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Ferguson's Search for a Defenseman

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Old
10-04-2003, 12:15 PM
  #1
wasting time
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Ferguson's Search for a Defenseman

Rumors persist that Ferguson is talking to other teams looking for a player to bolster the Leafs Blue Line before the season commences. With McCabe now out 6 weeks it should almost be a certainty.

I would like to start a thread here that discusses which players may be involved in said discussions. I am going to assume a few things in these discussions:

1. JF will not entertain trading prospects or picks. It will be a NHL roster player/potential salary swap – a win/win trade for both teams in the 2003/2004 season. Releasing Green’s $1.6M salary serves to strengthen my resolve on this point. The fact that Pushor has yet to be signed I think is further evidence.
2. It will be a trade that will exchange strength for strength. Toronto is deep at NHL forwards. The trade will likely exchange a Toronto forward for a Defenseman from a team already deep at that position.
3. Toronto will acquire net salary – potentially as high as $3 million.
4. The only trade that makes sense is for a top 4 quality D for Toronto. A 5-6 is not needed and will not be acquired.
5. If it is a trade for a blue chip quality defenseman (e.g. Hamrlik). The exchange may also involve a Toronto defenseman at the bottom pairing level (likely Aki Berg), plus something else possibly.
6. Antropov, Tucker, Domi, Belak and Renberg would be the most attractive forwards (in order) that Ferguson would be willing to trade; and therefore, one of these players would be on the move.

Looking around the league I have compiled what I believe will be the most likely 10 potential trading partners. I have listed them in order:
1. Carolina – deep because of the “surprise” Markov signing. They are also needing punch and grit up front. I think any of Sean Hill, Hedican, Boughner or Markov could be for the offering. They don’t have the payroll to have these guys playing only 12-15 minutes a game.
2. Detroit – insane depth at defense. Schneider will be on the move, especially with a strong camp from Kronwall. I am sure Tucker would fit very well on that team.
3. Islanders – Hamrlik may be too costly to land, but Aucoin or Jonsson may not be. They are deep 1 to 7.
4. St. Louis – A potential lesser trade for a guy like Khavanov or Salvador? JF dealing with Pleau should be as easy as 123.
5. Calgary – very deep and big on D. Very weak up front. Antropov or Tucker would be coveted by Sutter. However, this D is the core of the Flames team and future. Would Sutter be willing to tinker with this? Ference would be the easiest to part with, I would guess, followed by Lidman and Gauthier.
6. Buffalo – Zhitnik is the obvious one here. But really the only guy who makes 100% on that team would be Antropov. Would QEW rivals make that trade? Risky business.
7. Colorado – Deep in their top 5 for sure. But they are also deep up front. Perhaps a lesser trade since they just lost Aubin and Willsie. Skrastins? Skoula? I dunno, those guys are pretty good. Maybe Tucker + Berg for Skoula + Battaglia?
8. Chicago – they really don’t have much that Toronto would want. But they need forwards and Smith is always a sucker for ex-Toronto guys.
9. Philadelphia – could you really see a trade of a big D man for a gritty forward between these two teams? Me neither.
10. New Jersey – well, hell. They have a couple great young defensemen coming up potentially making a guy like Colin White expendable. The Burns system will also not hurt a young D man cutting his teeth in the NHL too badly either. But they are deep as hell up front too? If you were JF would you want to make your first trade as a rookie with Lamorello from your hated inter-conference rival? Would Lamorello make a trade that did not make real sense for his team? JF, a trade is there, I think, but I would suggest you stay in the shallow end for a little while longer before you go play with the big kids.

I’d like to get some real input on potential trades going here. I think is a timely subject for sure.

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10-04-2003, 12:28 PM
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Good post. Ill give a more in depth reply when I get a chance. Just a note about Chicago - do you not think that Klemm might interest the Leafs? Im not aware of his availability...but he's a guy I wouldn't mind picking up or inquiring about. That said, I think that would be more of a deadline day deal as Im sure Chicago has visions of at least trying to make the playoffs.

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10-04-2003, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBlue
Good post. Ill give a more in depth reply when I get a chance. Just a note about Chicago - do you not think that Klemm might interest the Leafs? Im not aware of his availability...but he's a guy I wouldn't mind picking up or inquiring about. That said, I think that would be more of a deadline day deal as Im sure Chicago has visions of at least trying to make the playoffs.
Sure he would, I think. But who would Chicago have left? They are too thin there to make a trade from what I can see. Plus, they have a ton of young guns coming up - can they play this year?

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10-04-2003, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
As an Avs fan - Tucker & Berg for Skoula & Battaglia ? No thanx . I'm sure the leafs will get a defenseman soon though . Maybe Schneider from detroit ?
Me neither -- I was half talking out of my ass. That was one of the few scenarios I could think of which is why I ranked the liklihood of a Colorado trade pretty low.

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10-04-2003, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I heard Hamrlik was available , would the Islanders trade with the Leafs though ? The leafs should get Therien off waivers but I think he makes too much . He would be a good top 4 on the Leafs , he's big and strong , that's what the Leafs need on defense .
I'd like Hamrlik, and I am pretty sure so would most of us. The thing though is that from rumours around draft day the Leafs were offering Tucker and the Islanders wanted Antropov. And with Antropov being one of the few good forward prospects we have (ironically the Leafs are deep at defensive prospects and thin at forward) I would be hestitant to trade Nik away.

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10-04-2003, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I'm guessing there's gonna be trades before the season starts , the Leafs should get another defenseman for sure . Why not grab Therien off waivers ?
I don't know why. Maybe they are holding out for a better quality guy - like a top 4 guy. Or maybe they want more puck control skill.

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10-04-2003, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
If the Leafs can just get another top 4 defenseman , they should be fine IMO . They have a good group of forwards , Belfour can still win . I always thought belfour was better than CuJo anyways .
Belfour will and will forever be, and was and was forever, better than Cujo. No one was yelling this louder than me when we first signed him.

Of course, I was repeatedly told he was washed up, too volatile, wonky back, a drunk, a dressing room disturber etc. by countless Leafs fans whole really know crapola.

I told them so.

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10-04-2003, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
I'd like Hamrlik, and I am pretty sure so would most of us. The thing though is that from rumours around draft day the Leafs were offering Tucker and the Islanders wanted Antropov. And with Antropov being one of the few good forward prospects we have (ironically the Leafs are deep at defensive prospects and thin at forward) I would be hestitant to trade Nik away.
For Hamrlik? Not me.

I am starting to believe that Antropov is the second coming of Viktor Kozlov, which ain't bad, but I trade Hamrlik up any day, as would any old moron.

Is he Bertuzzi instead? I dunno.

Its a risk I am certainly willing to make.

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10-04-2003, 02:02 PM
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It just dawned on me!

JF did two significant things at the press conference yesterday that tipped his hand:

1. He gave his current crop of defense the "vote of confidence" which means that a new guy will come in if possible - no news here, but,
2. he mentioned Antropov specifically and that with Green gone he is expecting Antropov to "take more on his plate" which basically means, he wants 12 more goals to replace thoose from Green departed.

Antropov ain't goin anywhere!

He is assembling 3 lines of quality with 1 spare piece 4th line and expects Pat to roll 3 and not 4 as he usually does.

With Belak and Perrott protected, you have to believe that Belak is one guy being dangled. But I think the true #1 guy JF is dangling is none other than Tie Domi. Tucker fits in very well into that 3rd line and 3 enforcers just does not make sense. I am sure that Tucker is being asked for, but I think JF is truly trying to maximize his return from Tie - Tucker is a last resort for quality.

If this is true, JF has some real balls because tradinig Domi is a no win situation in this town.

So, my friends, what is realistic in return for Tie Domi, who Bob Hatley call, "the best tough guy in the NHL."

Boughner, Sean Hill? Better? Worse? Maybe Deyroit wants to dump Schneider's salary? For Domi alone? Doubt it. after what it cost them to land him.

Bye bye Tie. I like you but won't miss you and your stupid, selfish elbows in game fives. You marketed yourself like a dot com in this city, but you are expendable.

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10-04-2003, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I'm guessing there's gonna be trades before the season starts , the Leafs should get another defenseman for sure . Why not grab Therien off waivers ?

Super Joe

Waiver draft is over... It was yesterday.. Therien and his 2.6 mil salary went unselected....

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10-04-2003, 02:23 PM
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Chris Therien would be a horrible pick up for you guys. I remember his pylonesque D being a key factor in the Sabre's playoff wins over the Flyers, and that was a few years ago.

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10-04-2003, 02:27 PM
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i cant see schneider traded unless for a big scorer

they traded alot to get him

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10-04-2003, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I'm guessing there's gonna be trades before the season starts , the Leafs should get another defenseman for sure . Why not grab Therien off waivers ?
The Leafs don't need another #6 defenseman. They need a top pairing guy. A #1 or #2. If they can't get one then there's no point in trading assets. Depth defensemen aren't going to be the difference to this team.

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10-04-2003, 02:39 PM
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Throwing Green away for nothing kind of inhibits trades IMHO, since I'm not sure we really have the forward depth to be able to trade away Tucker and God only knows who else and still be competitive. Rember, we can expect, on average, to have at least one of Roberts, Nolan, or Joe N. on the IR at any given time, and Tucker would be one of the best options of 3rd line guys to be moved up to the top 2 lines to fill in for injuries. Also, Quinn likes to roll 4 lines, so we really need some half-way competent players on our 4th line, and would have trouble getting away with some sort of Holden-Reichel-Belak shambles. Young guys like Stajan or Steen might be able to step up and contribute, or they might not, and either way they're not going to be as good as Antropov or Tucker in their first NHL season.

If Ferguson lands another top-3 defenseman, it will have to be either some sort of signing (maybe Yuskevich, or Therien if Philly actually goes so far as to buy him out, though neither of those really fill me with much optimism), or by trading prospects. If we start trading away the likes of Antropov or Tucker at this point, we'd only be trading one weakness for another, at least as far as I can see...

I don't know. After the Wesley and Housley fiascos, I would think long and hard about betting the farm on one single aging big-name defenceman, even a very good one, being able to walk solve all of our problems. The team, as currently constituted, is not 1 player away the Stanley Cup Finals, at least IMHO, and if you take our top checker and best 3rd liner (Tucker) or our best young player (Antro) out of the equation, even less so.

 
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10-04-2003, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasting time
2. It will be a trade that will exchange strength for strength. Toronto is deep at NHL forwards.

The trade will likely exchange a Toronto forward for a Defenseman from a team already deep at that position.
Hamrlik). The exchange may also involve a Toronto defenseman at the bottom pairing level (likely Aki Berg), plus something else possibly.
6. Antropov, Tucker, Domi, Belak and Renberg would be the most attractive forwards (in order) that Ferguson would be willing to trade; and therefore, one of these players would be on the move.


3. Islanders – Hamrlik may be too costly to land, but Aucoin or Jonsson may not be. They are deep 1 to 7.
.

Berger reported that Toronto asked for either Hamrlik or Jonsson and was told that Antropov would have to be in any deal for EITHER.

Isles are 4 deep on defense,not 7 and going with a 22 yr old in net,they are not likely to be looking to trade any of their top 4 unless the wheels fall off their season early.

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10-04-2003, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by GeckoGreene
Throwing Green away for nothing kind of inhibits trades IMHO, since I'm not sure we really have the forward depth to be able to trade away Tucker and God only knows who else and still be competitive. Rember, we can expect, on average, to have at least one of Roberts, Nolan, or Joe N. on the IR at any given time, and Tucker would be one of the best options of 3rd line guys to be moved up to the top 2 lines to fill in for injuries. Also, Quinn likes to roll 4 lines, so we really need some half-way competent players on our 4th line, and would have trouble getting away with some sort of Holden-Reichel-Belak shambles. Young guys like Stajan or Steen might be able to step up and contribute, or they might not, and either way they're not going to be as good as Antropov or Tucker in their first NHL season.

If Ferguson lands another top-3 defenseman, it will have to be either some sort of signing (maybe Yuskevich, or Therien if Philly actually goes so far as to buy him out, though neither of those really fill me with much optimism), or by trading prospects. If we start trading away the likes of Antropov or Tucker at this point, we'd only be trading one weakness for another, at least as far as I can see...

I don't know. After the Wesley and Housley fiascos, I would think long and hard about betting the farm on one single aging big-name defenceman, even a very good one, being able to walk solve all of our problems. The team, as currently constituted, is not 1 player away the Stanley Cup Finals, at least IMHO, and if you take our top checker and best 3rd liner (Tucker) or our best young player (Antro) out of the equation, even less so.
I hope you are not implying that Yuskevich is a top 3 D man, becuase he is not. Neither is Therian.

My point was that I do not think Antropov is going to be traded at all - in fact I think it will be Domi, so the question is, what do you think the Leafs could get in return for Domi?

Maybe not 1 D man away from the Cup, but perhaps from a depp run in the playoffs.

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10-04-2003, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Berger reported that Toronto asked for either Hamrlik or Jonsson and was told that Antropov would have to be in any deal for EITHER.

Isles are 4 deep on defense,not 7 and going with a 22 yr old in net,they are not likely to be looking to trade any of their top 4 unless the wheels fall off their season early.
So, this is good information. If Antropov is not going anywhere then what will they get in return.

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10-04-2003, 02:48 PM
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If Fergy does trade for another defenseman then ironically i hope its someone who plays a very similar style to Svehla.A complete package type of guy with decent wheels would be just what DR. Leaflover is ordering.

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10-04-2003, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
What would you Leaf fans give us for Foote ?
With the unproven netminders you guys are starting the season with theres no way Pete will move Foote IMO.

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10-04-2003, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Joe
I know PIERRE would never move Foote , I just want to see what Leaf fans would want to give up for him .
tenkrat ?

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10-04-2003, 03:08 PM
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As much as i would love to get Foote,our strengths are the same(top 6 forwards) so i have a difficult time putting a realistic offer together.

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10-04-2003, 03:14 PM
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he's testing our ability to judge talent.

tenkrat and a 5th rounder should do it.
foote's an over-rated minor leaguer who looks good only because he gets to play around superstars.

hows that guys ?

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10-04-2003, 03:30 PM
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Let's pretend I never asked ok ?
Sounds like an idea

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10-04-2003, 03:56 PM
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I would like to hear sluggo's interpretation on how Foote is not a top rated Dman because he dosn't score enough and therefore is not a well rounded player, hence making him a depth player at best.

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10-04-2003, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Super_Joe
This Sluggo doesn't think Foote is a good defenseman ?

He dosen't think Kaberle is based on the fact that he is not a super Defensive guy. Anyone lacking in either D or O is not complete and therefore not a #1 Dman.

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