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AHL West in 2015-16?

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Old
07-30-2014, 09:40 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
I donít who he spoke with, but in my own conversations with a pair of AHL BoG members I can attest that the AHL western movement has hit a snag. My conversation varies from gocomet in the fact that there are no teams currently for sale and those NHL clubs Ė Coyotes & Ducks Ė that are looking to purchase a club undervalued the potential cost of purchasing a franchise. That was the heart of the conversation at the BoG meeting, which is why it was a short one because the AHL wonít consider anything unless there is a minimum five teams, preferably six. Right now, Iíve been told only Manchester and Worcester and OKC are in a position to pull up stakes next season. Iíd add Glen Falls to that list as well, but I think they stay in the east for a couple years, likewise with Utica.
Thank you for confirming. That's what I was told also. Price tags on a ahl franchise is in the 4-5 million area. So the only teams ready are the teams that own a franchise. I know the canucks love the progress their prospects made in Utica, little travel and lots of practice and rest time,so they will be here for a few years at least. The flames are a wildcard at this point. But if their prospects develop better in the east, they may stay too........I was surprised to hear that the ahl wanted 5-6 teams. I figured the 3 could move out and join the Texas teams for a good division.

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07-30-2014, 09:49 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Reason I asked is because I am willing and can name names....I ran into Lorne Henning while I was on vacation at , of all places, Santa Monica Pier. I asked him about this whole western movement and if he thought it would even happen. He told me that he thought it was going to happen in the next couple of years. Kinda jives with all the other comments we've all heard concerning a time frame. I also asked him about Vancouver's possible participation and he told me they were kinda locked into Utica for a few years, at which point I said that you know how easily those agreements can be broken. And that it just depended on how much money you were willing to spend to leave...he chuckled and said "true." Also said he wasn't a fan of trying to get out to utica to scout etc....he lives in s. california so he has to fly to chicago and then connect to syracuse etc. etc.
Lorne has always been straight up with me about things...my gut says he's right and that it'll happen in the next couple of years and that NHL teams will find the needed franchises from somewhere. Think about it...the coyotes tell portland that they are leaving after next year....no one else is willing to move into portland....what are they going to do hold on to what becomes a useless franchise or do they sell it and make money. Kinda easy to figure out in my book.
in my opinion, it is better to have tired scouts traveling, than to have tired players.... Everybody is in the north east, and the main objective of the ahl is to develop players. Why not put those players in the best possible situations to excell and develop?? Sometimes these teams loose perspective of what they are trying to do........I do however think that the western movement will happen at sometime in the next few years, but it looks like 4-6 years out at this point.....

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07-30-2014, 11:42 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Maybe I'm reading this wrong or you simply don't understand. Ottawa can't just move Binghamton where they please, they don't own the franchise.

"Sabrefan27":

Some posters here do NOT have any idea that you have to have an AHL franchise in order to have an AHL team........

Somehow that fact eludes some uniformed posters on this blog, who type without doing any research kind of makes them look stupid.......

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07-30-2014, 01:45 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
Iím not naming names out of professional courtesy to those who trust me with informationÖ. You donít have to worry about that. I do. Itís my profession Ė not being snide, just pointing out that Iím not afforded that opportunity. Those that I have spoken with told me this information on the basis that I wouldnít blab their name all over the place and that I would keep parts of our conversation off the record.

Now, that all being said I donít disagree with you. I still believe that the AHL will move westward in the next couple of years. I was simply saying that right now NHL teams that have to purchase an AHL franchise didnít expect it to cost as much and those that had considered selling no longer have their team on the market. Why? I donít know, but I can estimate they know the true value of the franchise both in its current location and if it was relocated. I also know that most of these owners donít own a minor league franchise to make money. They do for many different reasonsÖ love of the game, love of the city, giving back to the community or simply a tax writeoff. Again, in my personal opinion, Iím not really convinced all the western canadian teams want to move. Itís easy to see why LA, SJ, ANA and ARI want to be in the west, but those reasons donít apply to the western canadian teams unless they move into markets such as VAN to ABB or Victoria etc.

(reasons donít apply because western NHL team are not doing to player development. They are attempting to move for salary cap savings and real estate.)

As for PortlandÖ Iím assuming you are use that just as an example. ARI is likely leaving at the end of this season hence the one-year extension. Cainís ownership group is likely to find a new affiliate Ė which wonít be an issue because A.) OA Sports Center B.) Renovated arena C.) an ownership group thatís committed to the market and to the development of NHL players.

If you werenít just using Portland as an example I would be more than glad to further explain why Portland is not for sale, nor will be for sale for the foreseeable future.
Portland was just an example as they were the first team to pop into my head.

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07-30-2014, 01:49 PM
  #105
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A couple of quick notes.

1) An AHL franchise does not need an NHL affiliate to remaining the league

2) In order to affiliate with an AHL, that team must have an AHL license to operate

3) You cannot move a team to a different league without a license from that league to operate, i.e. The Monarchs cannot become an ECHL team unless they get an ECHL license and the Reading Royal cannot become an AHL team without an AHL license.

4) The AHL BOG determines how many licenses are available. Currently there are 30 and all are active.

5) NHL teams break affiliation agreements all the time.


Last edited by Tommy Hawk: 07-30-2014 at 02:01 PM.
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07-30-2014, 02:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by go comets View Post
in my opinion, it is better to have tired scouts traveling, than to have tired players.... Everybody is in the north east, and the main objective of the ahl is to develop players. Why not put those players in the best possible situations to excell and develop?? Sometimes these teams loose perspective of what they are trying to do........I do however think that the western movement will happen at sometime in the next few years, but it looks like 4-6 years out at this point.....
Can't disagree with what you said.....BUT...as for the comment about developing players etc....then maybe if you(NHL) want players to be ready for the NHL, then maybe you need to emulate a realistic travel schedule in the AHL. One that replicates an NHL travel schedule so that when they get there it isn't such a shock because there are very few 2 hour bus rides in the NHL.

Quite honestly I don't think there will be opposition to an AHL western movement from the participating NHL teams that don't currently own franchises. As I stated in my example....all they have to do is inform their current partner they are leaving and at some point it turns some franchise into a lame duck. Maybe not their current partner but the dominos will fall and eventually a franchise will become available for purchase. Besides I think you'll be surprised at the willingness of teams to pay the price asked to own their own franchise and the freedom that comes with it.

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07-30-2014, 05:08 PM
  #107
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So long as there are 30 NHL teams and only 30 AHL franchises, I don't see how an AHL franchise could become a true lame duck. Of course, the AHL could issue a provisional franchise to one or two Western NHL teams. That would leave one or more AHL franchises without an affiliation and force a sale at presumably a discounted price.

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07-30-2014, 06:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by JimB View Post
So long as there are 30 NHL teams and only 30 AHL franchises, I don't see how an AHL franchise could become a true lame duck. Of course, the AHL could issue a provisional franchise to one or two Western NHL teams. That would leave one or more AHL franchises without an affiliation and force a sale at presumably a discounted price.
The AHL won’t do that… It’s a straight forward situation. ANA, ARI or any other western NHL team will have to purchase a franchise if they want to relocate out west or have someone purchase a franchise that is willing move out west.

I would add that I wouldn’t automatically assume that it’s a private owner that sells. Don’t be shocked if it an eastern based NHL team that sells.

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07-30-2014, 06:06 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Portland was just an example as they were the first team to pop into my head.
That's what I figured....

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07-30-2014, 06:14 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Quite honestly I don't think there will be opposition to an AHL western movement from the participating NHL teams that don't currently own franchises. As I stated in my example....all they have to do is inform their current partner they are leaving and at some point it turns some franchise into a lame duck. Maybe not their current partner but the dominos will fall and eventually a franchise will become available for purchase. Besides I think you'll be surprised at the willingness of teams to pay the price asked to own their own franchise and the freedom that comes with it.
Actually you would be surprised... There is a group that's vehemently opposed to western movement, but I don't believe its enough to derail it. Also, I would disagree that ARI, ANA or any other would pay any price to purchase a franchise especially ARI.... They can barely foot the bill for operating an NHL club let alone running and maintaining an AHL franchise.

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07-30-2014, 10:34 PM
  #111
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Here is an interview from Tom Mitchell done yesterday , he is the owner of the BSens. At around the 9:35 they touch on the western expansion.

http://chirb.it/qqD2kI

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07-31-2014, 01:09 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
Actually you would be surprised... There is a group that's vehemently opposed to western movement, but I don't believe its enough to derail it. Also, I would disagree that ARI, ANA or any other would pay any price to purchase a franchise especially ARI.... They can barely foot the bill for operating an NHL club let alone running and maintaining an AHL franchise.
Believe me I'm not surprised there is a group that is so opposed to the idea.....Whatta ya wanna bet they all reside in the eastern conference???? No takers.....of course not because those teams in the east love their bus league. Take some teams out and the schedule will become a little less easy for them.
Don't confuse what I said with a willingness to pay anything to obtain a franchise....all I'm saying is that some of the teams who are in the west and need to buy a franchise will be willing to pony up more money than people think...within reason. Don't think these guys would spend say 10 million on it but you get my point.
I also agree...it's going to happen, when is anybody's guess and how long it last....same thing. And the reaction from some of the teams will be very predictable...predicting doom, lamenting the fact that they ok'd it but really didn't want to see it happen and how all these cost will go up now etc, etc Guess only time will tell.

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07-31-2014, 01:48 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
Actually you would be surprised... There is a group that's vehemently opposed to western movement, but I don't believe its enough to derail it. Also, I would disagree that ARI, ANA or any other would pay any price to purchase a franchise especially ARI.... They can barely foot the bill for operating an NHL club let alone running and maintaining an AHL franchise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Believe me I'm not surprised there is a group that is so opposed to the idea.....Whatta ya wanna bet they all reside in the eastern conference???? No takers.....of course not because those teams in the east love their bus league. Take some teams out and the schedule will become a little less easy for them.
Don't confuse what I said with a willingness to pay anything to obtain a franchise....all I'm saying is that some of the teams who are in the west and need to buy a franchise will be willing to pony up more money than people think...within reason. Don't think these guys would spend say 10 million on it but you get my point.
I also agree...it's going to happen, when is anybody's guess and how long it last....same thing. And the reaction from some of the teams will be very predictable...predicting doom, lamenting the fact that they ok'd it but really didn't want to see it happen and how all these cost will go up now etc, etc Guess only time will tell.
Totally agree that it will be the eastern teams that are opposed as it means they end up with the western conference type schedule, facing the same team 8 to 12 times a year and not facing other teams in their conference at all.

This will eventually happen and I agree with axe that teams will be willing to pay for the franchise. Vancouver paid what, $4mil? Not much compared to other team expenses. And what choice will some owners have when they have no affiliation? This will prevent those owning the franchise from holding it hostage ala what the owners of Iowa did a few years ago. The league does what the NHL wants and if the NHL teams want western expansion, it will happen. The NHL owners do not want to piss each other off.

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07-31-2014, 02:16 PM
  #114
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Totally agree that it will be the eastern teams that are opposed as it means they end up with the western conference type schedule, facing the same team 8 to 12 times a year and not facing other teams in their conference at all.
Let me see if I have this right: You're saying that the eastern bloc AHL owners, who for years you've stated want to travel less, would be opposed to having fewer eastern opponents to choose from, which would allow them to play their closest rivals even more often, therefore allowing them to travel ... less?

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07-31-2014, 02:44 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Rumblick View Post
Let me see if I have this right: You're saying that the eastern bloc AHL owners, who for years you've stated want to travel less, would be opposed to having fewer eastern opponents to choose from, which would allow them to play their closest rivals even more often, therefore allowing them to travel ... less?
No, I am saying they will be unhappy playing less teams more times. So if Syracuse, Springfield and Manchester and others left they would be upset that the population of teams they could travel to in under 4 hours would be reduced from say 10 to 4.

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07-31-2014, 04:36 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
No, I am saying they will be unhappy playing less teams more times. So if Syracuse, Springfield and Manchester and others left they would be upset that the population of teams they could travel to in under 4 hours would be reduced from say 10 to 4.
I hope you didn't hurt yourself with that stretch.

It's Manchester and Worcester that are likely moving west, and everything else in the region likely to be unchanged for the time being.

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07-31-2014, 05:18 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk View Post
No, I am saying they will be unhappy playing less teams more times. So if Syracuse, Springfield and Manchester and others left they would be upset that the population of teams they could travel to in under 4 hours would be reduced from say 10 to 4.
One thing to remember is that one entire division of the Western Conference is east of Cleveland. If the fondest wish of these guys comes true and six teams move west, there are still a minimum of 14 franchises in the "East" (you can even eliminate St. John's and drop the number to 13). That gives you plenty of opponents for a full slate, and you can bet your bottom dollar teams will load up on their closest opponents. Heck, a number of the east teams barely play 15 opponents NOW, and that's with 19 eastern cities to choose from. There's be some shaking out when it happens, but I'm guessing owners won't be nearly as unhappy as you seem to think.

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07-31-2014, 11:07 PM
  #118
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It's not just eastern teams that complained, but again I don't think it really matters because AHL West is eventually going to happen. One thing from the BoG that I failed to mention which I thought was interesting was a discussion to implementing a scheduling matrix that would require all teams to play everybody within their conference at least once. Portland is going to attempt it this season by reducing the number of games they play against Worcester and added Syracuse to the playlist.


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08-01-2014, 01:14 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by wildcat48 View Post
It's not just eastern teams that complained, but again I don't think it really matters because AHL West is eventually going to happen. One thing from the BoG that I failed to mention which I thought was interesting was a discussion to implementing a scheduling matrix that would require all teams to play everybody within their conference at least once. Portland is going to attempt it this season by reducing the number of games they play against Worcester and added Syracuse to the playlist.
Fixed it for you.......I'm shocked that this hasn't been on the table before now. I know that Wendell Young of the Wolves campaigned loudly last year at this time for that very thing. Until 13-14 the Wolves hadn't played Rochester in about 5 seasons. The argument then was that how was it right that the league puts a greater emphasis on conference play and play within the conference, going as far as to institute a conference playoff format, but yet you could possibly lose a spot to a team you didn't even get a chance to play during the regular season. Or even play a team in the first round that you didn't play. I mean they've already, in my opinion, bastardized the playoffs with the idiotic 5 game first round, what fun would it be to find out that not only is it only 5 games but you get to play a team you've haven't faced this season.

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08-01-2014, 04:16 AM
  #120
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Fixed it for you.......I'm shocked that this hasn't been on the table before now. I know that Wendell Young of the Wolves campaigned loudly last year at this time for that very thing. Until 13-14 the Wolves hadn't played Rochester in about 5 seasons. The argument then was that how was it right that the league puts a greater emphasis on conference play and play within the conference, going as far as to institute a conference playoff format, but yet you could possibly lose a spot to a team you didn't even get a chance to play during the regular season. Or even play a team in the first round that you didn't play. I mean they've already, in my opinion, bastardized the playoffs with the idiotic 5 game first round, what fun would it be to find out that not only is it only 5 games but you get to play a team you've haven't faced this season.
Thanks... I knocked over a can of soda and my keyboard lags now when I type. I believe Wendell's passion. I know him well from his time as owner of the Lewiston Maineiacs. Great guy. He has a lot of good ideas, but he's in a tough position because he wants to run the Wolves with a level of independence while the rest of the league is looking to hand it over to the NHL.

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08-01-2014, 09:48 AM
  #121
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I hope you didn't hurt yourself with that stretch.

It's Manchester and Worcester that are likely moving west, and everything else in the region likely to be unchanged for the time being.
By the looks of things and team affiliations, the most northeastern teams are most likely to loose affiliates. St johns,Portland,Manchester and worcester. And those are the eastern teams that have the most travel in the conference. The NY,mass,conn,pa teams are tight...

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08-01-2014, 09:52 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Can't disagree with what you said.....BUT...as for the comment about developing players etc....then maybe if you(NHL) want players to be ready for the NHL, then maybe you need to emulate a realistic travel schedule in the AHL. One that replicates an NHL travel schedule so that when they get there it isn't such a shock because there are very few 2 hour bus rides in the NHL.

Quite honestly I don't think there will be opposition to an AHL western movement from the participating NHL teams that don't currently own franchises. As I stated in my example....all they have to do is inform their current partner they are leaving and at some point it turns some franchise into a lame duck. Maybe not their current partner but the dominos will fall and eventually a franchise will become available for purchase. Besides I think you'll be surprised at the willingness of teams to pay the price asked to own their own franchise and the freedom that comes with it.
Well the big difference is that NHL teams do not play 3 in 3 alot of every weekends. Its a different circumstance. And different travel style. Get that player to perform with consistancy every game is the key to getting to the NHL.

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08-01-2014, 10:27 AM
  #123
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The whole thing is going to boil down to money. If teams can move west with minimal to no added expenses and make it work they will, but if moving out west is going to cost 2 to 3 times what it costs to stay east they'll stay. The fact is it's the team executives who are pushing the move out west hard the owners I don't think really care as long as it doesn't cost them extra m

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08-01-2014, 10:28 AM
  #124
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Money*.

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08-01-2014, 01:45 PM
  #125
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Just one man's opinion . . . . . . .

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