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06-14-2014, 11:24 PM
  #1
SensNation613
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Would you move Staal for Spezza?

Okay so a lot of Sens fans are talking about moving Jason Spezza. Marc Staal has come up numerous times in discussions so I'm wondering, would the Rangers fanbase move him out in exchange for Jason? I wasn't going to post anything but I noticed that Stralman won the poll vs Staal so I thought it would be a good time to post this.

Would this deal be enough?
Jason Spezza
Patrick Wiercioch
Rights to Hemsky (?)

for

Marc Staal
Derick Brassard
Rights to Benoit Pouliot (?)


Okay so why do you guys do it?

Spezza gives New York a legit first line center and has shown chemistry with Rick Nash during international play. If the Rangers decide to buy out Richards, this softens the blow. Patrick Wiercioch is a legit PP specialist who has one of the best first passes I've ever seen, and he could help the Rangers playing on the bottom pair.

Why do we do it?
Well, we get a legit top pair defenseman to play with Karlsson, and we get a player who can step onto our 2nd/3rd line while Zibanejad develops during that time. I added the rights to Hemsky and Pouliot because it's a pretty known fact that Hemsky won't be back in Ottawa and I don't know what's going down between Benoit and the Rangers.

What would you tweak?
Is it a good basis for a trade?

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06-14-2014, 11:29 PM
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06-14-2014, 11:37 PM
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Interesting, but I wouldn't do it. More turnover than the Rangers need, given the rest of the roster upheaval we may have. Also, don't underestimate the fact that Brass appears to be part of the solution here - in moving him and Pouliot you're dumping 2/3 of our most consistent line this past year.

I would certainly move Staal, but I'd want a younger center back.

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06-14-2014, 11:39 PM
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I'd move Staal for Spezza, but not with Brassard.

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06-14-2014, 11:40 PM
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Mikos87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensNation613 View Post
Okay so a lot of Sens fans are talking about moving Jason Spezza. Marc Staal has come up numerous times in discussions so I'm wondering, would the Rangers fanbase move him out in exchange for Jason? I wasn't going to post anything but I noticed that Stralman won the poll vs Staal so I thought it would be a good time to post this.

Would this deal be enough?
Jason Spezza
Patrick Wiercioch
Rights to Hemsky (?)

for

Marc Staal
Derick Brassard
Rights to Benoit Pouliot (?)


Okay so why do you guys do it?

Spezza gives New York a legit first line center and has shown chemistry with Rick Nash during international play. If the Rangers decide to buy out Richards, this softens the blow. Patrick Wiercioch is a legit PP specialist who has one of the best first passes I've ever seen, and he could help the Rangers playing on the bottom pair.

Why do we do it?
Well, we get a legit top pair defenseman to play with Karlsson, and we get a player who can step onto our 2nd/3rd line while Zibanejad develops during that time. I added the rights to Hemsky and Pouliot because it's a pretty known fact that Hemsky won't be back in Ottawa and I don't know what's going down between Benoit and the Rangers.

What would you tweak?
Is it a good basis for a trade?
Good basis, but can't move Staal for something like that. Brassard, JMoore, Dorsett/Kristo/pick for Spezza and one of Wiercoch/Greening/Smith/Methot whatever works.

I know OTT is a money in-money out team, and I'll respect that. Brassard is a hometown boy in OTT, and can be a Turris lite for you guys. JMoore is a stretch 4 defenseman. Very good skater, would be 2nd best next to Karlsson, Dorsett is a mini version of Neil, Kristo is a Setoguchi type player.

I haven't followed OTT much since the Havlat, Hossa, Alfie on the RW days so I'd appreciate your input.

What's the story on Wiercoch, Greening, Smith and Methot? Overpaid?

How is Spezza's back?

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06-14-2014, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Good basis, but can't move Staal for something like that. Brassard, JMoore, Dorsett/Kristo/pick for Spezza and one of Wiercoch/Greening/Smith/Methot whatever works.

I know OTT is a money in-money out team, and I'll respect that. Brassard is a hometown boy in OTT, and can be a Turris lite for you guys. JMoore is a stretch 4 defenseman. Very good skater, would be 2nd best next to Karlsson, Dorsett is a mini version of Neil, Kristo is a Setoguchi type player.

I haven't followed OTT much since the Havlat, Hossa, Alfie on the RW days so I'd appreciate your input.

What's the story on Wiercoch, Greening, Smith and Methot? Overpaid?

How is Spezza's back?
Can't really see Ottawa accepting that, especially since he's going to the East. I mean I'd be fine if kept Spezza in the conference if we got a legit piece back (Like a top line FWD or top pair defender) but not for a package deal.

Wiercioch can probably be a good 40 point guy if played on the left side and if given premium PP minutes. Greening is a physical bottom 6 guy but he's pretty overpaid for his services (Worth around 1.8M and he makes close to 2.7M). Smith is a solid 3rd liner who will be part of the core IMO, sucks that he's stuck playing with Neil and Greening. Methot plays as our top pair defenseman so he wouldn't move, I personally think he's more effective with a smaller work load (2nd Pair with around 20-22 minutes a game).

Spezza was pretty horrible for the first half of the season but he seemed to come back to life after the Olympic break. He also makes 4M in real dollars next season

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06-14-2014, 11:51 PM
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Wiercioch is a really fascinating advanced stats guy. If the lesson we learn from the Kings series is "build an elite possession team," a huge 23-year-old defenseman with those weirdo Corsi numbers would be a great add on top of a Stralman extension.

Personally, I would make that trade. I think JT Miller is probably an NHL player and we can feel safe with him on a third line behind a one-two punch of Spezza and Stepan. Don't the Sens want to move Spezza out west, though?

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06-14-2014, 11:52 PM
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id do staal straight up for spezza every day of the week.

spezza is very much what we need.

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06-14-2014, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SensNation613 View Post
Can't really see Ottawa accepting that, especially since he's going to the East. I mean I'd be fine if kept Spezza in the conference if we got a legit piece back (Like a top line FWD or top pair defender) but not for a package deal.

Wiercioch can probably be a good 40 point guy if played on the left side and if given premium PP minutes. Greening is a physical bottom 6 guy but he's pretty overpaid for his services (Worth around 1.8M and he makes close to 2.7M). Smith is a solid 3rd liner who will be part of the core IMO, sucks that he's stuck playing with Neil and Greening. Methot plays as our top pair defenseman so he wouldn't move, I personally think he's more effective with a smaller work load (2nd Pair with around 20-22 minutes a game).

Spezza was pretty horrible for the first half of the season but he seemed to come back to life after the Olympic break. He also makes 4M in real dollars next season
But Spezza wants out... I don't think Murray can expect more than an NHL piece plus a premium. If he gets a 2nd line center in Brassard, a 18 minute a night guy in JMoore, and and a combination of speed/skill/grit on the bottom six for a guy that doesn't want to be there, then its a win. I'd do 3 NHL pieces for Spezza alone and would be willing to take a contract on for cap reasons.

Money isn't an issue for the Rangers, the $7M cap hit is more concerning than the acual dollars paid. What about Stone?

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06-14-2014, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Classless View Post
Wiercioch is a really fascinating advanced stats guy. If the lesson we learn from the Kings series is "build an elite possession team," a huge 23-year-old defenseman with those weirdo Corsi numbers would be a great add on top of a Stralman extension.

Personally, I would make that trade. I think JT Miller is probably an NHL player and we can feel safe with him on a third line behind a one-two punch of Spezza and Stepan. Don't the Sens want to move Spezza out west, though?
Allegedly. Don't see why dealing him out west is all that much different from dealing him in the east, as long as it isn't an inter divisional trade.

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06-14-2014, 11:58 PM
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I don't want him. He lacks speed and is at the age when guys start breaking down. If I'm packaging Staal for a center, it's ROR.

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06-15-2014, 12:00 AM
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I don't want him. He lacks speed and is at the age when guys start breaking down. If I'm packaging Staal for a center, it's ROR.
Exactly. No more trying to fill our biggest organizational need with guys on the cusp of their downturn, please.

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06-15-2014, 12:03 AM
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Staal for Spezza yes, Brass and Pouliot for Wiercioch and Hemsky no.

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06-15-2014, 12:13 AM
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I don't really see why the rights to Pouliot needs to be part of the trade. It's not like that's the deal-breaker, but I don't get it. I also don't want to part with Brassard.

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06-15-2014, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
But Spezza wants out... I don't think Murray can expect more than an NHL piece plus a premium. If he gets a 2nd line center in Brassard, a 18 minute a night guy in JMoore, and and a combination of speed/skill/grit on the bottom six for a guy that doesn't want to be there, then its a win. I'd do 3 NHL pieces for Spezza alone and would be willing to take a contract on for cap reasons.

Money isn't an issue for the Rangers, the $7M cap hit is more concerning than the acual dollars paid. What about Stone?
Apparently he doesn't really want out, he just wants a commitment from ownership to actually spend money on building a better team and if not then he would accept a trade out. He hasn't really said, trade me now. The problem is, Ottawa would much rather send him to Anaheim for a package involving Etem/Silvy + Vatanen + 10th (Would probably involve something coming back with Spezz) than the package you're suggesting. Stone's probably going to play on our top 6 next season, Mac really liked what he saw from the kid and the fanbase is so excited about this guy.

How much do you guys value Brassard? I really want this guy here in Ottawa

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06-15-2014, 12:13 AM
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Nononono ono.

That offer is horrible.

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06-15-2014, 12:14 AM
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I don't really see why the rights to Pouliot needs to be part of the trade.
He doesn't, that's why I added a question mark. I guess it was overkill though.

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06-15-2014, 12:15 AM
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Exactly. No more trying to fill our biggest organizational need with guys on the cusp of their downturn, please.
its hard to say if he is on the cusp or not.

he had what, 66 points last year in what was universally considered a terrible year for him? No NY Ranger Regular had that many points last year.

NONE.

Last five years here are his stats...

282GP 103G 166A 269P

.954PPG

His biggest issue is his health..Hes missed a LOT of games.

He's also more of a play maker than a scorer....do we need another one of those?

Does he help Nash? Im not sure. But he's a righty, hes incredibly skilled, and he doesnt have a long term contract.

Lots to like.

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06-15-2014, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SensNation613 View Post
Apparently he doesn't really want out, he just wants a commitment from ownership to actually spend money on building a better team and if not then he would accept a trade out. He hasn't really said, trade me now. The problem is, Ottawa would much rather send him to Anaheim for a package involving Etem/Silvy + Vatanen + 10th (Would probably involve something coming back with Spezz) than the package you're suggesting. Stone's probably going to play on our top 6 next season, Mac really liked what he saw from the kid and the fanbase is so excited about this guy.

How much do you guys value Brassard? I really want this guy here in Ottawa
I'd say opinions on Brassard are a bit mixed, but most here definitely like him, and he has a penchant for scoring big goals/making big plays in the postseason. He also has great chemistry with Zucc and is almost assuredly a huge part of the locker room.

He is what he is at this point - a 40-50 pt middle six center. He's developed a bit more of a defensive game, although that still isn't a strong point of his. He's a valuable guy to have either way.

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06-15-2014, 12:24 AM
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I'd do Staal and JT Miller for Spezza, Wiercioch, Hoffman and the rights to Nikita Filatov (hell, why not?)

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06-15-2014, 12:35 AM
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I'd do Staal and JT Miller for Spezza, Wiercioch, Hoffman and the rights to Nikita Filatov (hell, why not?)
No Hoffman and No Kristo and I'd be happy with that deal.

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06-15-2014, 12:37 AM
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Nothing against Spezza because the value in a vacuum is there, but I think (and hope) that we're finally done trying to acquire our #1 center in the form of a player on the other side of 30.

If we're going for a center for Staal, I'm looking at ROR or Scheifele.

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06-15-2014, 12:51 AM
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Nothing against Spezza because the value in a vacuum is there, but I think (and hope) that we're finally done trying to acquire our #1 center in the form of a player on the other side of 30.

If we're going for a center for Staal, I'm looking at ROR or Scheifele.
ive just never been super impressed with ROR...not sure whats so great there...seems like a player thats a function of the guys around him rather than his own play.

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06-15-2014, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SensNation613 View Post
Apparently he doesn't really want out, he just wants a commitment from ownership to actually spend money on building a better team and if not then he would accept a trade out. He hasn't really said, trade me now. The problem is, Ottawa would much rather send him to Anaheim for a package involving Etem/Silvy + Vatanen + 10th (Would probably involve something coming back with Spezz) than the package you're suggesting. Stone's probably going to play on our top 6 next season, Mac really liked what he saw from the kid and the fanbase is so excited about this guy.

How much do you guys value Brassard? I really want this guy here in Ottawa
He's a popular player here, very skilled player but not a top line center that people once hoped he would be. Very likable, 40-50 points, and can contribute on the powerplay. Similar to Antoine Vermette except he's more offensively skilled and less defensively relied on. Has a great shot, and can really handle the puck.

Anaheim has the pieces to make a big move, their farm is stacked, but those pieces are more futures than established NHL players that just had a run to the finals. Can't say I know the financial status of OTT's goals or if they are a rebuilding team since not any of those pieces have really established roles in the NHL from ANA.

Spezza fills a few needs for the Rangers, but injury is a concern. Just read that Murray confirmed the request: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=454610 So perhaps he is firm in wanting out.

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06-15-2014, 01:16 AM
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Murray has loved M. Staal since his draft year. I don't know where else the Rangers can find a #1 center. And I don't do the deal for Nash, who I 'd love to trade, but rather put Spezza with MSL. Cap hit is$3 M more than Staal, so we might need to do something about that.

I think moving Staal might work since we should look to add a real PP QB on the blueline this offseason and moving Staal opens up the spot for that Dman.

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