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Justin Schultz's contract

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06-06-2014, 04:39 PM
  #26
Mr Positive
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
They don't have capable defenders with Schultz, so I'm not sure how that's a good negotiating angle.
How does our thin blueline make our best asset back there expendable?

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06-06-2014, 04:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
the Subban deal was signed in a very different situation. Montreal had almost no cap space at all, the cap was artificially tanked because of the lockout, and that is a huge factor when making a good faith deal with a player. It's hard to justify chiseling Schultz on his deal when we have cap space laying around doing nothing.

I also got to love everyone getting angry and wanting him traded. First off, this is just speculation. Second, moving Schultz isn't a big option for us. We need him a lot more than he needs us. He is a big piece of this team going forward and he'll get a fair contract I'm sure.
I don't feel some cap alterations can justify giving a lazy kid who can't play D 20% more than a recent Norris trophy winner.

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06-06-2014, 04:47 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
I don't feel some cap alterations can justify giving a lazy kid who can't play D 20% more than a recent Norris trophy winner.
That opinion is only held by small minority of the fanbase and exactly no one in charge of the team.

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06-06-2014, 04:52 PM
  #29
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That opinion is only held by small minority of the fanbase and exactly no one in charge of the team.
And that is why we are last every year.

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06-06-2014, 04:53 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
the Subban deal was signed in a very different situation. Montreal had almost no cap space at all, the cap was artificially tanked because of the lockout, and that is a huge factor when making a good faith deal with a player. It's hard to justify chiseling Schultz on his deal when we have cap space laying around doing nothing.

I also got to love everyone getting angry and wanting him traded. First off, this is just speculation. Second, moving Schultz isn't a big option for us. We need him a lot more than he needs us. He is a big piece of this team going forward and he'll get a fair contract I'm sure.
How is he a big part of the future if he can't even play defence? He can hold the puck and look pretty at the point, but he's not even putting up sublime offensive numbers to make up for his atrocious defense. Let alone the number of SHG against we have had this season with him playing point man on defense....
No way he deserves what he's speculated to be asking for. He needs to show a hell of a lot more to get what he wants.

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06-06-2014, 04:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
And that is why we are last every year.
The Oilers are last every year because they never bring in capable NHLers to support and shelter our young players (Schultz for example).

The problem with Justin Schultz isn't Justin Schultz. The problem with him is that the Oilers thought it would be okay to take a 22/23 year old player highly touted for his offensive game, give him 23 minutes a night and pair him with one of Andrew Ference or Nick Schultz. They've played him way over his head from day one with players who have no business being top 4 NHL d-men anymore in this league.

Justin Schultz isn't some lazy player. He's just one more guy in a long list that this organization has failed to properly bring into the league. Instead of sheltering him they threw him right into the fire without any sort of suitable insulation. People shouldn't be surprised that he's struggled.


Last edited by Spawn: 06-06-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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06-06-2014, 05:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
I don't feel some cap alterations can justify giving a lazy kid who can't play D 20% more than a recent Norris trophy winner.
Subban didn't sign that contract after winning the Norris.

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06-06-2014, 05:24 PM
  #33
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Our D is what it is this year. With Scrivens and Fasth we are a .500 team. Add the fact Oilers have 2 dangerous top 2 lines. We should be borderline playoffs team. If we can add Markov, kulemin, fayne, etc. Who knows? Oilers could go pretty far.
that's what was said last year and the year before, at the very least.
with the defense as bad it is, the Oilers will not be even close to a .500 team without adding someone like Weber or Chara. let alone borderline playoffs.

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06-06-2014, 06:29 PM
  #34
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Subban didn't sign that contract after winning the Norris.
Did he sign it after being -22, and refusing to shoot the puck and throw hits?

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06-06-2014, 06:39 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by canovin View Post
Our D is what it is this year. With Scrivens and Fasth we are a .500 team. Add the fact Oilers have 2 dangerous top 2 lines. We should be borderline playoffs team. If we can add Markov, kulemin, fayne, etc. Who knows? Oilers could go pretty far.


Someone's living in denial.



The Oilers need to make major changes if there's ever going to be the chance of playoffs.



You're not going to do anything productive in the NHL with the core of:

Yakupov/Hall/Eberle/RNH/Schultz/Perron/Scrivens



I guess it's going to take a few more years of not making the playoffs to get the message across.

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06-06-2014, 06:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
You're not going to do anything productive in the NHL with the core of:

Yakupov/Hall/Eberle/RNH/Schultz/Perron/Scrivens



I guess it's going to take a few more years of not making the playoffs to get the message across.
I guess it depends what your definition of 'anything productive' is.

If it's being taken to mean "be one of the top 8 teams in the Western Conference", and you're saying that we have no chance of making the playoffs with that core, then of those 7 players which ones would you consider worth keeping? Or do they all suck in your eyes and should be kicked to the curb and the re-re-re-re-rebuild should start all over again?

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06-06-2014, 06:52 PM
  #37
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I figured a Nick Leddy contract would be fair comparable for him

2 yrs / 2.7M AAV

23 yr old Leddy's 4 years in NHL

46 GP with 4 goals and 3 assists = 7 pts
82 GP with 3 goals and 34 assists = 37 pts
48 GP with 6 goals and 12 assists = 18 pts
82 GP with 7 goals and 24 assists = 31 pts

Soon to be 24 yr old Schultz's 2 years in NHL

48 GP with 8 goals and 19 assists = 27 pts
74 GP with 11 goals and 22 assists = 33 pts

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06-06-2014, 06:52 PM
  #38
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I couldn't care less about J Schultz. The kid is obviously a delusional *******. He's half the player McD is in New York. Nurse, Klefa and Marincin will all be better players.

This team will go nowhere playing players like Schultz, RNH and Eberle 6+ million a season. Hall is the only one that's earned his money.

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06-06-2014, 06:55 PM
  #39
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Agent for young player tells radio host he wants his client to sign for lots of money.

Water is wet, sky is blue, etc.

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06-06-2014, 07:14 PM
  #40
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this trade Schultz stuff is alarming. First off, this guy is an RFA and hasnt really done too much to warrant a significant return.

And Schultz has put up similiar numbers in his first 2 seasons in the NHL as Subban, Yandle, Letang and a majority of other top offensive D. yes Schultz is older, but he has been thrown into the fire as a pro. It wouldnt suprise me to see a breakout year next yeat. He has basically played 1.5 NHL seasons with no help.

Also offering him a bridge contract is not the way to go, as we are seeing with Subban.

I would risk it and offer him 4.5 * 6 years (even tho his FV right now is around 3). Heres why:

Scenerio A: Bridge contract is offered, Schultz doesnt improve: His value in a trade is basically what it is now. So we can either keep Schultz as a 3rd pairing MAB, or trade him for a bottom 6 player

Scenerio B: Bridge contract, Schultz excels in next 2 years: His value sky rockets to 6-6.5 Mil, screwing use cap wise

Scenerio C: 4.5 * 6 contract, Schultz doesnt develop: His value is the lowest in this scenerio. But he can still be traded for a 4th liner or pick. His value in A is a bit higher, but not much

Scenerio D: 4.5 * 6 years, Schultz develops into a top pairing OFD: Gravy. We have Schultz locked for 6 years at a bargain price.

even if Schultz develops into only a second pairing D, 4.5 million in years 3-4 will be the market rate for these type of D

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06-06-2014, 07:18 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
I guess it depends what your definition of 'anything productive' is.

If it's being taken to mean "be one of the top 8 teams in the Western Conference", and you're saying that we have no chance of making the playoffs with that core, then of those 7 players which ones would you consider worth keeping? Or do they all suck in your eyes and should be kicked to the curb and the re-re-re-re-rebuild should start all over again?
I'd keep Hall, RNH, Perron, and Scrivens for now. We need to upgrade Schultz and can afford to slightly downgrade on Eberle and Yakupov to help make that happen as well as help fill out the rest of the team.

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06-06-2014, 07:21 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
this trade Schultz stuff is alarming. First off, this guy is an RFA and hasnt really done too much to warrant a significant return.

And Schultz has put up similiar numbers in his first 2 seasons in the NHL as Subban, Yandle, Letang and a majority of other top offensive D. yes Schultz is older, but he has been thrown into the fire as a pro. It wouldnt suprise me to see a breakout year next yeat. He has basically played 1.5 NHL seasons with no help.

Also offering him a bridge contract is not the way to go, as we are seeing with Subban.

I would risk it and offer him 4.5 * 6 years (even tho his FV right now is around 3). Heres why:

Scenerio A: Bridge contract is offered, Schultz doesnt improve: His value in a trade is basically what it is now. So we can either keep Schultz as a 3rd pairing MAB, or trade him for a bottom 6 player

Scenerio B: Bridge contract, Schultz excels in next 2 years: His value sky rockets to 6-6.5 Mil, screwing use cap wise

Scenerio C: 4.5 * 6 contract, Schultz doesnt develop: His value is the lowest in this scenerio. But he can still be traded for a 4th liner or pick. His value in A is a bit higher, but not much

Scenerio D: 4.5 * 6 years, Schultz develops into a top pairing OFD: Gravy. We have Schultz locked for 6 years at a bargain price.

even if Schultz develops into only a second pairing D, 4.5 million in years 3-4 will be the market rate for these type of D
Have you seen the guys your comparing Schultz to play? They all looked like they had much higher upside but hadn't put it together. For me Schultz at max is a 40 point two way dman. Valuable sure but not something I wouldn't trade if there was a better option on the table.

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06-06-2014, 07:22 PM
  #43
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the Subban deal was signed in a very different situation. Montreal had almost no cap space at all, the cap was artificially tanked because of the lockout, and that is a huge factor when making a good faith deal with a player. It's hard to justify chiseling Schultz on his deal when we have cap space laying around doing nothing.

I also got to love everyone getting angry and wanting him traded. First off, this is just speculation. Second, moving Schultz isn't a big option for us. We need him a lot more than he needs us. He is a big piece of this team going forward and he'll get a fair contract I'm sure.
is he though? on a good team, schultz is a 3rd liner who can specialize on the PP to me... he is an *atrocious* defender, simply lost in his own end... no physical presence whatsoever, which is okay for his "type" of game i suppose.... but if you can't play physical defence, you have to be exceptionally good positionally, which he is most definitely not

schultz just isn't very good at the defending part of being a defenceman, end of story

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06-06-2014, 07:25 PM
  #44
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I couldn't care less about J Schultz. The kid is obviously a delusional *******. He's half the player McD is in New York. Nurse, Klefa and Marincin will all be better players.

This team will go nowhere playing players like Schultz, RNH and Eberle 6+ million a season. Hall is the only one that's earned his money.
agree with the first part, disagree with the 2nd

klefbom, marincin and nurse are all very likely to be better defenders than schultz is, no question about that... but to be honest, its not very hard to be better at defence than schultz is, because he's fairly pathetic at it actually

RNH and eberle are getting paid a bit too much right now, but as early as this year, the deals will likely be about right.... and as early as next year, especially with RNH, they could start looking like steals.... the RNH/eberle contracts were always a "long play", and were never meant to be value contracts in the first couple years

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06-06-2014, 07:25 PM
  #45
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Have you seen the guys your comparing Schultz to play? They all looked like they had much higher upside but hadn't put it together. For me Schultz at max is a 40 point two way dman. Valuable sure but not something I wouldn't trade if there was a better option on the table.
Offensive D who took a bit of time before they broke out. And yes schultz is older, but Wisconsin hasnt really produced many NHL ready D from college. Prior to him signing he was more hyped than Subban/Letang/Yandle were prior to their NHL days. He was pegged as potential Sochi 2014 candidate by TSN

I doubt well find a D with as much potential as Schultz in trade. Well find some ageing 2nd pairing D, or some D that has been in the league for 4 years that hasnt lived up to the billing. And they will come to the Oilers and be worse than Schultz, and it will suck watching him emerge as a very good offensive D


Last edited by topchowda: 06-06-2014 at 07:32 PM.
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06-06-2014, 07:26 PM
  #46
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Have you seen the guys your comparing Schultz to play? They all looked like they had much higher upside but hadn't put it together. For me Schultz at max is a 40 point two way dman. Valuable sure but not something I wouldn't trade if there was a better option on the table.
Schultz has a huge upside and the pre NHL hype and then some of many current NHL super star d men. Most great d men take time before hitting their stride. No way to know how good he will end up.

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06-06-2014, 07:35 PM
  #47
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Offensive D who took a bit of time before they broke out. And yes schultz is older, but Wisconsin hasnt really produced many NHL ready D from college.

I doubt well find a D with as much potential as Schultz in trade. Well find some ageing 2nd pairing D, or some D that has been in the league for 4 years that hasnt lived up to the billing. And they will come to the Oilers and be worse than Schultz, and it will suck watching him emerge as a very good offensive D
If he had any semblance of a slap shot I'd agree. To me he's a lot like Tom Gilbert might get you 40 points a year but most likely will end up somewhere between 30 and 35. It's not like he's a spring chicken by the time Yandle and Letang were turning 24 they both had 50 point seasons under their belt. Subban had just won the Norris at Schultz's current age.

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06-06-2014, 07:53 PM
  #48
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If he thinks hes worth 5+ right now, he can helm the package for someone like Phaneuf.

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06-06-2014, 07:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
this trade Schultz stuff is alarming. First off, this guy is an RFA and hasnt really done too much to warrant a significant return.

And Schultz has put up similiar numbers in his first 2 seasons in the NHL as Subban, Yandle, Letang and a majority of other top offensive D. yes Schultz is older, but he has been thrown into the fire as a pro. It wouldnt suprise me to see a breakout year next yeat. He has basically played 1.5 NHL seasons with no help.

Also offering him a bridge contract is not the way to go, as we are seeing with Subban.

I would risk it and offer him 4.5 * 6 years (even tho his FV right now is around 3). Heres why:

Scenerio A: Bridge contract is offered, Schultz doesnt improve: His value in a trade is basically what it is now. So we can either keep Schultz as a 3rd pairing MAB, or trade him for a bottom 6 player

Scenerio B: Bridge contract, Schultz excels in next 2 years: His value sky rockets to 6-6.5 Mil, screwing use cap wise

Scenerio C: 4.5 * 6 contract, Schultz doesnt develop: His value is the lowest in this scenerio. But he can still be traded for a 4th liner or pick. His value in A is a bit higher, but not much

Scenerio D: 4.5 * 6 years, Schultz develops into a top pairing OFD: Gravy. We have Schultz locked for 6 years at a bargain price.

even if Schultz develops into only a second pairing D, 4.5 million in years 3-4 will be the market rate for these type of D
I ask you, what's worse: Paying top dollar for a good proven player? Or, paying for a player who isn't what you thought he'd be?

The risk on a 2.5M, 2 year deal? He proves himself and we pay him because he's good.

The risk on a 4.5M, 6 year deal? He sucks, and now you have an overpaid MAB who you have trouble trading.

I'll take option one. Subban is a lot different player by the way. Dynamic, physical. Schultz right now is a third pairing D-man asked to play 23 minutes a night. He's a lot closer to the Del Zotto or Leddy comparables you see with him. He also has no slap shot to speak of.

I won't be surprised if Schultz turns into, say, Visnovsky, but there are Visnovsky types out there via trade right now that at worse would make trading him an even cause, if he truly does turn out.

Sam Gagner, 24 years old, C, at 4.8M, currently has seemingly negative value on HF. At least his deal was short term.

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06-06-2014, 07:58 PM
  #50
Moose Coleman
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How does our thin blueline make our best asset back there expendable?
I'm confused: I thought we were talking about Justin Schultz.

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