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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread

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Old
06-16-2014, 11:44 PM
  #126
Lundsanity30
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Originally Posted by bto131 View Post
so would i but i think we wont unless its a straight up or some sort of staal + a late pick and it creates a big gap in talent between Mcdonagh and J Moore unless ur expecting a big growth from him or allen this summer. but u can sign a stop gap because...

could always put Moore with Girardi instead of Stralman and Stralman with Mcdonagh..

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06-16-2014, 11:46 PM
  #127
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I agree that trading Stepan for a center isn't really productive.. If we're gonna trade a center (in a deal for another one).. it would be Brassard IMO (and he's really grown on me), because Stepan is more of a #2C than Brassard is no question. Stepan as the 2c on this team would be really valuable.
Trading Stepan for a (better) center isn't counter-productive, nor is it a lateral move. It's called upgrading.

Ryan O'Reilly is a better all around player, a stronger, grittier, playoff style player who is also much better defensively, much better at faceoffs, has a much better shot, scores more goals and is actually a year younger than Stepan so it's not like we're trading Stepan for an aging Joe Thornton on his last legs. ROR is just scratching the surface of his prime and finding out just how good he can be.

It would be a great move to essentially swap Stepan for O'Reilly. The only reason there's a chance of us landing him is because of the (odd) contract situation that is now set to go to a second arbitration hearing in 3 years. Without this situation, there's no way COL would consider trading O'Reilly. But because of this situation, as well as their attempt to re-sign Paul Stastny to a long-term contract, we might just be able to snatch a real young star and possibly only have to give up Stepan+ to do so.

If COL said they preferred Brassard to Stepan, I'd certainly make that deal too, but I actually think they'd prefer Stepan who's almost the same age as O'Reilly and has put up similar production in his first few years. Brassard is a few years older, and has had more time in the NHL to develop and has sort of plateaued at ~45 points. They'd be hoping Stepan is still young enough and early enough in his career to continue improving his overall game as well as his production (which he likely will).

Trust me guys. Ryan O'Reilly is a stud. And despite the hyperbolic reputation he gets for holding out, he's got leadership and captain material written all over him. His consistent work ethic, passion for the game, and unrelenting effort are top-notch. As you can tell, I really want to see this kid in Rangers blue.

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06-16-2014, 11:49 PM
  #128
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Colorado has a glutton of forwards, and even more centers.. I dont even think they would want one in return for RoR.. He's already playing out of position because of their center depth.. They need defense.

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06-16-2014, 11:50 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Traded Staal (with prospects or picks, or straight up) in a deal for RoR.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.250m) / Ryan O'Reilly ($6.500m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Mats Zuccarello ($4.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derick Brassard ($3.750m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m)
Brian Boyle ($2.500m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.500m) / Anton Stralman ($4.000m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m) /
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,490,000; BONUSES: $1,886,667
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $610,000

What do you think.. low on any contracts?
I love it.

However, I'd rather trade Stepan for O'Reilly (Stepan and Staal have similar cap-hits so that doesn't change much from your cap scenario) and then trade Nash (7.8) for Spezza (7.0). We'd have about 1.6 mil in cap-space. (I'd actually offer Stepan + Klein for O'Reilly and slot McIlrath/Allen/Skjei or a cheap veteran UFA into that third pair, which would save us a little more as well.)

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06-16-2014, 11:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
I love it.

However, I'd rather trade Stepan for O'Reilly (Stepan and Staal have similar cap-hits so that doesn't change much from your cap scenario) and then trade Nash (7.8) for Spezza (7.0). We'd have about 1.6 mil in cap-space. (I'd actually offer Stepan + Klein for O'Reilly and slot McIlrath/Allen/Skjei or a cheap veteran UFA into that third pair, which would save us a little more as well.)
Again, the cap is the problem. It's not going to be that high. Klein also made Moore look better, though I will say that I think Moore has improved somewhat.

Trading Stepan for ROR totally ignores COL's needs. They'd have Stepan, Duchene, and Landeskog as being true centers, never mind if Stastny is resigned. Their real aim is for improved D. If anything, they'd want a top-4 D and a winger to play with Duchene.

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06-16-2014, 11:54 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
I love it.

However, I'd rather trade Stepan for O'Reilly (Stepan and Staal have similar cap-hits so that doesn't change much from your cap scenario) and then trade Nash (7.8) for Spezza (7.0). We'd have about 1.6 mil in cap-space. (I'd actually offer Stepan + Klein for O'Reilly and slot McIlrath/Allen/Skjei or a cheap veteran UFA into that third pair, which would save us a little more as well.)
I think ROR and Spezza would be overkill.. I also think Nash is going to be bounce back, especially if he were to play with a C like RoR

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06-16-2014, 11:54 PM
  #132
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WTF is with this stepan ******? We're not trading him or Nash give it up

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06-16-2014, 11:55 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Colorado has a glutton of forwards, and even more centers.. I dont even think they would want one in return for RoR.. He's already playing out of position because of their center depth.. They need defense.
I hear ya. That's not our problem though. It's theirs. We're "helping them" get out of this ROR situation without getting burned horribly (which is a legitimate risk no matter how likely or unlikely it may be).

I offered Stepan + Klein.

Stepan essentially replaces O'Reilly's production. Stepan has also very briefly played on the wing at times earlier in his career. That's their problem to worry about, but having too many centers is always a good problem to have.

Klein played top-4 minutes in the Western Conference and never looked out of place, despite not really impressing in NY. He's not flashy by any means, but he's good enough in all areas to play 18-22 minutes a night and be successful.

If COL wants a more high-profile defenseman, or needs to rearrange their roster some more, that's on them. I still think getting a replacement center (almost the same age) with similar production on a much cheaper contract PLUS Kevin Klein would be a hard deal for Colorado to reject if they don't make some quick progress in the negotiations with ROR.

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06-16-2014, 11:55 PM
  #134
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I bet we trade for Thornton..that's just the rangers way

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06-16-2014, 11:58 PM
  #135
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I bet we trade for Thornton..that's just the rangers way
probably.

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06-16-2014, 11:59 PM
  #136
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I bet we trade for Thornton..that's just the rangers way
Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if he came cheap.

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06-17-2014, 12:00 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by OnlyRevolutions View Post
Again, the cap is the problem. It's not going to be that high. Klein also made Moore look better, though I will say that I think Moore has improved somewhat.

Trading Stepan for ROR totally ignores COL's needs. They'd have Stepan, Duchene, and Landeskog as being true centers, never mind if Stastny is resigned. Their real aim is for improved D. If anything, they'd want a top-4 D and a winger to play with Duchene.
a) You don't know any more than any of us what the cap is going to be. It's reported to likely be between 69.5 and 71 million. That's all any of us know right now.

b) It's not solely about what COL wants. It's not solely about THEIR needs. They are NOT in the driver's seat in this situation. Ryan O'Reilly wants to get paid and they don't want to pay him. Now they have a player who already signed an offer sheet in the past, who is eligible to sign another one come July 1st which could leave Colorado with two 1st's, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick which is awesome, but it doesn't really help their immediate efforts towards building a better team than last season. They're not in full rebuild mode anymore. They want to keep improving and winning. The picks are the last return they'd want for O'Reilly. On the other hand, getting a cheaper replacement (Stepan) and a versatile top-4 defenseman on a cheap as dirt contract (Klein) is a pretty damn good return on what is a potential disaster of a situation.

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06-17-2014, 12:02 AM
  #138
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in all these trades for ROR where we give up Stepan get us no where... we still dont have the DEPTH of a cup winner which would be the point in getting ROR with him and Stepan as the 1 and 2 we could be a force.

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06-17-2014, 12:05 AM
  #139
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I bet we trade for Thornton..that's just the rangers way
Haha, I've considered the same thing, but I just don't see the two teams finding the right deal.

We're certainly not giving up any of our core for an aging Joe Thornton set to hit UFA at the end of the season. And the players we would make available are simply not the type of players they'd want to rebuild/re-tool with or that they'd expect to garner from trading Jumbo Joe.

Staal? Not a chance.
Moore? Not enough.

Kreider? Not a chance
Hagelin? Not worth it. His speed is too dynamic and they'd likely expect a lot more.
Stepan? Short-sighted move that we'd lose big-time in one year's time.
Zuccarello? Not a chance.
St. Louis? What's the point? Lateral move. We get an old elite center but lose an old elite winger to play with him.
Nash? He's the guy we'd want Thornton to play with and he's also the guy San Jose would want if they were KEEPING Thornton.

It just doesn't work out IMO. (And I'm glad it doesn't. It would likely just be another headache.)

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06-17-2014, 12:06 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by bto131 View Post
in all these trades for ROR where we give up Stepan get us no where... we still dont have the DEPTH of a cup winner which would be the point in getting ROR with him and Stepan as the 1 and 2 we could be a force.
This.

ROR
Stepan
Brassard
Moore/Boyle

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06-17-2014, 12:09 AM
  #141
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in all these trades for ROR where we give up Stepan get us no where... we still dont have the DEPTH of a cup winner which would be the point in getting ROR with him and Stepan as the 1 and 2 we could be a force.
Stepan and Klein for ROR

Nash for Spezza


O'Reilly Spezza St. Louis
Kreider Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin 3C Pouliot
Carcillo Moore Dorsett

or

Kreider Spezza St. Louis
Pouliot ROR Zuccarello
Hagelin Brassard _______
Carcillo Moore Dorsett


That's not enough depth?


Even if you don't do the second trade for Spezza and we keep Nash:

Kreider O'Reilly Nash
Pouliot Brassard Zuccarello
Hagelin 3C St. Louis
Carcillo Moore Dorsett

Either way, that's fantastic offensive depth.

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06-17-2014, 12:15 AM
  #142
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Seriously, we are not trading Stepan for a center and the Avs are not trading ROR for a center. We'll be in the exact same spot because neither Stepan nor ROR are elite 1Cs. Having both of them makes up for it somewhat. ROR alone is not enough.

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06-17-2014, 12:16 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by OnlyRevolutions View Post
Again, the cap is the problem. It's not going to be that high. Klein also made Moore look better, though I will say that I think Moore has improved somewhat.

Trading Stepan for ROR totally ignores COL's needs. They'd have Stepan, Duchene, and Landeskog as being true centers, never mind if Stastny is resigned. Their real aim is for improved D. If anything, they'd want a top-4 D and a winger to play with Duchene.
Are Avs fans even interested in Staal for ROR? Anyway, if we're trading for a center, it should be an addition to Stepan/Brassard/D. Moore, not a center swap.

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06-17-2014, 12:17 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
This.

ROR
Stepan
Brassard
Moore/Boyle
First of all, swapping Stepan for ROR is a clear-cut upgrade.

Secondly, you instead want to deplete our defensive depth to acquire ROR?

I assume you're trading Marc Staal for him then?

Then the same argument you're trying to make for offensive depth can be made for the blue line.

McDonagh-Girardi
Moore-Stralman (IF he re-signs here)
_____-Klein


The thing is, we don't lose any depth by replacing Stepan for O'Reilly. O'Reilly literally replaces Stepan, both in his role and in his spot in the lineup. There's no depth lost. It's simply upgrading the position by taking advantage of Colorado being in a ****** situation.

If you trade Staal for him, yes our center depth improves because everyone gets bumped down a line, but you have no replacement for Staal and everyone on the back-end gets bumped UP a pairing and playing above their abilities.

This is all not to mention that Stralman isn't re-signed yet, as well as the fact that Stralman's solid play was at least in-part due to the stable and solid defensive play of Marc Staal next to him. Stralman playing next to John Moore might not look like the same Anton Stralman, and John Moore's warts may show more as well. It's a dangerous game to be messing with a top-4 that's been so successful and is so familiar with each other. McDonagh and Girardi. Staal and Stralman.

That top-4 should not be messed with, imo. Trading Klein along with Stepan to acquire ROR who replaces and upgrades Stepan improves the team without upsetting that crucial top-4 on the back end. Klein is easily replaced. Staal and the minutes and situations he plays in is not.

Just think about this:

If McDonagh gets hurt for a couple months, do you want John Moore to be your first-pairing defenseman in his absence? Or do you want Marc Staal (who used to play in that exact #1 LD spot) playing there? That's what depth is all about.

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06-17-2014, 12:18 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
This.

ROR
Stepan
Brassard
Moore/Boyle
Lundsanity30 ur my new best friend on this forum.. everyone doesnt seem to understand that center depth u have above it the goal... most teams never get anywhere near that depth and we have a chance by trading staal. but everyone else just wants to trade half the team for spezza or Thornton or both... *facepalm*

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06-17-2014, 12:20 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by SeventySeven View Post
First of all, swapping Stepan for ROR is a clear-cut upgrade.

Secondly, you instead want to deplete our defensive depth to acquire ROR?

I assume you're trading Marc Staal for him then?

Then the same argument you're trying to make for offensive depth can be made for the blue line.

McDonagh-Girardi
Moore-Stralman (IF he re-signs here)
_____-Klein


The thing is, we don't lose any depth by replacing Stepan for O'Reilly. O'Reilly literally replaces Stepan, both in his role and in his spot in the lineup. There's no depth lost. It's simply upgrading the position by taking advantage of Colorado being in a ****** situation.

If you trade Staal for him, yes our center depth improves because everyone gets bumped down a line, but you have no replacement for Staal and everyone on the back-end gets bumped UP a pairing and playing above their abilities.

This is all not to mention that Stralman isn't re-signed yet, as well as the fact that Stralman's solid play was at least in-part due to the stable and solid defensive play of Marc Staal next to him. Stralman playing next to John Moore might not look like the same Anton Stralman, and John Moore's warts may show more as well. It's a dangerous game to be messing with a top-4 that's been so successful and is so familiar with each other. McDonagh and Girardi. Staal and Stralman.

That top-4 should not be messed with, imo. Trading Klein along with Stepan to acquire ROR who replaces and upgrades Stepan improves the team without upsetting that crucial top-4 on the back end. Klein is easily replaced. Staal and the minutes and situations he plays in is not.

Just think about this:

If McDonagh gets hurt for a couple months, do you want John Moore to be your first-pairing defenseman in his absence? Or do you want Marc Staal (who used to play in that exact #1 LD spot) playing there? That's what depth is all about.
if you trade staal u have to change us the dpairs
Mcdonagh-stralman
allen-Girardi
Moore-Klein

i would have moore ahead of allen but girardi and moore were turnover machines on the pp together so i opted for allen

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06-17-2014, 12:25 AM
  #147
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Seriously, we are not trading Stepan for a center and the Avs are not trading ROR for a center. We'll be in the exact same spot because neither Stepan nor ROR are elite 1Cs. Having both of them makes up for it somewhat. ROR alone is not enough.
ROR is an elite 1C.

He may not be an elite offensive 1C the way that Crosby or Malkin are.

But he is certainly one of the top-10 two-way centers in the league, and I'd make the argument that he's one of the top-3 two-way centers under 25 in the league right now.

He has led the league in takeaways for two seasons now.

He had ONE minor penalty last season (for playing with a broken stick).

(That means he uses his stick to bother/lift-the-stick of other players so much that he is the league-leader in takeaways, and yet he didn't get called for a single hooking or slashing penalty all season)

Do you realize how absurd that is? That's Datsyuk territory defensively and takeaway-wise.

All the while, he scored 28 goals last season and put up 64 points.

And he just recently turned 23 earlier this year.

He's also much more physically involved than Stepan, a better skater, and while their playmaking abilities are comparable, ROR has a much better shot and clearly uses it more, scoring almost 30 goals in 80 games this season.

Upgrading Stepan to Ryan O'Reilly would be a massively positive move for the NY Rangers. The way ROR plays is exactly the type of play we desperately needed during the LA series. Stepan is limited by his skating and has become rather one-dimensional. Teams know he isn't going to shoot. He's looking to pass every time. He gets the puck on the PP and he doesn't even look towards the net. He's pass-pass-pass. O'Reilly is a much more dynamic player. We'd be incredibly fortunate to acquire this kid.

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06-17-2014, 12:27 AM
  #148
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ROR is basically a freaking clone of Bergeron who everyone oozes about.

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06-17-2014, 12:27 AM
  #149
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Stepan is a two-way center as well. It might be an upgrade at that position, but I don't think the team would really be any better. The point is to add to our center core. Replace Richards. Not ship Richards AND another center out. We'd go into next season with our top 2 centers gone, ROR would be #1C, Brassard would have more responsibility as the #2C...then who plays? #3C

We DO lose center depth by not replacing Richards. I'd rather have ROR / Stepan / Brassard / D.Moore down the middle and

ROR
Stepan
Brassard
D.Moore

McDonagh-Girardi
_____-Stralman
J.Moore-Klein

---


ROR
Brassard
______
D.Moore

McDonagh-Girardi
Staal-Stralman
J.Moore-Klein

The first scenario looks undoubtedly better IMO. Put Klein next to Stralman (yes I know they're both RH, yada yada), give Allen/Diaz a look. Sather may have to choose between Staal and Stralman anyway, use him to get ROR/Spezza.

Idk, personally, I could not resist a one-two punch of Ryan O-Reilly / Derek Stepan.


Last edited by aufheben: 06-17-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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06-17-2014, 12:28 AM
  #150
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ROR is basically a freaking clone of Bergeron who everyone oozes about.
Bergerons a much better skater imho.

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