pretty often in the playoffs? In a short series, the other defense focuses on your team more and plans to shutdown key guys. Depth is often the reason a team wins a cup.

That said Nash has underperformed, but he has not been playing bad hockey

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06-09-2014, 04:15 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
If you guys made a list of players you thought could play better, where on that list does Nash rank?

Game 2 was better for Nash. I can give accolades about his defensive, hitting game and they'd be sincere, but this is the Stanley Cup finals.

In order to win the Cup the Rangers need some player(s) to play great, not just fine. Nash is the best candidate to elevate his game, he has the talent, the physical gifts, he's not that old or that young, not apparently injured, what is the excuse? Not like people are asking Boyle to play outside of his talent level here, this is Rick Nash. Is asking for him to take charge of the puck and bring it to the net when he has a chance to do so asking too much?
The thing i dont get at all about the "hes not playign well" folks or the "he needs to score goals" folks is that the entire argument is all about the actual statistical production.

Again, how would he play better? Ok, he needs to turn his wrist over a quarter of an inch on one of his shots and that means he goes from being a bum to being our best forward.

thats the difference....literally.

or maybe, he needs the NHL posts to be a little more oval shaped than round shape so that his perfect passes to Kreider arent off the post for a potential game winning goal.

It woudl be one thing if he were playing like Richards where you can literally pick apart things that hes doing wrong that are obvious to anyone.

Win a board battle, Skate harder, no stupid passes up the middle. no coasting.

nobody can find any or many examples of things hes doing wrong. its the same old argument.

hes not scoring

oh really? thanks guys! we cant see that! now, you go and FIX that problem.

How?

HOW?

How is he supposed to play better.

Its so effing easy to say stuff like..he needs to produce.

If production is everything that leads up until the shot is released from his stick, then hes doing, literally, everything you can possible ask from him.

shooting the puck, passing the puck, defending, controlling the puck, nullifying the other lines top players, generating offensive zone time, rescuing loose pucks to reset offensive zone time, covering for pinchign defenseman, killing penalties, etc.

Pretty much the only thing hes not doing is anyhing on the PP....because AV isnt giving him PP time (amazingly).

the arguments im hearing are so vague/broad/amatuerish.

Its like, people who I know, for a fact, are very hockey smart, are making very hockey stupid arguments.

If you cant make any argument against him other than vagaries like "he needs to produce" then you really shouldnt be making an argument at all here.

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06-09-2014, 04:45 PM
  #172
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Nash doesn't drive to net with intention to score. I see him skate behind the net or take low percentage shots from the perimeters.

He is making one or two moves too many, he over stick handles...

Hes falling alot.

He doesn't look engaged enough or appears not to skate hard enough.

He doesn't get into prime areas to score goals...

How's that for examples?

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06-09-2014, 04:59 PM
  #173
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He turns and goes butt first in the slot when he is leading the rush.

He does not battle to get into prime scoring areas.

He floats shots on net for no apparent reason other than to make a line change.

Yes he is hitting and playing a decent defensive game, he should be out there looking like he is on a mission and will not be denied.

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06-09-2014, 05:06 PM
  #174
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Nash doesn't drive to net with intention to score. I see him skate behind the net or take low percentage shots from the perimeters.
doesnt drive to the net with the intention to score? so he drives to the net with the intention to do what exactly?

The shooting chart shows his shots on goal are coming in almost exactly the same areas they have this season, and throughout his career.


Quote:
He is making one or two moves too many, he over stick handles...
and yet he is leading the league in shots..so which is it, is he overhandling the puck trying to be too pretty and should be shooting more, or should he be shooting less, hold onto the puck more and find a better place/angle to shoot?
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Hes falling alot.
its a contact sport..he usually has 1 or 2 guys draped all over him. He's also drawn WAY more penalties than hes taken (i dont think hes taken a minor yet these playoffs)
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He doesn't look engaged enough or appears not to skate hard enough.
yeah, totally gonna disagree with that. like completely.....like, i question how anyone can say that...especially when all the announcers do all the time is talk about how hard the guy is trying out there...i cant believe anyone would say that...then again, this is the rangers forum, so i shouldnt be surprised.

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He doesn't get into prime areas to score goals...
again, his shot chart tells a different story.
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How's that for examples?
pretty weak if you ask me, but if thats your argument, then thats your argument.

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06-09-2014, 05:08 PM
  #175
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He turns and goes butt first in the slot when he is leading the rush.
yeah, this isnt my favorite move of his, but it actually makes a lot of sense. hes HUGE, and has a ridiculous wingspan, but putting his keister between himself and the defeseman hes essentially boxing out the other team. he usually does this to buy himself time for his linemates to get into th eplay. its usually in 1 on 3 or 1 on 4 situations...creates time and space.

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He does not battle to get into prime scoring areas.
again, wrong, look at the shot charts.
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He floats shots on net for no apparent reason other than to make a line change.
What makes more sense. Dump puck in, and change. Shoot puck in, force goalie to make stop, potentially have to stop the play, and get an offensive zone faceoff. Frankly i wish more of our guys did this when they were tired.
Quote:
Yes he is hitting and playing a decent defensive game, he should be out there looking like he is on a mission and will not be denied.
thats pretty much exactly how i see him. except he is being denied.

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