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Justin Schultz's contract

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Old
06-07-2014, 01:46 PM
  #76
Moose Coleman
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
Justin Schultz plays over a minute per game more even strength than Petry. That's a big margin. Make no mistake. Schultz is our #1D. Not Petry. Petry is the 2nd line shut down guy.
It's a role Schultz is categorically unsuited for at this point.

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Justin Schultz is a linchpin D because he is by far our best puck mover.
For a guy who is supposed to be a good puck mover and who doesn't even play the other team's best he's pretty poor at moving the puck.

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The reason it is a bad is because he's too inexperienced to be a 1D in the NHL and he is given bottom pairing talent to play with. If were in Seth Jones' shoes and got to play with someone like Weber he would an unquestioned future top pairing D in this league. On the Oilers he is set up to fail. That's not Justin's fault.
I don't buy that it's all his linemates' fault. First off, you ignore the fact he gets to play with the best forwards. What's more his partners aren't the ones making him abandon the slot at important moments. They aren't the ones making him drag his ass on the backcheck. He makes a host of basic mental mistakes and poor decisions that can in no way be laid at the feet of his partners. That's on him.

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The Oilers D with Schultz on the ice is very predictable. Schultz is the only one who can move the puck so just focus all attention on him and the Oil will crumble. Ference and Nick Schultz just fought for the puck along the boards and would feed it to Justin so he could start the play. The reason they do better away from Schultz is because Schultz is on the top pairing. When Ference and Nick Schultz get demoted so they can hide on the bottom pairing of course they look better. Their expectation is lower.
Everyone does better away from Schultz. Where are they hiding?

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It is easier to play a shutdown role than play transitional D. Shutdown D always have the option to just ditch the puck out of the zone. Transitional D have to be creative. They have to find passes. They have to drive the offense. That is what Schultz did. That's what a top pairing Dman does. Shutdown defensemen play it safe with the puck. Schultz couldn't afford to.
Except part of being a defender is getting the puck away from the other team. Schultz doesn't do that. And he doesn't play well enough with the puck when he does have it.

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First off his minutes prove he is our top pariing Dman.
They don't show him being good at it.

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It might also surprise you to learn that most of Schultz' points were 5 on 5.
It's basically an even split.

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I suppose you mean the role he should be playing. The idea is that Eakins just doesn't know what he's doing and should be giving Petry all these minutes. Let me ask you this: who is supposed to move the puck? Right now Schultz is basically alone on this team. Demoting him makes zero sense.
Petry is a good puck mover. Marincin certainly displayed that ability as well in a small sample. Schultz isn't even that special in that regard. On Schultz versus Petry, I'll quote Tyler Dellow who looked at that very question:

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Over the past two seasons, the Oilers have generated more shots and allowed fewer shots when Jeff Petry is on the ice than they have when Justin Schultz is on the ice. They’ve scored more goals and allowed fewer goals when Jeff Petry is on the ice than they have when Justin Schultz is on the ice. No matter how you slice it, they’ve done better with Petry on the ice and it’s by a substantial margin. Unless someone has some argument that I can’t imagine, Petry’s their best defenceman at 5v5.
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Getting him another capable top pairing puck mover makes too much sense
Agree, hopefully someone that can cover for Schultz's brain cramps if we have to keep him.

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Plus minus is one of the most abused stats out there. It MUST be taken along with context. Saying that removing the minus player will solve all the problems is an example of abusing the plus minus stat
Who said anything about plus/minus? Look at the advanced stats. He's a Corsi anchor.

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As long as Schultz is playing on our top pairing with bottom pairing talents like Ference you cannot blame Schultz on everything that goes wrong on the team and even with his own stats.
So he's to get all credit for anything good and no blame for anything bad. Gotcha.

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06-07-2014, 01:56 PM
  #77
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I'm surprised at anyone who is so willing to move Schultz out after being basically 1.5 years of NHL play.

It just seems so remarkably short sighted.

Justin Schultz is unsuited to be a top pairing d-man at this stage of his career. That doesn't mean you trade him away. That means you bring in a player or two to move him down the depth chart and develop him properly.

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06-07-2014, 01:56 PM
  #78
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He is going to get paid its a matter of dealing with it.

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06-07-2014, 02:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I'm surprised at anyone who is so willing to move Schultz out after being basically 1.5 years of NHL play.

It just seems so remarkably short sighted.

Justin Schultz is unsuited to be a top pairing d-man at this stage of his career. That doesn't mean you trade him away. That means you bring in a player or two to move him down the depth chart and develop him properly.
For me one of Petry or Schultz need to be upgraded. I'd be exploring trade options for both and see what you can get and weigh your options from there.

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06-07-2014, 02:40 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
It's a role Schultz is categorically unsuited for at this point.



For a guy who is supposed to be a good puck mover and who doesn't even play the other team's best he's pretty poor at moving the puck.

I don't buy that it's all his linemates' fault. First off, you ignore the fact he gets to play with the best forwards. What's more his partners aren't the ones making him abandon the slot at important moments. They aren't the ones making him drag his ass on the backcheck. He makes a host of basic mental mistakes and poor decisions that can in no way be laid at the feet of his partners. That's on him.


Everyone does better away from Schultz. Where are they hiding?


Except part of being a defender is getting the puck away from the other team. Schultz doesn't do that. And he doesn't play well enough with the puck when he does have it.

They don't show him being good at it.

Petry is a good puck mover. Marincin certainly displayed that ability as well in a small sample. Schultz isn't even that special in that regard. On Schultz versus Petry, I'll quote Tyler Dellow who looked at that very question:

Agree, hopefully someone that can cover for Schultz's brain cramps if we have to keep him.

Who said anything about plus/minus? Look at the advanced stats. He's a Corsi anchor.

So he's to get all credit for anything good and no blame for anything bad. Gotcha.
First off, I'm not going to say that Schultz is without blame in all of this, it's just that with player at such a young stage in his career we should be looking at him in a developmental way and avoid making these solid conclusions about him. Also, negative elements of his game are to be expected, and to be assumed to get better over time.

Again, over and over you delibrately choose to paint Schultz in the worst light possible. Posters before me were talking plus minus, you were talking plus minus, and now you are pretending nobody was talking plus minus. Advanced stats were brought up, I showed that Schultz was not sheltered in the least, and yet you continue to pretend that the point wasn't made.

Every player is better away from Schultz? Like I said, the reason is that he is put in a position to fail. The only experienced top 4 D we have is Petry, and he happens to play the same side as Schultz and so Schultz never gets to play with him. This isn't about Schultz vs Petry. Ideally we would keep both.

Marincin has looked better than Schultz but look at how perfect he has it. He gets to play with a quality top 4 D like Petry, someone he can learn from since they are similar players, and yet Marincin is better than Petry in some ways such as puck moving which gives the pairing a truly collaborative identity.

And no, Petry is not nearly as good a puck mover as Justin Schultz. Also as good as Marincin was, he is still not that player either. If Petry were, he would get as much even strength ice time as Schultz, but he doesn't. Why do you think Eakins plays Schultz that much and with those linemates and in those situations? Because he likes Justin's hair? Because Eakins is just sooo clueless? Give me a break

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06-07-2014, 02:44 PM
  #81
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Can people please stop calling him young? He's turning 24 next month.
Seriously? He's a 23 year old who has played 1.5 NHL seasons, should I call him a vet?
I'm floored at some of the comments in this thread about trading him or insinuating that he has peaked or that he still plays absolutely no defense. Actually, I'm not too surprised because there are some here who are ready to trade RNH and Eberle after some recent struggles.
I guess since Schultz is already the old used up toy, is Marincin the new shiny toy now? It seems like it.

It's obvious that he has a long ways to go but I did see some subtle improvements in his defensive game as the season wore on and it looked like he was making more of an effort to shoot more as well. He's still very inexperienced and has all the tools to be a very good offensive defenseman so he has plenty of room to grow still.
You just don't trade a guy like that because his agency is pushing for a big contract. It's called negotiations. I'm sure that the two sides will come to some sort of middleground and hopefully a bridge contract towards a bigger 3rd contract if he earns it.


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06-07-2014, 02:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Seriously? He's a 23 year old who has played 1.5 NHL seasons, should I call him a vet?
I'm floored at some of the comments in this thread about trading him or insinuating that he has peaked or that he still plays absolutely no defense. Actually, I'm not too surprised because there are some here who are ready to trade RNH and Eberle after some recent struggles.
I guess since Schultz is already the old used up toy, is Marincin the new shiny toy now? It seems like it.
It is really silly. "Short-sighted", as Spawn said, is a very good way to put it. I realize some are impatient but turfing the young players because they haven't reached their potential at 23 doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do.

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06-07-2014, 02:55 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Seriously? He's a 23 year old who has played 1.5 NHL seasons, should I call him a vet?
I'm floored at some of the comments in this thread about trading him or insinuating that he has peaked or that he still plays absolutely no defense. Actually, I'm not too surprised because there are some here who are ready to trade RNH and Eberle after some recent struggles.
I guess since Schultz is already the old used up toy, is Marincin the new shiny toy now? It seems like it.

It's obvious that he has a long ways to go but he's still very inexperienced and has all the tools to be a very good offensive defenseman. You just don't trade a guy like that because his agency is pushing for a big contract. It's called negotiations. I'm sure that the two sides will come to some sort of middleground and hopefully a bridge contract towards a bigger 3rd contract if he earns it.
14's the new 19, 23 is the new 35. Gagner should be about ready to retire at the end of the year.

Man, I almost want him to be traded to a Pittsburgh or a Chicago for a first just to see him go full Karlsson. All agencies push for a big contract. Calm down. Can't imagine this board if they had to deal with what Montreal's going through with Subban.
He's elite offensively now . If we can bring someone in to lessen the defensive load, he'll be fine.

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06-07-2014, 03:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
It is really silly. "Short-sighted", as Spawn said, is a very good way to put it. I realize some are impatient but turfing the young players because they haven't reached their potential at 23 doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do.
It's aggravating to no end.
I have gotten frustrated with the youngsters a lot too during the season (Hall included) and have gone off on tangents about how this core just won't just won't cut it but when I cool down from the initial rage, I realize how young these players are and what little support they have received so they aren't the main problem.

In Schultz's case, he has been thrown into the fire from Day One, has had little support to lean on and has had to deal with 2 different coaches with completely different philosophies in his 2 short years here. I bet if he stayed in Anaheim (which he probably should have in retrospect), he would already be a legit top 4 defenseman. It's going to take time with him and I think having the stability of the same coach for a 2nd straight year and not having to adjust to a new system will help him along. It would be nice if MacT added a top 4 veteran presence as well.

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06-07-2014, 03:11 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by nofool6110 View Post
14's the new 19, 23 is the new 35. Gagner should be about ready to retire at the end of the year.

Man, I almost want him to be traded to a Pittsburgh or a Chicago for a first just to see him go full Karlsson. All agencies push for a big contract. Calm down. Can't imagine this board if they had to deal with what Montreal's going through with Subban.
He's elite offensively now . If we can bring someone in to lessen the defensive load, he'll be fine.
Yikes.. Elite offensively? When you say elite offensively I think Karlsson, Keith, and Byfuglien..... Justin Schultz isn't even in the same company, please don't say he's elite offensively, he's done absolutely nothing to warrant that kind of praise

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06-07-2014, 03:58 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Seriously? He's a 23 year old who has played 1.5 NHL seasons, should I call him a vet?
I'm floored at some of the comments in this thread about trading him or insinuating that he has peaked or that he still plays absolutely no defense. Actually, I'm not too surprised because there are some here who are ready to trade RNH and Eberle after some recent struggles.
I guess since Schultz is already the old used up toy, is Marincin the new shiny toy now? It seems like it.

It's obvious that he has a long ways to go but I did see some subtle improvements in his defensive game as the season wore on and it looked like he was making more of an effort to shoot more as well. He's still very inexperienced and has all the tools to be a very good offensive defenseman so he has plenty of room to grow still.
You just don't trade a guy like that because his agency is pushing for a big contract. It's called negotiations. I'm sure that the two sides will come to some sort of middleground and hopefully a bridge contract towards a bigger 3rd contract if he earns it.
The whole point is he's not some 18/19/20 year old kid, who has tons of untapped potential. He's turning 24 this year so he'll be done developing in the next two years. The same people saying Schultz has tonnes of potential still, probably were saying the same thing about Gilbert. And we all know how that turned out. He'll be good but he's not worth anything more then 4.25M in a long term deal. Ideally he'd get 2 years at 3M then we give him a big 8 year contract once he's earned it.

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06-07-2014, 04:25 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
I'm surprised at anyone who is so willing to move Schultz out after being basically 1.5 years of NHL play.

It just seems so remarkably short sighted.

Justin Schultz is unsuited to be a top pairing d-man at this stage of his career. That doesn't mean you trade him away. That means you bring in a player or two to move him down the depth chart and develop him properly.
People are, as usual, overreacting.

Schultz has the potential to become a great dman for us. It's too bad posters can't look past their bias and see the potential there. But that's their loss.

I have no problem signing him long term at FV money. Maybe even a bit more. our D is bad as it is -trading him away doesn't do anything to rectify that.

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06-07-2014, 04:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
The whole point is he's not some 18/19/20 year old kid, who has tons of untapped potential. He's turning 24 this year so he'll be done developing in the next two years. The same people saying Schultz has tonnes of potential still, probably were saying the same thing about Gilbert. And we all know how that turned out. He'll be good but he's not worth anything more then 4.25M in a long term deal. Ideally he'd get 2 years at 3M then we give him a big 8 year contract once he's earned it.
Just using your post as an example not a direct attack against you.

The whole point you and others like you are missing, and others have said this, he has only had 1.5 seasons in the NHL. He had the proper seasoning/development and now has to translate his earlier success into NHL success. This takes years for defensemen. Best example is Erik Johnson. First overall just hitting his stride after 8 years in the NHL and he was a first overall pick.

Chara was not the Chara we know now when he was first traded from Ottawa. Most people thought he was going to struggle without Reddan to cover for him that was when he was 29. Funny now but very true. He was 25 years old before he even got into the league. He was drafted 56 overall by the Islanders (lol) Shultz was drafted 43rd overall. HE IS STILL JUST 23 YEARS OLD what the heck are people thinking.

For a defenseman 23 is relatively very young. A lot of D-men do not hit their stride till 28.

And for the record 1. Gilbert did have solid potential 2. No where even remotely close to Schultz tho. 3. I hope to heck that Schultz doesn't turn out as crappy as Gilbert.

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06-07-2014, 05:05 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Just using your post as an example not a direct attack against you.

The whole point you and others like you are missing, and others have said this, he has only had 1.5 seasons in the NHL. He had the proper seasoning/development and now has to translate his earlier success into NHL success. This takes years for defensemen. Best example is Erik Johnson. First overall just hitting his stride after 8 years in the NHL and he was a first overall pick.

Chara was not the Chara we know now when he was first traded from Ottawa. Most people thought he was going to struggle without Reddan to cover for him that was when he was 29. Funny now but very true. He was 25 years old before he even got into the league. He was drafted 56 overall by the Islanders (lol) Shultz was drafted 43rd overall. HE IS STILL JUST 23 YEARS OLD what the heck are people thinking.

For a defenseman 23 is relatively very young. A lot of D-men do not hit their stride till 28.

And for the record 1. Gilbert did have solid potential 2. No where even remotely close to Schultz tho. 3. I hope to heck that Schultz doesn't turn out as crappy as Gilbert.
He's 24 in a month, like I said he has potential yes but he's not like Chara where he's growing into his body. Will he be a half decent top 4 sure, maybe even top pairing but I don't see him in the same light as A guy like Mcdonaugh or even Shattenkirk. Personally I'll vomit if he gets anything over 5M per year for 6 or 7 years.

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06-07-2014, 05:34 PM
  #90
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Just using your post as an example not a direct attack against you.

The whole point you and others like you are missing, and others have said this, he has only had 1.5 seasons in the NHL. He had the proper seasoning/development and now has to translate his earlier success into NHL success. This takes years for defensemen. Best example is Erik Johnson. First overall just hitting his stride after 8 years in the NHL and he was a first overall pick.

Chara was not the Chara we know now when he was first traded from Ottawa. Most people thought he was going to struggle without Reddan to cover for him that was when he was 29. Funny now but very true. He was 25 years old before he even got into the league. He was drafted 56 overall by the Islanders (lol) Shultz was drafted 43rd overall. HE IS STILL JUST 23 YEARS OLD what the heck are people thinking.

For a defenseman 23 is relatively very young. A lot of D-men do not hit their stride till 28.

And for the record 1. Gilbert did have solid potential 2. No where even remotely close to Schultz tho. 3. I hope to heck that Schultz doesn't turn out as crappy as Gilbert.
Erik is not a good defenseman, and frankly schultz should be turned into a winger because hes garbage on D. Whats worse is he clearly thinks hes the second coming of boby orr. I pity any Dman who has to play with him. and blaming his ***** play on players like andrew ference who have PROVED they can defend and win in this league, is ridiculous. Whoever feels like that should join the oilers management team. The ONLY kid on this team thats done f all is Taylor Hall.

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06-07-2014, 05:58 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by bOILing point View Post
Erik is not a good defenseman, and frankly schultz should be turned into a winger because hes garbage on D. <b>Whats worse is he clearly thinks hes the second coming of boby orr</b>. I pity any Dman who has to play with him. and blaming his ***** play on players like andrew ference who have PROVED they can defend and win in this league, is ridiculous. Whoever feels like that should join the oilers management team. <b>The ONLY kid on this team thats done f all is Taylor Hall.</b>
Can we please stop with these claims? You or me, or anyone else for that matter, cannot provide evidence that Justin Schultz believes he is the next coming of Bobby Orr. If you can find me a direct quote from an interview stating this is his belief, I'll apologize; however, these claims are just trying to achieve your objective, and are highly filled with bias. As for the Taylor Hall comment, has Jordan Eberle shown nothing then? Last I checked, he has been in the top 30 in scoring the past couple of seasons, and he has played in the All-Star Game (an argument can be made that Hall has been snubbed, but that doesn't discredit Eberle's achievement).

I do not see posters here trying to say that Schult's defensive game is elite, or even average at this point. Most posters are trying to point out that while it may be bad now, he has the ability to grow this area of his game and become a better defender. The extent to which he has to grow this part of his game is debatable - he might become a great defender, he may never improve; however, providing him with a d-partner that is able to cover for his growing pains is only going to improve the chance his defensive game improves. But I could be wrong, I am not claiming to know anything at this point.

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06-07-2014, 08:09 PM
  #92
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Can we please stop with these claims? You or me, or anyone else for that matter, cannot provide evidence that Justin Schultz believes he is the next coming of Bobby Orr. If you can find me a direct quote from an interview stating this is his belief, I'll apologize; however, these claims are just trying to achieve your objective, and are highly filled with bias. As for the Taylor Hall comment, has Jordan Eberle shown nothing then? Last I checked, he has been in the top 30 in scoring the past couple of seasons, and he has played in the All-Star Game (an argument can be made that Hall has been snubbed, but that doesn't discredit Eberle's achievement).

I do not see posters here trying to say that Schult's defensive game is elite, or even average at this point. Most posters are trying to point out that while it may be bad now, he has the ability to grow this area of his game and become a better defender. The extent to which he has to grow this part of his game is debatable - he might become a great defender, he may never improve; however, providing him with a d-partner that is able to cover for his growing pains is only going to improve the chance his defensive game improves. But I could be wrong, I am not claiming to know anything at this point.
Well said..

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06-07-2014, 08:27 PM
  #93
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I'm tired of people tying development to age.

A player is going to develop a lot more from NHL experience than blowing out candles on his birthday cake.

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06-08-2014, 01:23 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by bOILing point View Post
Erik is not a good defenseman, and frankly schultz should be turned into a winger because hes garbage on D. Whats worse is he clearly thinks hes the second coming of boby orr. I pity any Dman who has to play with him. and blaming his ***** play on players like andrew ference who have PROVED they can defend and win in this league, is ridiculous. Whoever feels like that should join the oilers management team. The ONLY kid on this team thats done f all is Taylor Hall.
I don't know if this is a troll or you are just an angry person.

Erik Johnson. 26 years old right handed defenseman. 6' 4" 232 lbs. 9 goals, 30 assists, +5, 61PIM and helped lead his team to the Stanley cup playoffs. I watched a few Colorado games and he looked damn god to me.

Shultz is pretty bad defensively but give him some time and we will see what happens. High potential, lets hope he reaches it instead of crapping all over the guy.

Don't know why you think he thinks he is the next Bobby Orr.

I agree Ferrence has had some unfair criticism this year and IF people are saying he was the reason Schultz was bad then you are correct in scoffing at such talk.

However saying Hall is the only one who has f all is a bit over the top as well.

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06-08-2014, 02:07 AM
  #95
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Schultz peaks at a 1999 Andy Delmore. Maybe he will Delmore it for a season, Krug style for one playoff run if they ever make it.

Nothing more than 2 million for 3 years. If I was GM 1.75 one year deal, prove your worth.

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06-08-2014, 10:00 AM
  #96
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Duncan Keith's 1st NHL season - 81gp 9+12=21, -11 (age: 22)
Justin Schultz's 1st NHL season - 48gp 8+19=27, -17 (age: 22)

Duncan Keith's 2nd NHL season - 82gp 2+29=31, +0 (age: 23)
Justin Schultz's 2nd NHL season - 74gp 11+22=33, -22 (age: 23)

Yeah, let's trade him away.

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06-08-2014, 11:29 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
First off, I'm not going to say that Schultz is without blame in all of this, it's just that with player at such a young stage in his career we should be looking at him in a developmental way and avoid making these solid conclusions about him. Also, negative elements of his game are to be expected, and to be assumed to get better over time.
He's inexperienced, yes, but he's not that young by today's standards. All the tools should be in place and it should just be a matter of putting them together. But there's nothing there, no indication he "gets it." I can't think of a player who better embodies the knocks on the Oilers team as a whole: the indifference to defense, the bad reads, the cheating for offense, the general lack of push back.

Quote:
Again, over and over you delibrately choose to paint Schultz in the worst light possible. Posters before me were talking plus minus, you were talking plus minus, and now you are pretending nobody was talking plus minus. Advanced stats were brought up, I showed that Schultz was not sheltered in the least, and yet you continue to pretend that the point wasn't made.
I wasn't talking about plus/minus because I know its a garbage stat. As far as advanced stats go, his QoC was third on the team (meaning he wasn't facing the toughest competition) but he played with the best forwards. He had the 3rd easiest Zone starts among regular D. He had a 42.9 Corsi share, fourth best among regular D. So yeah, he did get some cover and a decent push and he didn't bugger all with it.

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Every player is better away from Schultz? Like I said, the reason is that he is put in a position to fail. The only experienced top 4 D we have is Petry, and he happens to play the same side as Schultz and so Schultz never gets to play with him. This isn't about Schultz vs Petry. Ideally we would keep both.
You could say the same about a lot of players on this team. Some have done a damn sight better handling their circumstances than Schultz. Great players rise to the challenge. They show improvement or a commitment to getting better. Haven't seen that from Schultz.

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Marincin has looked better than Schultz but look at how perfect he has it. He gets to play with a quality top 4 D like Petry, someone he can learn from since they are similar players, and yet Marincin is better than Petry in some ways such as puck moving which gives the pairing a truly collaborative identity.
I reckon you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with you that playing top minutes as a rookie in the toughest division in the league while paired with a guy whose biggest fans would admit is best suited to second pairing duties is some kind of cherry gig.

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And no, Petry is not nearly as good a puck mover as Justin Schultz. Also as good as Marincin was, he is still not that player either. If Petry were, he would get as much even strength ice time as Schultz, but he doesn't.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Quote:
Why do you think Eakins plays Schultz that much and with those linemates and in those situations? Because he likes Justin's hair? Because Eakins is just sooo clueless? Give me a break
The same Eakins that you say keeps putting Schultz in a position to fail by pairing him with Ference? Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If you want to argue that he's been misused and played above his level, you'll get no pushback from me. But you can't say that and then argue that he's a real number one D because of his minutes. At this point in time, it would be best for the Oilers to put Schultz into a position to succeed, ideally as a third pairing soft minutes PP specialist.

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06-08-2014, 12:13 PM
  #98
Soundwave
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Oilers don't have the luxury of not developing Schultz. Schultz is the only d-man on our back end that generates any real offense for starters ...

Schultz - 11 goals last year

Ference + Petry + Belov + Marincin combined - 11 goals last year

I'm not so convinced that Marincin and Klefbom are ever going to be big point producers from the blue line either.

A big part of the reason we suck is our defence generates no offence from the back end.

I'd look at a two year bridge deal at $3 mill/per.


Last edited by Soundwave: 06-08-2014 at 12:26 PM.
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06-08-2014, 12:27 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I'm tired of people tying development to age.

A player is going to develop a lot more from NHL experience than blowing out candles on his birthday cake.
Good point. 12 years ago Florida traded away a 25-year old defenceman who had 3 relatively unmemorable pro-seasons after a stellar 4-year college career. His name is Dan Boyle.

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06-08-2014, 12:46 PM
  #100
Mr Positive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
He's inexperienced, yes, but he's not that young by today's standards. All the tools should be in place and it should just be a matter of putting them together. But there's nothing there, no indication he "gets it." I can't think of a player who better embodies the knocks on the Oilers team as a whole: the indifference to defense, the bad reads, the cheating for offense, the general lack of push back.

....

Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.



The same Eakins that you say keeps putting Schultz in a position to fail by pairing him with Ference? Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If you want to argue that he's been misused and played above his level, you'll get no pushback from me. But you can't say that and then argue that he's a real number one D because of his minutes. At this point in time, it would be best for the Oilers to put Schultz into a position to succeed, ideally as a third pairing soft minutes PP specialist.
NHL experience is more important than age. Schultz is still extremely inexperienced. In terms of age he is also very young for a Dman. So far, his career is very similar to what Cam Fowler went through. Cam was also bad in his own zone, one step behind for several years. He is younger than Schultz but he's a higher draft pedigree which explains why he would develop quicker.

It's not a fallacy to point out the minutes given. According to you, Petry is a better puck mover, better at everything and so he should be getting the most minutes, even strength and PP, and yet Schultz has the distinct edge in both. Your interpretation has a hole in it.

I'm not a huge Eakins fan, but I'm not hater either. It's definitely silly to suggest that he would force Schultz into a prominent role for absolutely no reason. It's also not Eakins' fault that Schultz played with Ference. Eakins had no options. Schultz also played with Nick Schultz, Klefbom, and Larsen. Eakins tried every combo available, but none of them cut it on the top pairing, forcing Eakins to keep trying. You say that it's Schultz' fault that they failed on the top pairing, but wow, those players seem like obvious bottom pairing fodder to me.

The one constant was Schultz, who stayed there because he's the only player we have that resembles the talent level to cut it there.


Last edited by Mr Positive: 06-08-2014 at 12:53 PM.
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