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Zherdev in a slope?

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10-04-2003, 12:22 PM
  #1
paul99
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Zherdev in a slope?

Back in October 2002, Zherdev was ranked probable number one pick for June 2003 by many observers. Already part of the roster of the famous CSKA team, he already had 10 goals at mid-season which placed him amoung the best snipers in the Russian Superleague.

Then came his miserable performance at World Junior, not only observed by the only point he had, but also by his ethic of work and also his poor +/- record, one of the worst of his team.

After the World Junior, he just managed to add 2 goals in the Russian Championship.

His value dropped. He was selected 4th by Columbus last june.

After 10 games in RSL up to now, he just records 3 points (1-2).

I don't mean this is time to panic. But this kind of trend should justify that Columbus management get a closer look to what could be wrong with their young prospect.

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10-04-2003, 12:26 PM
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RSL is very competitive and for an 18 year old player to even get any ice time is a very good accomplishment. As a comparison I believe that Kovalchuk did not play in the RSL in his draft year (may be wrong). Zherdev is getting fourth line ice time with his team right now, that is why he hasn't put up many points.

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10-04-2003, 02:33 PM
  #3
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Maybe he wants to play in the NHL this season, and the only way to show CSKA that they should cut him loose is by playing badly for them. Kind of make CSKA throw up their hands at him and let him go. The Jackets aren't going to press too hard for him, they don't want to piss off the CSKA managment when the Jackets have three other very good prospects on the same team.

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10-04-2003, 02:51 PM
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Him dropping in the rankings is irrelevant. That happens all the time, usually their draft year is their first true season to see if they really are all they are said to be that, the year after I think is equally important. Also prospects emerge and move up considerably, just look at Fleury, Jessiman, Vanek.

I'm not sure on this but wasn't he put down by the coach in the WJC? He was not given many opportunities and it was like the team just wanted to work around Ovechkin the entire tourny.

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10-05-2003, 01:42 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
Him dropping in the rankings is irrelevant. That happens all the time, usually their draft year is their first true season to see if they really are all they are said to be that, the year after I think is equally important. Also prospects emerge and move up considerably, just look at Fleury, Jessiman, Vanek.

I'm not sure on this but wasn't he put down by the coach in the WJC? He was not given many opportunities and it was like the team just wanted to work around Ovechkin the entire tourny.
« ... irrelevant. Thats happens all the time...»??? Just to name few since 30 years, I don't think the following FIRST picks prospect dropped that much prior to the Draft Entry: Dionne, Lafleur, Potvin, McCourt, B. Smith, Ramage, Wickenheiser, Lemieux, Turgeon, Modano, Sundin, Nolan, Lindros, Thornton, Lecavalier...

Secondly, who can seriously form the hypothesis that a coach, from any country, in the most important tournament of the year, for any reason, would not put on the ice one of his best player? That is not irrelevant, that is non sense.

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10-05-2003, 04:00 AM
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I am not agree with you paul that Zherdev in a slope

About WJC U20. Lets don't forget that it was the tourney of 1983 year born players, and Zherdev is 84. The coach relied on experienced players from the previous gold team such as POLUSHIN, TRUBACHEV, GRIGORENKO, PEREZHOGIN, SHISHKANOV, ARTYUKHIN and plus young and more reliable Ovechkin. So with Zherdev's too individual game, he wasn't suited to this coach on top lines.

I am sure if he would play in top lines he would show good numbers but how his game would hurt (or wouldn't) the final result for the team on that tourney it is another question.

After WJC, Vyzov U20 Tournament took place in Russia and Zherdev was named the best forward of the tourney.

http://www.russianprospects.com/tour...v_Cup_0403.htm

In preseason games for CSKA he played pretty good and was very noticable on ice (and he still is even playing in 3rd, 4th line), he scored some goals and had assists.

As for his stats in regular season. Were you expecting point per game from the not the main player on the team? CSKA plays not in junior league. Anyway, about his game, at times he tries to play physical, he is active in offensive zone and opponents regularly receive penatlies on him.

I should add that whole CSKA team shows pretty unstable results.

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10-05-2003, 08:37 AM
  #7
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Zherdev scored his second goal of the season today.

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10-05-2003, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul99
« ... irrelevant. Thats happens all the time...»??? Just to name few since 30 years, I don't think the following FIRST picks prospect dropped that much prior to the Draft Entry: Dionne, Lafleur, Potvin, McCourt, B. Smith, Ramage, Wickenheiser, Lemieux, Turgeon, Modano, Sundin, Nolan, Lindros, Thornton, Lecavalier...

Secondly, who can seriously form the hypothesis that a coach, from any country, in the most important tournament of the year, for any reason, would not put on the ice one of his best player? That is not irrelevant, that is non sense.
I'm not sure what your point is with all the players you named so I'll skip that.

I heard he was on the fourth line the entire tourney. Slay said he never got top 2 line minutes, that is NOT irrelevant. How can you expect a player to to score while playing only 4-8 minutes a game.

It just sounds like you have something against Zherdev.

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10-05-2003, 12:02 PM
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paul99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #37-#93-#27
I'm not sure what your point is with all the players you named so I'll skip that.

I heard he was on the fourth line the entire tourney. Slay said he never got top 2 line minutes, that is NOT irrelevant. How can you expect a player to to score while playing only 4-8 minutes a game.

It just sounds like you have something against Zherdev.
I just reported facts and stats showing his stats ( and value) decreased since December 2002. Some may have an other point of view than mine. And that is okay.

But there should be no hurry to affirm someone doesn't like a player because he puts facts on the table showing his production is decreasing.

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10-05-2003, 12:13 PM
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Aaron Vickers
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I don't think his value went down at all. What indication do you have that teams, GM's, ect value him any less?

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10-05-2003, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Vickers
I don't think his value went down at all. What indication do you have that teams, GM's, ect value him any less?
Well, he was considered the #1 prospect by nearly everyone up until a few months before the draft, before to different degrees Staal, Horton, and Fleury passed him on draft lists. The three teams picking before Columbus obviously didn't have Zherdev 1st on their lists, while at the beginning of the year most articles and quotes from scouts, had him as the top pick. So a reasonable assumption would be that his value decreased.

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10-05-2003, 04:11 PM
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not making fun, but did you mean he is in a "slump" instead of a slope?

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10-05-2003, 04:23 PM
  #13
Aaron Vickers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomsday Device
Well, he was considered the #1 prospect by nearly everyone up until a few months before the draft, before to different degrees Staal, Horton, and Fleury passed him on draft lists. The three teams picking before Columbus obviously didn't have Zherdev 1st on their lists, while at the beginning of the year most articles and quotes from scouts, had him as the top pick. So a reasonable assumption would be that his value decreased.
Pittsburgh (who was at 3) was targetting Fleury the entire way. It was obvious.

Florida made it extremely clear they were after Horton or Staal.

Carolina had Staal the whole way.

Columbus had Zherdev as their #1.

Florida, Pittsburgh and Carolina didn't pass on Zherdev because of his 'slope'. They passed on him because they had other issues they'd rather address, that Zherdev wouldn't have.

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10-05-2003, 07:31 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Vickers
Pittsburgh (who was at 3) was targetting Fleury the entire way. It was obvious.

Florida made it extremely clear they were after Horton or Staal.

Carolina had Staal the whole way.

Columbus had Zherdev as their #1.

Florida, Pittsburgh and Carolina didn't pass on Zherdev because of his 'slope'. They passed on him because they had other issues they'd rather address, that Zherdev wouldn't have.
I think the assumption being made here is that since Zherdev was widely considered the best player until a few months before the draft by scouting services and other sources, that view would also have been held by NHL teams. Florida, Carolina and Pittsburgh had those players ranked ahead of Zherdev at the draft, but perhaps they had Zherdev number 1 before he went into his "slump." But like I said, this is still an assumption, but one that has a good chance of being true.

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10-06-2003, 01:37 AM
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Here is what said Ischmatov (russian coach) about Zherdev, prior to the last World Junior, as reported on hockeyinsider.com:

«Ishmatov: Zherdev could become tournament's MVP
DEC.25 (RHI) -- An obvious attempt by Russia's head coach Rafail Ishmatov to downplay his tense relationship with probable top pick at the upcoming NHL Entry Draft Nikolai Zherdev took place today.

"We (coaching staff) talked to him on several occasions of late and I believe Nikolai understands his role on the team" - stressed Ishmatov to a Russian daily Sport-Express. "Frankly, I think (Zherdev) is the best 84 born player in the country and if he manages to keep within the team concept - tournament's MVP he shall become." »

In an other report, after the fifth game of Russia, hockeyinsider.com writer wrote: «Nikolai Zherdev once again played under a dozen of minutes, but managed a couple of shots on goal to give him a total of five in as many games. Quite less than an average of six he gets in the Superleague action.»

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10-13-2003, 06:53 AM
  #16
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In today's electronic edition of Sport Express newspaper, http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?75748 ( in russian), a sportwriter asked to Tikhonov ( coach of Zherdev) « Why Zherdev is not scoring?»

Tikhonov answered: «All the talks about his oversea's contract disturb Zherdev.» Tikhonov is condident that his player will begin to score. » It is just a matter of time», concluded Tikhonov.

After 13 games, Zherdev has now 2+2 (4 points).

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10-13-2003, 07:46 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul99
« ... irrelevant. Thats happens all the time...»??? Just to name few since 30 years, I don't think the following FIRST picks prospect dropped that much prior to the Draft Entry: Dionne, Lafleur, Potvin, McCourt, B. Smith, Ramage, Wickenheiser, Lemieux, Turgeon, Modano, Sundin, Nolan, Lindros, Thornton, Lecavalier...
And yet Bouwmeester, Spezza, Cleary, Gaborik and others did drop.

Players like Lecavalier, Lindros, Spezza, Bouwmeester are labelled as phenoms. It is thus surprising when one (or in the case of this example two) of them does not make it 1st overall. However it was already clear MORE THAN A YEAR AGO that Zherdev was just labelled a very good player and the best of the draft from the various reports read on him. He was not any type of "next one" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, Ovechkin was already the guy everybody was excited about.

Seeing the strong CHL crop, it was a given he would have tough competition for the #1 spot. I'd go as far as to say Horton not going first was just as surprising. He was hyped a lot too at the beginning of the season.

He's right. It happens all the time. Which doesn't mean it happens every time.

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