HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Worst players with 1000+ points

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-04-2005, 11:09 AM
  #1
Chileiceman
Registered User
 
Chileiceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Chile
Posts: 8,818
vCash: 500
Worst players with 1000+ points

We all know that Bobby Orr was the best player to have never reached 1000 points.
But who is the worst player to have accomplished that feat. Being the worst out of that list doesn't mean that player was necessarily bad just not as good as the other ones.
1 Wayne Gretzky 2857
2 Mark Messier 1887
3 Gordie Howe 1850
4 Ron Francis 1798
5 Marcel Dionne 1771
6 Steve Yzerman 1721
7 Mario Lemieux 1701
8 Phil Esposito 1590
9 Ray Bourque 1579
10 Paul Coffey 1531
11 Stan Mikita 1467
12 Bryan Trottier 1425
13 Adam Oates 1420
14 Doug Gilmour 1414
15 Dale Hawerchuk 1409
16 Joe Sakic 1402
17 Jari Kurri 1398
18 Brett Hull 1390
19 Luc Robitaille 1370
20 Johnny Bucyk 1369
21 Guy Lafleur 1353
22 Denis Savard 1338
23 Mike Gartner 1335
24 Gilbert Perreault 1326
25 Dave Andreychuk 1320
26 Jaromir Jagr 1309
27 Alex Delvecchio 1281
28 Al MacInnis 1274
28 Pierre Turgeon 1274
30 Jean Ratelle 1267
31 Peter Stastny 1239
32 Phil Housley 1232
33 Norm Ullman 1229
34 Jean Beliveau 1219
35 Larry Murphy 1216
36 Bobby Clarke 1210
37 Bernie Nicholls 1209
38 Vincent Damphousse 1205
39 Mark Recchi 1201
40 Dino Ciccarelli 1200
41 Bobby Hull 1170
42 Michel Goulet 1152
43 Brendan Shanahan 1151
44 Bernie Federko 1130
45 Mike Bossy 1126
46 Darryl Sittler 1121
47 Jeremy Roenick 1120
48 Mike Modano 1106
49 Frank Mahovlich 1103
50 Glenn Anderson 1099
51 Mats Sundin 1089
52 Theoren Fleury 1088
53 Dave Taylor 1069
54 Pat Verbeek 1063
54 Joe Mullen 1063
56 Joe Nieuwendyk 1062
57 Denis Potvin 1052
58 Henri Richard 1046
59 Bobby Smith 1036
60 Brian Bellows 1022
61 Rod Gilbert 1021
62 Dale Hunter 1020
63 Sergei Fedorov 1019
64 Pat LaFontaine 1013
65 Steve Larmer 1012
66 Alexander Mogilny 1007
67 Lanny McDonald 1006
68 Brian Propp 1004
Discuss

Chileiceman is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 11:33 AM
  #2
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,473
vCash: 500
1. Pat Verbeek
2. Dino Ciccarelli
3. Dave Andreychuk
4. Bernie Nicholls
5. Joe Nieuwendyk

The thought of any of these guys in the Hall of Fame is ridiculous.

reckoning is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 11:38 AM
  #3
Verbeek
Human see, human do.
 
Verbeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 1,479
vCash: 500
I think this thread is rediculous. Not all of those guys should automatically get in the HOF because of the numbers... thats a good question. But to answer the question at hand, they played for a while and got to 1000+, how do any of them not deserve atleast credit for doing it? Dumb question.

Verbeek is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 11:54 AM
  #4
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 11,378
vCash: 500
Dino Ciccarelli is definitely up there

cassius is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 12:02 PM
  #5
Strong Island
Registered User
 
Strong Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbeek
I think this thread is rediculous. Not all of those guys should automatically get in the HOF because of the numbers... thats a good question. But to answer the question at hand, they played for a while and got to 1000+, how do any of them not deserve atleast credit for doing it? Dumb question.
It's not a dumb question at all really. The original poster is just asking for opinions on who, of the elite 1000 point club, are the players who for some reason or another aren't looked upon as being "1000 pt quality" or "HOF material". He's not asking who deserves more credit or not, he's asking who are the worst players of the bunch. Since I'm too young to have seen most of these players in their respective primes, I will refrain.

Strong Island is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 12:16 PM
  #6
Verbeek
Human see, human do.
 
Verbeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 1,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkball7
It's not a dumb question at all really. The original poster is just asking for opinions on who, of the elite 1000 point club, are the players who for some reason or another aren't looked upon as being "1000 pt quality" or "HOF material". He's not asking who deserves more credit or not, he's asking who are the worst players of the bunch. Since I'm too young to have seen most of these players in their respective primes, I will refrain.
I'm just stating that I think the question is worded poorly. You could argue that alot of these guys wouldn't have made 1000+ point if it wern't for their longevity.. but they had to be consistant in putting up numbers each year.. so I don't know if id call them bad players.

Verbeek is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 12:19 PM
  #7
Vikke
ViktorAllvin twitter
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vimmerby, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 13,476
vCash: 685
I thought Bernie Nicholls was a very good scorer? Haven't read much about him, just his stats and stuff. Enlighten me!

Vikke is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 12:41 PM
  #8
wedge
Registered User
 
wedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: victoriaville
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,421
vCash: 500
Brian Propp, Brian Bellows, Pat Verbeek, Dale Hunter.

good players, but not great.

wedge is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 12:59 PM
  #9
Strong Island
Registered User
 
Strong Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verbeek
I'm just stating that I think the question is worded poorly. You could argue that alot of these guys wouldn't have made 1000+ point if it wern't for their longevity.. but they had to be consistant in putting up numbers each year.. so I don't know if id call them bad players.
I think it was worded nicely actually. Its the wording in your posts which have me confused.

Strong Island is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 01:16 PM
  #10
flambers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,479
vCash: 500
I personally hate this topic any player who gets 1000 points deserves to get respect.

flambers is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 01:17 PM
  #11
mazmin
Go! Jets! Go!
 
mazmin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,869
vCash: 500
Hunter, Verbeek, Anderson, Dino...

mazmin is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 01:47 PM
  #12
Flash Walken
Registered User
 
Flash Walken's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,233
vCash: 500
Two observations:

1) I had no idea Yzerman was that high in point totals. As I'm only 20, I missed out on just about all of his prolific scoring years, so I've only been able to be impressed by stories of his scoring ability. Seeing these numbers though, and hearing the old story about scotty sitting him down and telling him essentially that he was no longer 'the scorer' on the team, but now had more of a checker role, his points statistic really impresses me. He must be one of the most complete players recent hockey history, no?

2) I totally disagree with reckonings post having Joe Nieuwendyk on the list. 3 cups on 3 different teams, a conn smythe, a calder, and I believe held(tie) the old record of 6 game winning goals in one playoff season? Add to 1000 points and I'd say that's pretty good.

Flash Walken is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 03:28 PM
  #13
arrbez
bad chi
 
arrbez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,610
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to arrbez
Brian Bellows for sure

arrbez is offline  
Old
09-04-2005, 03:47 PM
  #14
Verbeek
Human see, human do.
 
Verbeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 1,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkball7
I think it was worded nicely actually. Its the wording in your posts which have me confused.
I'm sorry to have confused you with simple words.

I see a "Worst players to score 500 goals" thread in your future. =)

Verbeek is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 12:41 AM
  #15
God Bless Canada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bentley reunion
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,792
vCash: 500
First of all, Joe Nieuwendyk is a Hall-of-Famer. He has three Cup rings, and played a pivotal role in all three of those wins. He has been the embodiment of a clutch players for 15 years. He carried the Leafs offence on his back in the 2004 playoffs. He's been a great goal scorer for pretty much his entire career.

Second, I have a hard time begrudging any player's place on this list. You can talk about longevity, sticking around for a long time, etc., but they're on this list because they were top offensive producers for an extended period of time.

However, I will say this: Turgeon will be the new standard for point-producers not in the Hall. He has a good chance of finishing his career in the top 25 scorers ever, and an outside shot at the top 20. But he will be remembered as a soft, one-dimensional player who struggled with consistency.

God Bless Canada is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 12:47 AM
  #16
Hedberg
MLD Glue Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,243
vCash: 500
Brian Bellows

Hedberg is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 01:17 AM
  #17
Hyped
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tombstone
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,568
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryderama
Brian Propp, Brian Bellows, Pat Verbeek, Dale Hunter.

good players, but not great.
Brian Propp? He was one of the most underrated players of his day. The guy played excellent two-way hockey and scored 35 goals a year. He was physical and extremely intelligent. And he primarily did it all with Tim Kerr as his centerman. Nothing against Kerr, who I like as a player, but he wasn't exactly Gretzky when it came to dishing the puck...

Hyped is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 01:20 AM
  #18
USF Shark
Zôion politikōn
 
USF Shark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DC Area
Country: United States
Posts: 20,601
vCash: 500
Good list, I don't have too much of a beef with the positions, but just a thought, shouldn't the defensemen who scored over a thousand points be rated higher up because let's face it....it's pretty freaking hard to score a thousand points when you're a defenseman (not that it's easy in general...)

USF Shark is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 08:58 AM
  #19
VanIslander
Hope for better 2015
 
VanIslander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
2. Dino Ciccarelli
5. Joe Nieuwendyk
The thought of any of these guys in the Hall of Fame is ridiculous.
We haven't been watching the same sport then. They both were incredible and have accomplished a lot, even when it matters the most, in the playoffs.

Quote:
32 Phil Housley 1232
35 Larry Murphy 1216
50 Glenn Anderson 1099
54 Pat Verbeek 1063
65 Steve Larmer 1012
I personally believe these guys were a notch below HHOF material.

But I also believe they are worth recognizing... as are many who had other limited roles OTHER than scoring.

VanIslander is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 09:38 AM
  #20
interminded
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,074
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flambers
I personally hate this topic any player who gets 1000 points deserves to get respect.

Absolutely true.
Not to offend anybody, but there are a lot of pointless, almost stupid threads the last couple of weeks.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and weīre all asking different things because we have different interests.
But somehow, all this waiting for the new season gets many people to post ridiculous posts, like the top-50 goaltenders with brown hair, the top-30 worst leftwingers that should have had 5 consecutive 60-points season but havenīt and so on..

Again, post whatever you want to post, but donīt be suprised when some people do have a different opinion. Thatīs what this board is all about, isnīt it ?

About this one:
I really really believe that every soul that managed to accomplish a number like 1000 points has earned it.
And that not all of them have the godgiven talent that Gretzky had, seems very very obvious.
So why ask ?
Just to get a thousand different opinions ?

Let me state this again: Iīm not trying to offend anyone, but some threads are really just plain pointless.

interminded is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 10:37 AM
  #21
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chileiceman
We all know that Bobby Orr was the best player to have never reached 1000 points.
But who is the worst player to have accomplished that feat. Being the worst out of that list doesn't mean that player was necessarily bad just not as good as the other ones.
1 Wayne Gretzky 2857
2 Mark Messier 1887
3 Gordie Howe 1850
4 Ron Francis 1798
5 Marcel Dionne 1771
6 Steve Yzerman 1721
7 Mario Lemieux 1701
8 Phil Esposito 1590
9 Ray Bourque 1579
10 Paul Coffey 1531
11 Stan Mikita 1467
12 Bryan Trottier 1425
13 Adam Oates 1420
14 Doug Gilmour 1414
15 Dale Hawerchuk 1409
16 Joe Sakic 1402
17 Jari Kurri 1398
18 Brett Hull 1390
19 Luc Robitaille 1370
20 Johnny Bucyk 1369
21 Guy Lafleur 1353
22 Denis Savard 1338
23 Mike Gartner 1335
24 Gilbert Perreault 1326
25 Dave Andreychuk 1320
26 Jaromir Jagr 1309
27 Alex Delvecchio 1281
28 Al MacInnis 1274
28 Pierre Turgeon 1274
30 Jean Ratelle 1267
31 Peter Stastny 1239
32 Phil Housley 1232
33 Norm Ullman 1229
34 Jean Beliveau 1219
35 Larry Murphy 1216
36 Bobby Clarke 1210
37 Bernie Nicholls 1209
38 Vincent Damphousse 1205
39 Mark Recchi 1201
40 Dino Ciccarelli 1200
41 Bobby Hull 1170
42 Michel Goulet 1152
43 Brendan Shanahan 1151
44 Bernie Federko 1130
45 Mike Bossy 1126
46 Darryl Sittler 1121
47 Jeremy Roenick 1120
48 Mike Modano 1106
49 Frank Mahovlich 1103
50 Glenn Anderson 1099
51 Mats Sundin 1089
52 Theoren Fleury 1088
53 Dave Taylor 1069
54 Pat Verbeek 1063
54 Joe Mullen 1063
56 Joe Nieuwendyk 1062
57 Denis Potvin 1052
58 Henri Richard 1046
59 Bobby Smith 1036
60 Brian Bellows 1022
61 Rod Gilbert 1021
62 Dale Hunter 1020
63 Sergei Fedorov 1019
64 Pat LaFontaine 1013
65 Steve Larmer 1012
66 Alexander Mogilny 1007
67 Lanny McDonald 1006
68 Brian Propp 1004
Discuss
Unlike many on this thread who say this is pointless, there is a point to it. Some of the players that have achieved 1000 points, were able to do so because they played during the highest scoring era of NHL hockey - the 80s. Many on the list played during a more defensive time and their 1000 points are "worth" more than others. As well, there are MANY players that did not play during the 80s with the high offensive style and 80 game seasons, that do belong on any top scorers list.

When you adjust for era and take into account rule changes etc. this should be the top 68 scorers of all time:

1 Wayne Gretzky
2 Gordie Howe
3 Mario Lemieux
4 Phil Esposito
5 Stan Mikita
6 Maurice Richard
7 Bobby Hull
8 Cy Denneny
9 Jaromir Jagr
10 Jean Beliveau
11 Andy Bathgate
12 Bobby Orr
Marcel Dionne
14 Howie Morenz
15 Ted Lindsay
16 Guy Lafleur
17 Babe Dye
18 Bill Cowley
19 Mike Bossy
Joe Sakic
21 Doug Bentley
22 Max Bentley
23 Bill Cook
24 Charlie Conacher
25 Newsy Lalonde
Bernie Geoffrion
27 Frank Boucher
28 Joe Malone
Elmer Lach
30 Peter Stastny
31 Harvey Jackson
Sweeney Schriner
33 Nels Stewart
Aurel Joliat
Peter Forsberg
36 Toe Blake
37 Marty Barry
Syl Apps, Sr.
Bryan Trottier
Teemu Selanne
41 Norm Ullman
Paul Coffey
43 Sid Abel
Bobby Clarke
Jari Kurri
46 Markus Naslund
Mark Messier
48 Jean Ratelle
Steve Yzerman
Adam Oates
51 Paul Kariya
Gordie Drillon
53 Milt Schmidt
Joe Primeau
Dickie Moore
Lynn Patrick
57 Frank Mahovlich
58 Frank Nighbor
Denis Savard
Pavel Bure
Bryan Hextall
62 Brett Hull
Billy Boucher
64 Ace Bailey
Henri Richard
Ken Hodge
67 Gilbert Perreault
68 Clint Smith

Ogopogo* is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 11:42 AM
  #22
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
We haven't been watching the same sport then. They both were incredible and have accomplished a lot, even when it matters the most, in the playoffs.
Ciccarelli - A power-play specialist who ranks high here because he scored a lot of goals in a high-scoring era but was never close to being one of the best goal scorers in the game. Despite playing his prime years in the league`s weakest division, he was only a top 10 goal scorer twice in his entire career, a mark bettered or equalled by players like Hodge, Redmond, Maruk, Vaive, Bullard, Richer, Carson, and Sheppard - guys who likely never received a single vote for the Hall.
It would be something if he excelled in other areas as well but he didn`t. Was never much of a playmaker, was a liability defensively and I must have missed his great playoff play. Other than his first year, his playoff resume is pretty mediocre. In fact, after Detroit didn`t win as expected in `96, Bowman singled him out as one of the guys he had to get rid of in order for the Wings to win a Cup. He did, and they did.

Nieuwendyk - A very good player, far better than Ciccarelli, but IMO not quite up to Hall standards. The major argument people have in his favour is that he hit 500 goals and won 3 Cups with 3 different teams. Well due to expansion diluting the quality and inflated scoring in the 80s and early 90s, the 500 mark lost any
signifance it used to have (hello Pat Verbeek). His three Cups: the Calgary team in `89 was a powerhouse, he was nowhere near the top of the team in playoff scoring and didn`t contribute much defensively, he played well with Dallas in `99 but Belfour or Modano were far more deserving of the Conn Smythe, with New Jersey in `03 he was injured and didn`t even play in the Final. What about the rest of his career? If you consider the 3 cups, you also have to consider the 10 years he lost in the 1st round.
Bottom line: there`s a few players in the Hall who Nieuwendyk was better than, but there`s far more players not in the Hall who were better than him.

Before anybody jumps over me with "How dare you criticize anything about a 1000 point scorer" the first message in this thread acknowledged that all these players were great but who would rank near the bottom of that list. If anybody`s upset that I put Ciccarelli in the bottom five, then what five players from that list would you rank below him?

These scoring lists are nothing more than trivia if you`re not going to examine the different variables from each players eras and the other aspects of their game. I mean, it would be pretty stupid for somebody to say Luc Robitaille was better than Maurice Richard because of more career goals, without looking at the entire picture.

reckoning is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 08:08 PM
  #23
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,833
vCash: 968
Nicholls is the worst of that bunch for me. Not a bad player, but certainly not great, never really accomplished anything spectacular other than that one special season..

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 08:14 PM
  #24
wilka91*
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,251
vCash: 500
vebreek, hunter and howe

wilka91* is offline  
Old
09-05-2005, 08:47 PM
  #25
Chileiceman
Registered User
 
Chileiceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Chile
Posts: 8,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by roshiajin
vebreek, hunter and howe

Chileiceman is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2015 All Rights Reserved.