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Worst players with 1000+ points

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Old
09-07-2005, 02:54 AM
  #51
benji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo

When you adjust for era and take into account rule changes etc. this should be the top 68 scorers of all time:

1 Wayne Gretzky

Jari Kurri
46 Mark Messier
Who's logic are you using here, because all of these players played in the same era, especially Messier and Gretzky. Messier is the second leading point getter of all-time but because of era adjustment he falls behind a good 65 players? Absolute nonsense.

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09-07-2005, 04:21 PM
  #52
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Murphy
Verbeek
Dale Hunter

How in heaven's name did these clowns manage to score 1,000 points? They shouldn't even have been given enough ice time to get close! I guess hanging on during the late 90's drought of good players helped THESE boys out! Sheesh!

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Old
09-07-2005, 05:17 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benji
Who's logic are you using here, because all of these players played in the same era, especially Messier and Gretzky. Messier is the second leading point getter of all-time but because of era adjustment he falls behind a good 65 players? Absolute nonsense.
I could explain why this is but, I don't have the time to get into it again.

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Old
09-07-2005, 07:38 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Ciccarelli - A power-play specialist who ranks high here because he scored a lot of goals in a high-scoring era but was never close to being one of the best goal scorers in the game. Despite playing his prime years in the league`s weakest division, he was only a top 10 goal scorer twice in his entire career, a mark bettered or equalled by players like Hodge, Redmond, Maruk, Vaive, Bullard, Richer, Carson, and Sheppard - guys who likely never received a single vote for the Hall.
It would be something if he excelled in other areas as well but he didn`t. Was never much of a playmaker, was a liability defensively and I must have missed his great playoff play. Other than his first year, his playoff resume is pretty mediocre. In fact, after Detroit didn`t win as expected in `96, Bowman singled him out as one of the guys he had to get rid of in order for the Wings to win a Cup. He did, and they did.

Nieuwendyk - A very good player, far better than Ciccarelli, but IMO not quite up to Hall standards. The major argument people have in his favour is that he hit 500 goals and won 3 Cups with 3 different teams. Well due to expansion diluting the quality and inflated scoring in the 80s and early 90s, the 500 mark lost any
signifance it used to have (hello Pat Verbeek). His three Cups: the Calgary team in `89 was a powerhouse, he was nowhere near the top of the team in playoff scoring and didn`t contribute much defensively, he played well with Dallas in `99 but Belfour or Modano were far more deserving of the Conn Smythe, with New Jersey in `03 he was injured and didn`t even play in the Final. What about the rest of his career? If you consider the 3 cups, you also have to consider the 10 years he lost in the 1st round.
Bottom line: there`s a few players in the Hall who Nieuwendyk was better than, but there`s far more players not in the Hall who were better than him.

Before anybody jumps over me with "How dare you criticize anything about a 1000 point scorer" the first message in this thread acknowledged that all these players were great but who would rank near the bottom of that list. If anybody`s upset that I put Ciccarelli in the bottom five, then what five players from that list would you rank below him?

These scoring lists are nothing more than trivia if you`re not going to examine the different variables from each players eras and the other aspects of their game. I mean, it would be pretty stupid for somebody to say Luc Robitaille was better than Maurice Richard because of more career goals, without looking at the entire picture.
Whatever you may think about Cicarelli skills, bottom line => 608 GOALS. That's all that needs to be said, and he belongs in the HHOF.

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Old
09-08-2005, 06:31 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
First of all, Joe Nieuwendyk is a Hall-of-Famer. He has three Cup rings
Actually, Nieuwendyk was injured when the Devils won, but pointed taken.

-----

Two skilled but heartless ex-Sabres:

Housley and Turgeon. It used to be said that when the blue and gold were donned, a big blast of estrogen entered the system. These two personified that level.

Interestingly, Andreychuk was part of that group also, but showed what was never appreciated in Buffalo. Yeah, he's big and slow (visualize him on the left wing with Lafontaine and Mogilny) without a physical game. Fans just about ran him out of town, the first time, basically for not being Cam Neely. Amazing turn of events that he would return. A tribute to the influence of Doug Gilmour. Sorry to digrees. Andreychuk redeemed himself. He understood that his body wouldn't be able to withstand constant punishment from a more physical game. He would suffer enough from getting whacked, while he was parked in front of the net, trying to bang in rebounds.

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Old
09-08-2005, 06:36 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Murphy
Verbeek
Dale Hunter

How in heaven's name did these clowns manage to score 1,000 points? They shouldn't even have been given enough ice time to get close! I guess hanging on during the late 90's drought of good players helped THESE boys out! Sheesh!

hardly clowns......calling them such only looks bad on you. Although never stars.....very quality hockey players all teams need

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Old
09-08-2005, 06:51 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Murphy
Verbeek
Dale Hunter

How in heaven's name did these clowns manage to score 1,000 points? They shouldn't even have been given enough ice time to get close! I guess hanging on during the late 90's drought of good players helped THESE boys out! Sheesh!
So did you watch any kind of hockey? While I would say Verbeek and Hunter are guys you wouldn't call elite players, Larry Murphy was clearly one of the best dmen of his time. Hands down. He consistently produced points and played sound defensive hockey. Clowns, that's a good one bud.

I'm really amazed at some of the guys people are saying aren't HOF material or aren't great players:

Brian Propp - like others have said, this one is insane. Anyone who watched Propp knows how good he really was. One of the best LWers the league has seen in some time. Outstanding two way player that could do it all.

Jari Kurry - you've got to be kidding me? The only reason people are pointing him out is to say that Gretz set him up all his career. Ya, that's true, but Kurri also put them in the net. Uncanny ability to score goals. Anyone who watched him could see that.

Dave Taylor - another one that I just can't figure out. People don't see him as great because he was never talked about as such, but he had one stellar career. Could score, play all around hockey and a great leader. As was said, he was one of the few big time players the Kings had.

Considering who people are pointing out (Nieuwy, Ciccarelli, etc.) I don't see how Bernie Federko's name hasn't come out. He comes across to me as one of those guys that got into the HOF because of a weak class that year. I don't see him hall material, but very close. Good scorer, not great.

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Old
09-08-2005, 07:07 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggs 10
Murphy
Verbeek
Dale Hunter

How in heaven's name did these clowns manage to score 1,000 points? They shouldn't even have been given enough ice time to get close! I guess hanging on during the late 90's drought of good players helped THESE boys out! Sheesh!
Hunter is far from being a clown

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Old
09-08-2005, 07:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsCrazyX17
Hunter is far from being a clown
I agree but playing with Goulet and Statsny have really helped his stats.

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Old
09-08-2005, 07:37 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
I agree but playing with Goulet and Statsny have really helped his stats.
Where were Goulet and Statsny when he played in Washington?

first 7 seasons with the Nords...458 points/65 points per season avg
first 7 seasons with the Caps....419 points/60 points per season avg

he did play 8 more games for Washington during that span......

look at the playoffs....same 7 season spans

67 games for Nords.....42 points
66 games for Caps......54 points

so I ask again......where were Goulet and Statsny when he was traded to Washington?

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Old
09-08-2005, 09:28 PM
  #61
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Bellows stands out to me as the 'worst' 1000 point guy.

Fine player, not pretty but excellent on the PP, had one really good season where he scored 55 goals. Other than that one season, he averaged about 35 goals and 75 points/year during the highest-scoring era of all time. That's equatable to averaging 25-28 goals and 60 or so points/year today. Not exactly spectacular.

Dale Hunter is in the same category, as well.

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Old
09-08-2005, 09:35 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Bellows stands out to me as the 'worst' 1000 point guy.

Fine player, not pretty but excellent on the PP, had one really good season where he scored 55 goals. Other than that one season, he averaged about 35 goals and 75 points/year during the highest-scoring era of all time. That's equatable to averaging 25-28 goals and 60 or so points/year today. Not exactly spectacular.

Dale Hunter is in the same category, as well.
Dale Hunter and Brian Bellows are not in anything close to the same category.....

Hunter, in his prime was a pretty good offensive player.....a clutch playoff guy......but as gritty as they come. The reason he has 1,000 points is absolutely due to a long career.....but we are talking about a 1,000 point player who happens to also be 2nd all time in PIMs

these 2 should never be mentioned in the same breath

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Old
09-08-2005, 10:01 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsCrazyX17
Hunter is far from being a clown
As an 80's Habs fan I second that. Hunter was an enormous thorn in our sides and every Montrealer hated his guts. But his series ending goal in Game 5, 1982 was the real killer. It took some people years to get over that goal.

I can still see him circling the net and reaching for the open side and Robinson sliding into the net and trying to remove the puck with his hand and telling the ref it didnt go in. Bad habs scene.

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Old
09-08-2005, 10:12 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Where were Goulet and Statsny when he played in Washington?

first 7 seasons with the Nords...458 points/65 points per season avg
first 7 seasons with the Caps....419 points/60 points per season avg

he did play 8 more games for Washington during that span......

look at the playoffs....same 7 season spans

67 games for Nords.....42 points
66 games for Caps......54 points

so I ask again......where were Goulet and Statsny when he was traded to Washington?
they become Bondra Pivonka etc

Seriously i did'nt knew he had a 78 and a 79 point years in Washington.

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Old
09-08-2005, 10:56 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik
they become Bondra Pivonka etc

Seriously i did'nt knew he had a 78 and a 79 point years in Washington.
heh.....well, he didnt play with those guys in Washington......but I know you are kidding

The Caps got exactly what they were looking for when they traded for Hunter......some talk about how it was a bad trade, seeing how the Nords turned the pick into Sakic......but Hunter was a playoff warrior and the ultimate team captain/leader......anyone saying he is a clown has no clue and probably never saw him play back in the day.......total guts guy......1,000 points and 2nd all time in PIMs is pretty impressive.....he also has at least 2 playoff series clinching OT goals, how many can say that? I wont even try to make an HOF case for him.......but the guy was the player you wanted on your team and didnt want to play against

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Old
09-08-2005, 11:03 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Bellows stands out to me as the 'worst' 1000 point guy.

Fine player, not pretty but excellent on the PP, had one really good season where he scored 55 goals. Other than that one season, he averaged about 35 goals and 75 points/year during the highest-scoring era of all time. That's equatable to averaging 25-28 goals and 60 or so points/year today. Not exactly spectacular.

Dale Hunter is in the same category, as well.
Bellows was a solid player throughout the 80s and early 90s. He could get mean at times, too. I see no reason to denigrate his accomplishments. Nicholls gets my vote. He had that one mad year, but I never liked his playing style.

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Old
09-09-2005, 12:57 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
As an 80's Habs fan I second that. Hunter was an enormous thorn in our sides and every Montrealer hated his guts. But his series ending goal in Game 5, 1982 was the real killer. It took some people years to get over that goal.
I can still see him circling the net and reaching for the open side and Robinson sliding into the net and trying to remove the puck with his hand and telling the ref it didnt go in. Bad habs scene.

Thank God for the invention of rogaine, viagara and double captain with coke, hold the coke..

Surely that has helped ease the pain

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Old
09-09-2005, 03:20 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritty
Brian Propp - like others have said, this one is insane. Anyone who watched Propp knows how good he really was. One of the best LWers the league has seen in some time. Outstanding two way player that could do it all.
Whew, finally some back-up. Thanks Kritty. I think he's getting the votes ebcause he is at the bottom of the list and most of the people on the board have never even seen him play. If they had, he wouldn't even have been a thought for this category. I don't even know of anyone to compare him to in today's NHL. I don't think there is anyone on the wing even close to as complete as Propp was including scoring, two-way play, physicalness, and intelligence. Maybe Mark Recchi, in his prime, comes closest (but still not at Propp's level)? Anyone else you can think of?

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Old
09-09-2005, 03:51 PM
  #69
12# Peter Bondra
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All of the players listed are good. If you get 1000 NHL points, you cant be bad. Each was good in one way or the other.

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09-09-2005, 04:09 PM
  #70
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Performances at clutch times need to somehow figure into this. Playoff success is important too. A lot of these guys never came even close to winning the cup.

So I'll take Joe Neuwendyk's 1062 points over Marcel Dionne's 1771.

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Old
09-09-2005, 04:41 PM
  #71
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Isn't that like asking which is the ugliest of the 2004 playboy bunnies????

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Old
09-09-2005, 05:19 PM
  #72
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Hunter? One of the worst players with 1,000 points? Guys, give your heads a shake. He hit 1,000 points, and offence wasn't even his strong suit. The guy was all grit, toughness and leadership. He's probably one of the best leaders from the past 25 years. He was a tough, gritty leader who managed to reach 1,000 points because he was effective at what he did for so long, and had enough talent to eventually reach a milestone.

Murphy? Yeah, sure. Bad players don't get Norris nominations, or three all-star team nominations, or play key roles in winning two Cups with two different teams, or a first-ballot HHOF nomination.

Nieuwendyk? For the record, he scored 50 goals in Calgary's Cup-winning season. A lot of those first round losses were far from his fault. His clutch scoring won him the Conn Smythe in 1999. (Many of the 11 goals were game winners, insurance goals or first goals). He didn't play in the final in 2003, but that doesn't mean he didn't make contributions in the first three rounds, or in the locker room in the final against Anaheim. Nieuwendyk carried the Leafs offence on his back in 2004.

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Old
09-09-2005, 05:31 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless Canada
Hunter? One of the worst players with 1,000 points? Guys, give your heads a shake. He hit 1,000 points, and offence wasn't even his strong suit. The guy was all grit, toughness and leadership. He's probably one of the best leaders from the past 25 years. He was a tough, gritty leader who managed to reach 1,000 points because he was effective at what he did for so long, and had enough talent to eventually reach a milestone.

Murphy? Yeah, sure. Bad players don't get Norris nominations, or three all-star team nominations, or play key roles in winning two Cups with two different teams, or a first-ballot HHOF nomination.

Nieuwendyk? For the record, he scored 50 goals in Calgary's Cup-winning season. A lot of those first round losses were far from his fault. His clutch scoring won him the Conn Smythe in 1999. (Many of the 11 goals were game winners, insurance goals or first goals). He didn't play in the final in 2003, but that doesn't mean he didn't make contributions in the first three rounds, or in the locker room in the final against Anaheim. Nieuwendyk carried the Leafs offence on his back in 2004.
No he didn't. He contributed, didn't carry them though.

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Old
09-09-2005, 05:33 PM
  #74
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Plus he missed a few games in those playoffs with his back.

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Old
09-09-2005, 05:37 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito
Performances at clutch times need to somehow figure into this. Playoff success is important too. A lot of these guys never came even close to winning the cup.

So I'll take Joe Neuwendyk's 1062 points over Marcel Dionne's 1771.
You blame Marcel Dionne for the inadequacies of his General Manager?

Why not blame him for Hurricane Katrina as well?

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