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Oilers Gearing Up Big Push for Phaneuf

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06-14-2014, 02:28 PM
  #101
Atomos2
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Anything with gagner is easily refusable

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06-14-2014, 02:29 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
I can absolutely guarantee none of Eberle Yak or this year's first will be moved for Phaneuf at full cap hit. Eberle especially. The optics of bringing in someone making more than Hall would be bad and Phaneuf isn't worth it.

I can see our 2015 first being on the table but given that its likely to be top 10 in a deep draft I wouldn't move that either.

Thankfully Eklund gonna Eklund.
Hall is on an RFA deal, Phaneuf on a UFA deal from the new CBA.

The only people who have trouble with the "optics" are completely blind

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06-14-2014, 02:32 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
While I agree with all of this, he is getting paid like an elite #1. Therein lies the problem. Only 10 D make 6 million. And he makes 7 million which is tied for 5th in the league.

And he should play some of the hardest minutes if he us paid like one and a #1. If not him, then who else on your team should?
You can't compare the contract just on cap hit when most of the top 20-25 D-men in the league are either RFA or have signed cap circumventing deals.

He gets paid like a top 20 D-man who is an UFA under the rules of the last CBA. And that might be a slight overpayment, but not by much. With the cap supposed to go up by a lot over the coming two years, the contract will probably look good with 5 years left if he can keep up his game.

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06-14-2014, 02:33 PM
  #104
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Also I would like to add for serious thought:

Even if Phaneuf is overpaid slightly (which I don't think he is) does that really matter to Edmonton?

EDM has not be able to lure any UFAs in recent memory prior to Pronger. Their only chance to get one is to massively overpay so with that regards Phaneuf is probably a good use of their money. I can guarantee you he is significantly better than Niskanen @ 6M

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06-14-2014, 02:34 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Toronto
Sam Gagner
3rd Overall

Edmonton
Dion Phaneuf
Nazem Kadri
Honestly I might consider this, two top ten picks intrigue me. We would be a bottom five team next year and pick up another top prospect. Edmonton would get out of the basement. Losing kadri hurts though.

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06-14-2014, 02:38 PM
  #106
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I don't think phaneuf is the answer for the oilers, especially with a 7x7 contract. They should go all in for the 1st overall pick and make a good offer for a guy like Josi.
For example,
Yakupov for 1st ovr
3rd ovr for josi

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06-14-2014, 02:45 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
While I agree with all of this, he is getting paid like an elite #1. Therein lies the problem. Only 10 D make 6 million. And he makes 7 million which is tied for 5th in the league.

And he should play some of the hardest minutes if he us paid like one and a #1. If not him, then who else on your team should?
You're right, but let me put it this way. If Phaneuf was used properly he could realistically be a 45-55 point defenseman. To put it in perspective, James Wisniewski is a 5.5m cap hit, Keith Yandle is at 5.25m, Niskanen should clock in at 5.5 or 6 this summer, and Mark Streit gets 5.25m. Personally, I would take Phaneuf over all of them quite easily. He's as good or better defensively, and he brings a physical element.

Based on those guys, I think it's reasonable to conclude that a fair cap hit for Phaneuf is around 6-6.25m. So you're overpaying by .75m-1m to have a top pairing defender. Considering the shortage of top pairing defenders in the league and the rising cap, I don't think that is terrible.

Also, it's tough to nail down what an elite #1 defender should be getting paid. Just because guys like McDonagh and Keith are getting underpaid should not have bearing on the perception of Phaneuf's contract.

I agree that he is overpaid, but considering what you get, it's hardly the worst area of your team to allocate extra cap dollars. I'd rather be overpaying Phaneuf by 750k than be overpaying, say, Dan Girardi by the same amount. Just an example.

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06-14-2014, 02:47 PM
  #108
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Kadri + Phaneuf + 8th overall

for

3rd overall + Yakupov/Eberle + Schultz

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06-14-2014, 02:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Nithoniniel View Post
You can't compare the contract just on cap hit when most of the top 20-25 D-men in the league are either RFA or have signed cap circumventing deals.

He gets paid like a top 20 D-man who is an UFA under the rules of the last CBA. And that might be a slight overpayment, but not by much. With the cap supposed to go up by a lot over the coming two years, the contract will probably look good with 5 years left if he can keep up his game.
When you go look at top Cap hits, only 3 guys have the crazy years on their contract....Keith, Weber and Suter. And only Keith has a lower salary than Dion.

Bouwmeester signed his deal the say summer as Dion. He signed for 5.4 mill and 5 years. Girardi 5.5 mill for 6 years. IMO, Dion should be paid in the 5.5-6 range. So while he is overpaid, it is by 1 million.

If Dion is traded, getting them to retain 1 million makes a big difference IMO.

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06-14-2014, 02:52 PM
  #110
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Eklund just looking for a boost in traffic to his site. He knows whenever Tor and Edm are involved a flood of traffic hits his site.

Unlikely chance of this happening. The people closest to the Oilers are saying they are after Coburn.

Phaneuf also doesn't fit the criteria MacT has laid out. He values character very highly. I have no proof that Phaneuf has character issues but their have been whispers of lockeroom issues in Calgary and TO. IMO MacT won't risk it.....he just talked about the great character of Hall, Nuge, Eberle and Schultz in Spectors article on Sportsnet.

Just can't see this happening at all

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Old
06-14-2014, 02:54 PM
  #111
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Once again guys, Eklund is allowed as a springboard for discussion here. If that bothers you terribly, move on to the next thread.

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06-14-2014, 03:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Kadri + Phaneuf + 8th overall

for

3rd overall + Yakupov/Eberle + Schultz
I'd send that package to Edmonton for Eberle and the 3rd alone

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06-14-2014, 03:12 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Also I would like to add for serious thought:

Even if Phaneuf is overpaid slightly (which I don't think he is) does that really matter to Edmonton?

EDM has not be able to lure any UFAs in recent memory prior to Pronger. Their only chance to get one is to massively overpay so with that regards Phaneuf is probably a good use of their money. I can guarantee you he is significantly better than Niskanen @ 6M
Good point.

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06-14-2014, 03:14 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Iridescent View Post
Edmonton isn't trading the 3rd overall. They are going to take one of Draisaitl/Ekblad.

So what then would they have to offer for Phaneuf? Would Eberle get it done? Yakupov? What else could they possibly trade that fits Toronto's needs? Toronto needs a center, badly. And a defensemen. Edmonton doesn't really have either they can move.

Doesn't make sense to me, but with the Clarkson signing, who knows what is going through Nonis' head.
If the Oilers really want to make a huge statement RNH for Dion+8th

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
I'd send that package to Edmonton for Eberle and the 3rd alone
I wouldn't. Can't afford to loose Kadri unless a center is coming back
maybe a HUGE DEAL involving RNH+Nurse for Dion+Kadri+8th

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
If the Oilers really want to make a huge statement RNH for Dion+8th



I wouldn't. Can't afford to loose Kadri unless a center is coming back
maybe a HUGE DEAL involving RNH+Nurse for Dion+Kadri+8th
I could see a 2nd trade after to address the void Kadri would leave.

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06-14-2014, 03:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
I could see a 2nd trade after to address the void Kadri would leave.
It just occurred to me that the Oilers were after Clarkson and even offered more $. I could really see them going after Dion+Clarkson

Imagine a mega mega deal Dion+Kadri+Clarkson+8th+Finn for RNH+Eberle+Nurse.

The Oilers instantly add a ton of grit and have Kadri to replace some of the scoring lost. They also get a D prospect in Finn who many see as a sure bet NHLer.

The Leafs get that #1 center they need and add clutch in Eberle but are taking a big chance on Nurse being NHL ready.

IMO this trade would help the oilers more.

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06-14-2014, 03:26 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
It just occurred to me that the Oilers were after Clarkson and even offered more $. I could really see them going after Dion+Clarkson

Imagine a mega mega deal Dion+Kadri+Clarkson+8th+Finn for RNH+Eberle+Nurse.

The Oilers instantly add a ton of grit and have Kadri to replace some of the scoring lost. They also get a D prospect in Finn who many see as a sure bet NHLer.

The Leafs get that #1 center they need and add clutch in Eberle but are taking a big chance on Nurse being NHL ready.

IMO this trade would help the oilers more.

No way in hell is RNH being moved, or would I do that deal. Keep Clarkson and that garbage contract he has. Thank god, he didn't choose Edmonton despite Mac T overpaying.

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
While I agree with all of this, he is getting paid like an elite #1. Therein lies the problem. Only 10 D make 6 million. And he makes 7 million which is tied for 5th in the league.

And he should play some of the hardest minutes if he us paid like one and a #1. If not him, then who else on your team should?


You can't fairly compare Phaneuf's cap hit to:
  • Players signed before the new CBA
  • RFA signings
  • Players signed longterm with bogus years at the end

And you also have to consider % of total salary cap those salaries were at the times of their signings.

---

If you take off Weber's last four years where he makes $6 million total, his cap hit becomes $10.4 million. If you limit it to seven years (the max length you can sign for an offer sheet), his cap hit becomes $12.3 million.

If you take off Suter's last three years where he makes $4 million total, his cap hit becomes $9.4 million. If you limit it to seven years (the max length you can sign for an UFA), his cap hit becomes $10.2 million.

Chara signed his contract with a cap hit of 6.916 when the cap was 64.3. His cap hit was 10.75% of the cap.

Campbell signed his contract with a cap hit of 7.143 when the cap was 56.7. His cap hit was 12.6% of the cap.

Phaneuf signed his contract with a cap hit of 7 when the cap is expected to be at least 69. His cap hit is 10.1% of the cap.

Doughty, Karlsson, Pietrangelo all signed as RFAs. Of course they're not going to get massive deals.

---

See how things make sense when you apply logic?

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:31 PM
  #119
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...it's Deadmonton's funeral...
LMAO, Deadmonton

Also if they trade their 1st for Phaneuf I will walk away laughing.

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:31 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyt911 View Post
It just occurred to me that the Oilers were after Clarkson and even offered more $. I could really see them going after Dion+Clarkson

Imagine a mega mega deal Dion+Kadri+Clarkson+8th+Finn for RNH+Eberle+Nurse.

The Oilers instantly add a ton of grit and have Kadri to replace some of the scoring lost. They also get a D prospect in Finn who many see as a sure bet NHLer.

The Leafs get that #1 center they need and add clutch in Eberle but are taking a big chance on Nurse being NHL ready.

IMO this trade would help the oilers more.
NO, STAHHHHP.

No interest in trading ANY of the 3 you mentioned! Why would we trade our #1 center and a guy with #1 D potential and our young, locked in long term top line RW for that pile?? We have lots of high potential young D, don't need Finn.

Here's what you've proposed, broken down

RNH for Phaneuf+8th (NO)
Nurse for Kadri (NO)
Clarkson and Finn for Eberle (MOTHER OF GOD MY EYES, NO)

Just stop. No to any and all of this!

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:35 PM
  #121
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Get real with some of these proposals for Yak. We're not trading #3 + Yak for Phaneuf. I wouldn't trade either.

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06-14-2014, 03:39 PM
  #122
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Get real with some of these proposals for Yak. We're not trading #3 + Yak for Phaneuf. I wouldn't trade either.
I don't most Leaf fans think that 3rd overall + Yakupov is reasonable. Relax.

I think the 3rd overall could be in play and that's entirely plausible to me if EDM wants to make a splash.

Again, this isn't a trade proposal thread. We're all just speculating what EDM would give up, given they want Phaneuf and are making a big push for him.

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06-14-2014, 03:40 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Toronto
Sam Gagner
3rd Overall

Edmonton
Dion Phaneuf
Nazem Kadri
This is as fair a deal that I've seen. I'd be inclined to do this. Rather keep Nazem though and give up the 8th but if that's what it takes, then sure.

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:44 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
I'd send that package to Edmonton for Eberle and the 3rd alone
that has to be the package if edmonton really wants to deal
u cant trade a a no 1 pairing defenseman that is signed ,for scraps ,,,,i think the bidding war will be kinda fun ,,,,,somebody will pony up ,the guy is fit ,eats up minutes and is a warrior ,and in the end i dont know the leafs deal him ,kessel could go just as easy

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Old
06-14-2014, 03:46 PM
  #125
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Phaneuf + 8th is closer in value.
What kind of world do you live in where you’d think that would be remotely fair for Toronto?

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