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Is Shea Weber just wasting his career/talent in Nashville?

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Old
06-07-2014, 10:41 AM
  #176
ThirdManIn
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Originally Posted by Gormo View Post
Im not trying to mock your team at all, and I think you have the best fans in the league; but Ive always questioned the pragmatism of the move.

Nashville has always needed to be economical to succeed; yet here they are suddenly with the most expensive contract in the league, while in the meantime they fail to hang onto both Suter and Timmonen.

You cant tell me this was a desirable outcome.
You can hang Suter on Poile if you want, though I believe Suter's own inability to be upfront with Poile about his intentions caused at least part of that outcome. Timonen is not on Poile at all. That summer he was forced to trade off or not re-sign several players in order to reduce payroll and make the team more attractive to buyers. Timonen and Hartnell both were forced out by an owner who nearly sold the team to Balsillie, and a guy who immediately bought a team in direction competition with Nashville for WC playoff spots (yeah I'm still bothered by that guy and his "business moves").

As for Weber's contract, I'm sure the team can handle it. They spent six days going over the implications to both the hockey operations side of the organization and the business operations side. On top of that, billionaire and minority owner W. Brett Wilson was quoted on a radio program shortly after the OS match as saying, "I think some teams in this league underestimate the depths of the pockets in Nashville." They'll be fine with it.

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06-07-2014, 10:50 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by PuckSeparator View Post
He signed a sheet of paper stating that he wanted to be elsewhere yet, afterwards, when that was no longer possible, he starts saying the right things to mend the wounds he initially created with Predator fans as his option of playing for a contender and a better market was no longer there? I guess players only say things they mean 100% of the time.
Poile and Nashville ownership, including Brett Wilson, stated before any offersheets were signed that they would match ANYTHING offered. Poile's offer was around $7 mil per, but was not a lifelong contract. Weber had one chance to sign a lifelong contract, since the CBA was changing, and Poile wasn't going to give it to him. His options were sign a shorter term contract, with less security for the future and less upfront money, or sign the offersheet. He knew it was going to be matched, but he wouldn't have signed the offersheet if he didn't want to play for the Flyers or the Predators.

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06-07-2014, 10:58 AM
  #178
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With Rinne, Jones, Weber, Josi they got really solid G and D, and they have made some nice moves lately (Forsberg trade) etc.
Hes not wasting anything, imo, if they pull off some decent FA signings they have a competeive team with a decent shot at the cup.

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06-07-2014, 11:00 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by FlyerFire View Post
If I recall correctly,Pronger won 2 cups. I think Nashville could too. They historically have had a good team there
Pronger has one cup. Lost finals to Carolina when he was in Edmonton.

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06-07-2014, 11:12 AM
  #180
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I'm sure he is enjoying his life living in Nashville.

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06-07-2014, 11:30 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Privy View Post
Poile and Nashville ownership, including Brett Wilson, stated before any offersheets were signed that they would match ANYTHING offered. Poile's offer was around $7 mil per, but was not a lifelong contract. Weber had one chance to sign a lifelong contract, since the CBA was changing, and Poile wasn't going to give it to him. His options were sign a shorter term contract, with less security for the future and less upfront money, or sign the offersheet. He knew it was going to be matched, but he wouldn't have signed the offersheet if he didn't want to play for the Flyers or the Predators.
Exactly. We will never know, but I have a feeling if any team would have sent that same offer sheet instead of Philly, he would have signed it. There is no coincidence in the fact that he changed agents before he began contract negotiations. He wanted someone who could get him the most money possible before the CBA changed, and it worked.

As you said, he wouldn't have signed it if he didn't want to play in Philly, but if he really just wanted out of Nashville because he was not OK with the idea of spending his career there he wouldn't have signed anything considering all of the comments about Nashville's intent to match. He would have taken a short term deal, and he would have gone to UFA where he would have made a ton of money anyway.

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06-07-2014, 11:37 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
Nashville matching that offer sheet was probably the worst management decision in recent memory. I understand the importance of wanting to keep a franchise player...but when you have that much money tied up into one guy, it is hard for a smaller market team to build a winner.

Letting Weber go and getting four first rounders would have been a much better long term scenario for the Preds IMO. Having 9 first round picks in half a decade could build a lethal team...especially when your organization is already good at drafting/developing in the later rounds.

Maybe they will find a way to get Weber the supporting cast he needs...but I think it was too much of a burden financially to take on that contract.
Nashville isn't hurting financially. Star players get paid the big bucks. I don't understand why other teams don't receive flak for shelling out huge contracts for star players, yet it's always "Nashville can't afford Shea Weber's contract".

Also, those 4 draft picks could have turned out to be complete busts. Philadelphia likely doesn't pick in the Top 10 for ANY of them. There's a decent chance some of them could have turned into solid NHL players, but I guarantee that none of them will come close to Shea Weber's level.

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06-07-2014, 11:45 AM
  #183
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Yes, he is wasting his career in Nashville. I'm not sure how Poile still has a job, Nashville has desperately needed legitimate forwards since their inception. He is great at drafting dmen but you have to score a goal every now and then to win.

This team is ****, after Suter left they are a bottom 10 team.

I hope for his sake, he can get out of there.

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06-07-2014, 11:46 AM
  #184
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He'd be way better off in the Mecca of sports and culture that is Winnipeg. Imagine Shea Weber playing for the powerhouse that is the Jets.

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06-07-2014, 11:49 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
Nashville isn't hurting financially. Star players get paid the big bucks. I don't understand why other teams don't receive flak for shelling out huge contracts for star players, yet it's always "Nashville can't afford Shea Weber's contract".

Also, those 4 draft picks could have turned out to be complete busts. Philadelphia likely doesn't pick in the Top 10 for ANY of them. There's a decent chance some of them could have turned into solid NHL players, but I guarantee that none of them will come close to Shea Weber's level.
Most fans around these boards don't even want to recognize the right of your franchise to even exist. Let alone hold the rights to pieces they actually covet. This isn't a performance issue at its core. It's a geography issue. If it snowed more in Nashville, this wouldn't be a thread.

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06-07-2014, 11:58 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Fire Shero View Post
Yes, he is wasting his career in Nashville. I'm not sure how Poile still has a job, Nashville has desperately needed legitimate forwards since their inception. He is great at drafting dmen but you have to score a goal every now and then to win.

This team is ****, after Suter left they are a bottom 10 team.

I hope for his sake, he can get out of there.
This is ignoring a few things. First, they have only been a bottom 10 team once since losing Suter. Second, it isn't because of Suter that the lockout year team was bottom ten. It's because that team was riding essentially an entire group of AHLers in the top six. So you take a team already lacking in NHL-level offensive production, take away the guys with experience and toss in some guys with no experience. Bad results. Third, Suter's position was covered extraordinarily well by Josi. The biggest hole was on the second pair, which, with Klein anchoring it at the time, was the shut down pair. Moving Josi up meant there was a significant hole. I guess Hamhuis leaving was as much to blame as Suter leaving

As for this past season, for the 100th time in this thread alone, Nashville was three points out of the play offs after having some pathetic goaltending. It was so bad that Poile traded for Dubnyk. AHL-level goaltending for over 50 games and still three points out at the end? That isn't the description of a bottom ten team. It's the description of a team right there in the mix. Rinne looked stellar in the WCs. Seems like he's fully recovered and ready to go for next season.

And while Nashville has had a lot of teams with poor offensive ability, you're glossing over some teams that were actually very good in the other team's end. 2005-2007 had a bunch of fire power (Kariya, Forsberg, Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, Hartnell, Legwand and Erat were productive, etc). 2010-2011 was a year in which the team, lacking any superstar up front, was top ten in offense and number one on the power play. This past season Nashville finished with more goals than a team often looked at as being offensively capable (Edmonton) and a team currently playing in the Stanley Cup Finals (LA).

The notion that Nashville has always been mired in mediocrity, always facing the same issue, is nonsense and it's driven by simple repetition. Weber has been on a team in a position to compete several times. His rookie season he came into that. Since coming into the NHL Weber's teams have missed the playoffs all of three times, and only one of those times was the team actually in the basement.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-07-2014 at 12:11 PM. Reason: meant "losing Suter" not "trading Suter"
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06-07-2014, 12:09 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
This is ignoring a few things. First, they have only been a bottom 10 team once since trading Suter. Second, it isn't because of Suter that the lockout year team bottom ten. It's because that team was riding essentially an entire group of AHLers in the top six. So you take a team already lacking in NHL-level offensive production, take away the guys with experience and toss in some guys with no experience. Bad results. Third, Suter's position was covered extraordinarily well by Josi. The biggest hole was on the second pair, which, with Klein anchoring it at the time, was the shut down pair. Moving Josi up meant there was a significant hole. I guess Hamhuis leaving was as much to blame as Suter leaving

As for this past season, for the 100th time in this thread alone, Nashville was three points out of the play offs after having some pathetic goaltending. It was so bad that Poile traded for Dubnyk. AHL-level goaltending for over 50 games and still three points out at the end? That isn't the description of a bottom ten team. It's the description of a team right there in the mix. Rinne looked stellar in the WCs. Seems like he's fully recovered and ready to go for next season.

And while Nashville has had a lot of teams with poor offensive ability, you're glossing over some teams that were actually very good in the other team's end. 2005-2007 had a bunch of fire power (Kariya, Forsberg, Arnott, Sullivan, Dumont, Hartnell, Legwand and Erat were productive, etc). 2010-2011 was a year in which the team, lacking any superstar up front, was top ten in offense and number one on the power play. This past season Nashville finished with more goals than a team often looked at as being offensively capable (Edmonton) and a team currently playing in the Stanley Cup Finals (LA).

The notion that Nashville has always been mired in mediocrity, always facing the same issue, is nonsense and it's driven by simple repetition. Weber has been on a team in a position to compete several times. His rookie season he came into that. Since coming into the NHL Weber's teams have missed the playoffs all of three times, and only one of those times was the team actually in the basement.
And ThirdManIn drops the mic.../thread

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06-07-2014, 01:04 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Most fans around these boards don't even want to recognize the right of your franchise to even exist. Let alone hold the rights to pieces they actually covet. This isn't a performance issue at its core. It's a geography issue. If it snowed more in Nashville, this wouldn't be a thread.
You hit the nail right on the head. This is about jealousy we have a player of Weber's caliber and disdain for the market. Like I asked before is Kessel wasting his talents in Toronto? They have had one winning season and playoff appearance in his time there. Weber has had one losing season here and missed the playoffs by a few points two other times.


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06-07-2014, 05:14 PM
  #189
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I think it's funny that the stereotype is that southern hockey fans are the ones that are supposed to be completely uneducated and not know **** anything about the sport, yet they're not the ones spewing out stupid statements like how Nashville has supposedly always been a **** team or how we somehow have financial issues.

Sounds like the ignorant hockey "fans" aren't in the sunbelt like these boards would have you believe.

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06-07-2014, 05:27 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Most fans around these boards don't even want to recognize the right of your franchise to even exist. Let alone hold the rights to pieces they actually covet. This isn't a performance issue at its core. It's a geography issue. If it snowed more in Nashville, this wouldn't be a thread.
imo it's mostly small market vs big market. Big market teams often think that the smaller teams in the league should function as a development pool for their teams. It's just like the Yankees poaching talent across the MLB. They have the most money, so of course it is the natural order of things.

Big market teams have the same attitude towards small market teams where it snows. Edmonton was serving bigger markets for years with Cujo going to the Leafs, Weight and Guerin heading to Dallas (sunbelt team), etc.

Even now it seems like the biggest markets are the ones who like imagining they will end up with the Oilers' young players now.

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06-07-2014, 05:36 PM
  #191
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If the next 3-4 seasons go by and Nashville fails to make the playoffs then I'd say yes.

With Rinne and Weber they have a decent chance of a quick turnaround though, much better than other rebuilding/retooling teams.

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06-07-2014, 05:42 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
imo it's mostly small market vs big market. Big market teams often think that the smaller teams in the league should function as a development pool for their teams. It's just like the Yankees poaching talent across the MLB. They have the most money, so of course it is the natural order of things.

Big market teams have the same attitude towards small market teams where it snows. Edmonton was serving bigger markets for years with Cujo going to the Leafs, Weight and Guerin heading to Dallas (sunbelt team), etc.

Even now it seems like the biggest markets are the ones who like imagining they will end up with the Oilers' young players now.
Yeah, I guess most "Northern" folks are probably about ready to recognize the LA Kings right to exist.

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06-07-2014, 05:47 PM
  #193
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Is Kessel just wasting his talent in Toronto?
Is Karlsson just wasting his talent in Ottawa?
Is Kane just wasting his talent in Winnipeg?
Is Tavares just wasting his talent in New York?
Is Schneider just wasting his talent in New Jersey?
Is Staal just wasting his talent in Carolina?
Is Hall just wasting his talent in Edmonton?

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06-07-2014, 06:06 PM
  #194
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How in the world did they miss by only 3 points? I'd felt like they were around 12th or 13th in the West, could hardly believe it when I just looked at the standings.
They were pretty far out of it for the first half of the season. Vancovers epic nose dive really opened the door for a lot of teams.

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06-07-2014, 06:32 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by nilssont View Post
Pronger has one cup. Lost finals to Carolina when he was in Edmonton.
And lost one with Philly against CHI

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06-07-2014, 06:33 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Is Kessel just wasting his talent in Toronto?
Is Karlsson just wasting his talent in Ottawa?
Is Kane just wasting his talent in Winnipeg?
Is Tavares just wasting his talent in New York?
Is Schneider just wasting his talent in New Jersey?
Is Staal just wasting his talent in Carolina?
Is Hall just wasting his talent in Edmonton?
Well, Staal won a Cup once with the Canes. Not the bestttttt example.

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06-07-2014, 06:57 PM
  #197
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Shea Weber dun Goofed.

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06-07-2014, 07:27 PM
  #198
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Wasting what?

In the next 3 years Weber will collect $40 million and lots more to come.

Not sure what kind of career move could get better for a hockey player.

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06-07-2014, 09:46 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
You can hang Suter on Poile if you want, though I believe Suter's own inability to be upfront with Poile about his intentions caused at least part of that outcome. Timonen is not on Poile at all. That summer he was forced to trade off or not re-sign several players in order to reduce payroll and make the team more attractive to buyers. Timonen and Hartnell both were forced out by an owner who nearly sold the team to Balsillie, and a guy who immediately bought a team in direction competition with Nashville for WC playoff spots (yeah I'm still bothered by that guy and his "business moves").

As for Weber's contract, I'm sure the team can handle it. They spent six days going over the implications to both the hockey operations side of the organization and the business operations side. On top of that, billionaire and minority owner W. Brett Wilson was quoted on a radio program shortly after the OS match as saying, "I think some teams in this league underestimate the depths of the pockets in Nashville." They'll be fine with it.
Sounds really unfortunate, I cant blame any team for not being able to anticipate that kind of thing.

Still, I think both parties should have done whatever was necessary to hammer out a deal and extend Weber's contract;

I figure the Preds ought to have learned by that time the risks involved by not taking care of the problem before it was too late on account of the massive offer sheets that would surely come.


Last edited by Gormo: 06-07-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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06-07-2014, 09:51 PM
  #200
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Shea Weber dun Goofed.
Weber definitely was aiming to leave Nashville, but he had to have known that there was a chance that Nashville would match the offer sheet. He had to have been comfortable with staying in Nashville to some degree.

If not, he should have fired his agent, although I think he would still be entitled to his percentage of Weber's deal so lol

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