HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Non-Sports > Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated" Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal

Quagmire Iraq - 2014 Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-12-2014, 01:46 PM
  #51
PSUCapsFan
Registered User
 
PSUCapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Irvine, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
I bet the Kurds are happy with the American involvement in Iraq. I think we should support the Kurds and purchase their oil. They seem like an enlightened bunch of people.

How does the power structure work in Iraq? Is their anyway we can put the Kurds in charge?

Let the Sunni and Shia Arabs fight it out until they get tired of the bloodshed and decide to step out of the dark ages.

PSUCapsFan is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 02:00 PM
  #52
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
The conflict there never stopped since the Bush invasion. It just stops being news because the novelty wears off, it's part of the scenery. Sometimes something out of the norm occurs and it makes the papers again. ANd now it's Obama's fault? I just heard Cantor say he has much work left with Republicans to repair the Obama economy; I just about fell off my chair.

The same will happen in Afghanistan once all US troops leave. It;s probably why Obama is keeping a few there until after the 2014 mid-terms. Karzai's muppet will last about 2-3 years at best after Obama pulls the last soldier out.

Puck is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 02:16 PM
  #53
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Let the Sunni and Shia Arabs fight it out until they get tired of the bloodshed and decide to step out of the dark ages.
What are the people who are tired of bloodshed supposed to do? Fight the people who want more bloodshed?

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 02:28 PM
  #54
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,764
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
I bet the Kurds are happy with the American involvement in Iraq. I think we should support the Kurds and purchase their oil. They seem like an enlightened bunch of people.

How does the power structure work in Iraq? Is their anyway we can put the Kurds in charge?

Let the Sunni and Shia Arabs fight it out until they get tired of the bloodshed and decide to step out of the dark ages.
The Kurds have so many internal problems. They put aside their differences in moments of crisis, but once they get past the crisis there's always infighting. Though given a real chance at statehood might create the potential for them to get past that.

Putting the Kurds in charge isn't going to help anything anyway. The problem is Iraq shouldn't really be a country anymore, but nobody wants to split it up (largely because nobody wants to relinquish their share of the country's oil wealth).

To address the threat title: Iraq isn't going to be Islamist. But I think there's a good chance that Iraq isn't going to be a state, either.

Classic Devil is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 02:29 PM
  #55
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,764
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post
The conflict there never stopped since the Bush invasion. It just stops being news because the novelty wears off, it's part of the scenery. Sometimes something out of the norm occurs and it makes the papers again. ANd now it's Obama's fault? I just heard Cantor say he has much work left with Republicans to repair the Obama economy; I just about fell off my chair.

The same will happen in Afghanistan once all US troops leave. It;s probably why Obama is keeping a few there until after the 2014 mid-terms. Karzai's muppet will last about 2-3 years at best after Obama pulls the last soldier out.
I think there's a lot more hope for Afghanistan's long-term stability, actually.

Classic Devil is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 02:29 PM
  #56
Doppler Drift
Registered User
 
Doppler Drift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
What are the people who are tired of bloodshed supposed to do? Fight the people who want more bloodshed?
Move.

Doppler Drift is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 03:35 PM
  #57
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
Move.
850+K refugees in Iran.
500K refugees in Turkey
550+K refugees in Lebanon
600+K refugees in Jordan (!!!)

I understand not knowing what to do about it, but how can anyone not care about it?

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 03:37 PM
  #58
Doppler Drift
Registered User
 
Doppler Drift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
850+K refugees in Iran.
500K refugees in Turkey
550+K refugees in Lebanon
600+K refugees in Jordan (!!!)

I understand not knowing what to do about it, but how can anyone not care about it?
I wasn't being serious. You have heard of irony yes? You have heard morons stating that natives/blacks, etc, should just go back where they came from yes?

Is it really necessary to use a sarcasm emoticon all the time? Good grief.

Doppler Drift is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 03:46 PM
  #59
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler Drift View Post
I wasn't being serious. You have heard of irony yes? You have heard morons stating that natives/blacks, etc, should just go back where they came from yes?

Is it really necessary to use a sarcasm emoticon all the time? Good grief.
This is why I don't like hipsters. I can never tell when they're being ironic and condescending as opposed to merely being condescending.

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 03:56 PM
  #60
Doppler Drift
Registered User
 
Doppler Drift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
This is why I don't like hipsters. I can never tell when they're being ironic and condescending as opposed to merely being condescending.
A hipster? Wrong age bracket Sunny Jim.

And the only one being condescending here is you.


Last edited by Doppler Drift: 06-12-2014 at 04:02 PM.
Doppler Drift is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:01 PM
  #61
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
I don't understand how people can simply not care about what's happening in Iraq. Especially Americans, because this situation is a direct result of the botched invasion. Not that they had it great under Saddam, but the current situation is pretty much 100 percent America's doing. So the whole "Sorry we ****ed up your country, but eh, you're on your own now" attitude is pretty unbelievable.

Ugmo is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:03 PM
  #62
Doppler Drift
Registered User
 
Doppler Drift's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
I don't understand how people can simply not care about what's happening in Iraq. Especially Americans, because this situation is a direct result of the botched invasion. Not that they had it great under Saddam, but the current situation is pretty much 100 percent America's doing. So the whole "Sorry we ****ed up your country, but eh, you're on your own now" attitude is pretty unbelievable.
I'm sure most people care. The true tragedy is that we have been screwing with the Middle East for over 60 years, and it shows no signs of slowing down.

Doppler Drift is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:14 PM
  #63
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
I don't understand how people can simply not care about what's happening in Iraq. Especially Americans, because this situation is a direct result of the botched invasion. Not that they had it great under Saddam, but the current situation is pretty much 100 percent America's doing. So the whole "Sorry we ****ed up your country, but eh, you're on your own now" attitude is pretty unbelievable.
I was completely against the invasion, but it's hard to see how this is 100% America's doing.

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:17 PM
  #64
EvilCorporateLawyer
Very slippery slope
 
EvilCorporateLawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 75,138
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to EvilCorporateLawyer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
You'd have done well in the 30's state department...
The main reason we were attacked is because we continually meddle in their affairs.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
EvilCorporateLawyer is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:17 PM
  #65
Vyacheslav
That one guy
 
Vyacheslav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Jackson, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 15,117
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Vyacheslav
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro Misfits View Post
Are you saying that the attempt to bring democracy and peace to Iraq failed?

Unpossible. The religion of government is far superior.
This post actually makes a lot of sense if you read it in Ralph Wiggum's voice.

Vyacheslav is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:21 PM
  #66
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I was completely against the invasion, but it's hard to see how this is 100% America's doing.
It's completely America's doing because of the power vacuum and civil war that took hold when the bumbling Bushies failed to plan for the occupation. On top of which, the U.S. dissolved the Iraqi army after the invasion, resulting in a lot of free time and a huge chip on the shoulder for hundreds of thousands of Sunnis. No invasion means no bloodthirsty Isamists with a penchant for cutting off people's heads, and an invasion with a plan for keeping the peace would have reduced the chances of that happening.

Ugmo is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:27 PM
  #67
Rekin
Registered User
 
Rekin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Warszawa
Country: Poland
Posts: 416
vCash: 500
According to a study Canada is among the most Islamic countries in the world, while no actual Muslim-majority state makes the top 30:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...tates-lag.html

Rekin is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:33 PM
  #68
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
I think there's a lot more hope for Afghanistan's long-term stability, actually.
Depends what you mean by stability. After the US leaves the power balances will shift and the Afghan warlords will probably go back to what they know best, fight amongst themselves with never a clear winner. The guy in Kabul is handy if he has US bucks to dispense, less so if he doesn't. If he does survive it will be in a ceremonial capacity, the tribal chiefs will continue to run their own affairs like they have for centuries. Good chance the ceremonial position in Kabul won't be Karzai's successor for long if he doesn't have a real good reason for being there (more than just being elected). We probably won't even notice in our newspapers by then.

Puck is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:42 PM
  #69
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
It's completely America's doing because of the power vacuum and civil war that took hold when the bumbling Bushies failed to plan for the occupation. On top of which, the U.S. dissolved the Iraqi army after the invasion, resulting in a lot of free time and a huge chip on the shoulder for hundreds of thousands of Sunnis. No invasion means no bloodthirsty Isamists with a penchant for cutting off people's heads, and an invasion with a plan for keeping the peace would have reduced the chances of that happening.
I don't know. The whole thing is like a giant whack-a-mole. The Iraq invasion busted the sledgehammer, but the mole was already there.

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:56 PM
  #70
Nightslyr
Registered User
 
Nightslyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NH
Country: United States
Posts: 3,864
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nightslyr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird Law View Post
The main reason we were attacked is because we continually meddle in their affairs.
Which is something I don't understand. Is it about oil? Religion? A mix of the two?

It's just odd that we always poke that area with a stick/bomb/drone, but not other areas, like, say, Africa-proper.

Nightslyr is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 04:57 PM
  #71
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I don't know. The whole thing is like a giant whack-a-mole. The Iraq invasion busted the sledgehammer, but the mole was already there.
Agreed. The US invasion ended a long Sunni led government oppressing Shia. Now you just have Shia oppressing Sunni. Indirect US meddling by-product perhaps but the Shia are the majority and the Sunni were the minority; doesn't make it better though. This latest round started last year with the Government Shia Army hitting the town of Hawijah, killing Sunnis. Now all of a sudden, the Sunni jihadists are the defenders of Sunni rights. Another civil war on the way. Not Obama's fault and not really Bush's either at this point. If Bush hadn't intervened, the parties would be just be reversed and it would be Sunni oppressing Shia. So there was never a Mission Accomplished, it was just a stir of the pot IMHO. It's how it rolls.

Puck is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 05:12 PM
  #72
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Fellas, Bush's war destabilized the entire region und unleashed the power of radical Islamism. Say what you want about the Sunnis under Saddam, but they weren't radical fundamentalists like this current crop.

Ugmo is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 05:24 PM
  #73
Dan-o16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Fellas, Bush's war destabilized the entire region und unleashed the power of radical Islamism. Say what you want about the Sunnis under Saddam, but they weren't radical fundamentalists like this current crop.
I guess I really don't care whether it is radical Islamists or Baathists killing and displacing people. I mean the current situation is, in part, caused by a demonic slaughtering Baathist allied with a theocracy. The rebellion against the Baathist caused a power vacuum there, which created an opportunity for Sunni Islamists to capture Sunni areas in Iraq!

The previous demonic slaughtering Baathist caused the allegiance between the current demonic slaughtering Baathist and the theocracy in their previous war.

I mean, the invasion is partly to blame. So is Iran. So is Assad. So is our non-intervention in Syria. Russia has historical blame, too.

Dan-o16 is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 05:41 PM
  #74
Puck
Ninja
 
Puck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Tahiti
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugmo View Post
Fellas, Bush's war destabilized the entire region und unleashed the power of radical Islamism. Say what you want about the Sunnis under Saddam, but they weren't radical fundamentalists like this current crop.
Indirectly making the case for leaving Assad be in Syria. No?

Puck is offline  
Old
06-12-2014, 05:44 PM
  #75
Ugmo
Registered User
 
Ugmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post
Indirectly making the case for leaving Assad be in Syria. No?
Depends. As of right now that is probably the best of a bunch of bad options, but there was a moderate opposition a couple of years ago that we failed to adequately support despite a constant stream of high-ranking and rank-and-file army defections.

Ugmo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.