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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

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Old
06-19-2014, 11:57 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
Stralman had a good season and playoffs. Girardi had a decent season and okay playoffs. I'm not sure a broken pinky is a great excuse.
Have you ever tried to hold a hockey stick with a broken pinky? It's very painful and certainly inhibits your ability to grip the stick properly.

Quote:
Agree to disagree on the second point. Stralman - McDonagh would be redundant. Why did MSL play on the second line, or Zucc on the third over Nash? Both were playing better than he was. Why don't you fill an entire line with only guys who shoot or only guys who pass?
Because most players don't "only" shoot or "only" pass. And Zuccarello and MSL both logged close to the same amount of minutes at ES during the playoffs that Nash did. The team rolled their top-nine pretty evenly down the stretch as well.

I just don't buy the "we kept a superior defender on the 2nd pairing because we needed to spread around the puck movement" argument.

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06-19-2014, 12:00 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
So if something like Staal for ROR could go down, 1 for 1, and then a follow up trade for Gardiner happens....

And you're looking at:

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-ROR-MSL
Miller-Brassard-Zucc
Boyle-Moore-Carcillo

McD-G
Gardiner-Stralman
Allen-Klein

You wouldn't be happy?
Depends on what goes in a deal for Gardiner I suppose. I'd also be concerned that we're still getting next to nothing in terms of offense from the right-side of our D. I can't imagine this team wants to go into next season with one RH PP shot on the first unit.

I also happen to think that lineup is pretty soft.

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06-19-2014, 12:04 PM
  #79
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I love Stralman but people need to stop acting like "duhrrrr he only had 13 points who curz defensman don't do that!" isn't a relevant point. It absolutely is. Just like how we're paying Girardi for almost no offense, we'd be paying Stralman for almost no offense. He makes our offense possible a lot more than Girardi, but he's not getting the finishes, you can't just ignore his lack of points, they're important.

I wouldn't pay him a hair over 5 million.

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06-19-2014, 12:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I love Stralman but people need to stop acting like "duhrrrr he only had 13 points who curz defensman don't do that!" isn't a relevant point. It absolutely is. Just like how we're paying Girardi for almost no offense, we'd be paying Stralman for almost no offense. He makes our offense possible a lot more than Girardi, but he's not getting the finishes, you can't just ignore his lack of points, they're important.

I wouldn't pay him a hair over 5 million.
Well, at least with Staal and Girardi, you know what you're getting. Shut-down type guys that are strong in their own zone. Guys that have done it for years against the top forwards in the league.

I keep hearing how Stralman is a good skating D-man who makes these great outlet passes and aids the transition game tremendously. If thats the case, wheres the offense?

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06-19-2014, 12:10 PM
  #82
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I'm a bit lower on Stralman; 4.25 mil is the highest I'd go.

He's Rozsival with less offense. That's not a bad thing, but it's not Marc Staal either.

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06-19-2014, 12:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well, at least with Staal and Girardi, you know what you're getting. Shut-down type guys that are strong in their own zone. Guys that have done it for years against the top forwards in the league.

I keep hearing how Stralman is a good skating D-man who makes these great outlet passes and aids the transition game tremendously. If thats the case, wheres the offense?
I think Stralman is good at moving the puck up the ice, but once he crosses the blueline, his offense just dries up. He's much better defensively than he used to be but his production has taken a hit as a result.

I advocated for Stralman to be used on the PP once Richards was struggling. But one has to think there's a reason why he's been used so sparingly on the PP the past few years.

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06-19-2014, 12:14 PM
  #84
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The Rangers have 4 picks in the draft.

2nd,3rd,4th and 5th(FLA)

1st-TB

5th-SJ

6th-SJ

7th-LA

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads

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06-19-2014, 12:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
It is no softer than it was this year.

Gardiner would probably be relatively cheap, too. Nonnis says they're considering moving him to forward... that's pretty significant news.
You lost physicality and size in your own end by moving Staal, and lost it up front as well by replacing Pouliot with Miller. Pouliot is a flake, but he can certainly lay the body very well. His play between the whistles is very effective too. Miller might grow into that, but I'm not sold.

I don't think Gardiner would be cheap at all. I do, however, think he would be very effective on this team.

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06-19-2014, 12:15 PM
  #86
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What do you guys think about Staal to Dallas for Kevin Connauton and Devin Shore.

Shore seems to be in the Stepan mold, though it may be a bit before he plays for us. Connauton is going into his 2nd year and played 3rd pair minutes last year. I don't know if he can handle 2nd pair yet, but he might be a better option than Allen or Moore. He would at least replace Staal with an NHLer on a cheap contract.

Or maybe there is a way we can pry Oleksiak out of them, though he only has 23 NHL games of experience and I doubt they would trade him.

Other potential defensmen from Dallas are Trevor Daley and Brenden Dillon, but I don't see them trading either of them.

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06-19-2014, 12:17 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
What do you guys think about Staal to Dallas for Kevin Connauton and Devin Shore.

Shore seems to be in the Stepan mold, though it may be a bit before he plays for us. Connauton is going into his 2nd year and played 3rd pair minutes last year. I don't know if he can handle 2nd pair yet, but he might be a better option than Allen or Moore. He would at least replace Staal with an NHLer on a cheap contract.

Or maybe there is a way we can pry Oleksiak out of them, though he only has 23 NHL games of experience and I doubt they would trade him.

Other potential defensmen from Dallas are Trevor Daley and Brenden Dillon, but I don't see them trading either of them.
I love that it's different from other things we've seen!

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06-19-2014, 12:18 PM
  #88
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I think the Stars were open to moving Daley earlier in the season. However, they're pretty solid down the left with Dillon and Goligoski. They need a righty now that they lost Robidas.

I do really like Brett Ritchie and Alex Chiasson though.

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06-19-2014, 12:18 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Have you ever tried to hold a hockey stick with a broken pinky? It's very painful and certainly inhibits your ability to grip the stick properly.
Any speculation on how Girardi broke his pinky? Did he hit something in the locker room after his giveaway in game one OT led to Williams' OT goal?

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06-19-2014, 12:20 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers have 4 picks in the draft.

2nd,3rd,4th and 5th(FLA)

1st-TB

5th-SJ

6th-SJ

7th-LA

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads
LA beat us and took our picks?

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06-19-2014, 12:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Any speculation on how Girardi broke his pinky? Did he hit something in the locker room after his giveaway in game one OT led to Williams' OT goal?
I think I remember seeing something about blocking a shot in game 2

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06-19-2014, 12:21 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers have 4 picks in the draft.

2nd,3rd,4th and 5th(FLA)

1st-TB

5th-SJ

6th-SJ

7th-LA

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads
Jesus christ. I didn't realize we only had 4.

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06-19-2014, 12:22 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I think the Stars were open to moving Daley earlier in the season. However, they're pretty solid down the left with Dillon and Goligoski. They need a righty now that they lost Robidas.

I do really like Brett Ritchie and Alex Chiasson though.
There's no way Dallas moves Brett Ritchie.

Chiasson maybe, but I don't think he's that good. And he's another RW.

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06-19-2014, 12:22 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Jesus christ. I didn't realize we only had 4.
Yeah, but that's 5th round pick is a high 5th

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Old
06-19-2014, 12:27 PM
  #95
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The way I think our team will look like is this:

Molson-stepan-Nash
Kreider-Miller-MSL
Fast-Brass-Zucc
???-Moore-Carcillo

McD-G
Staal-Klein
Moore-McIIrath

Trade Dorsett for pick sign Molson for cheap and sign fourth liner for cheap

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Old
06-19-2014, 12:28 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
There's no way Dallas moves Brett Ritchie.

Chiasson maybe, but I don't think he's that good. And he's another RW.
I know, just saying I like his game. I also like Stransky and Patrick Nemeth. The goal Nemeth scored in the Calder final was gorgeous, especially when you consider he's never been an offensive guy.

I believe Chiasson can play the left-side of the ice as well. He's probably not elite material, but I don't think 50-55 points regularly is out of his reach. Plus he has a nice edge to his game.

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06-19-2014, 12:30 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I love Stralman but people need to stop acting like "duhrrrr he only had 13 points who curz defensman don't do that!" isn't a relevant point. It absolutely is. Just like how we're paying Girardi for almost no offense, we'd be paying Stralman for almost no offense. He makes our offense possible a lot more than Girardi, but he's not getting the finishes, you can't just ignore his lack of points, they're important.

I wouldn't pay him a hair over 5 million.
I wouldn't pay 5 million.

Also, if the basis for the argument is needing more offense from the D you don't hang it on the guy whose game is conducive the creating more offense in general.

To me the decision should have been Girardi or Staal (Staal being my choice) but due to the fact Girardi essentially needed to get inked before the deadline because they needed him for the stretch/playoffs and letting him walk for nothing would have been idiotic, it became Stralman versus Staal.

Lastly, as much as the Rangers need more offense from the back-end, where are they getting it? If it was so easy would it have been this long without a PMD in the first place? The point being if you don't have the option to get a PMD or even a PPQB defenseman then you do your best to retain the guys you have who help create offense. Staal is their only trade chip right now, so to me, yes, Stralman's lack of points is irrelevant when evaluating whether or not he should be retained. If the offense is such an issue trade Staal, another guy who brings little offensively, to someone who has a PMD surplus but needs a solid defense first guy. Otherwise just try to stick with what worked.

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06-19-2014, 12:39 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I'm a bit lower on Stralman; 4.25 mil is the highest I'd go.

He's Rozsival with less offense. That's not a bad thing, but it's not Marc Staal either.
Rozy is a great comparison for Stralman. And a phenomenal illustration of how the echo chamber works... In both directions.

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Old
06-19-2014, 12:43 PM
  #99
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Ottawa wants a NHL player plus a top prospect plus maybe a pick for Spezza. Vancouver wants a NHL player plus a top prospect plus maybe a pick for Kesler. The Rangers would need to get the same type of return for Staal. Maybe the Rangers give Paul Krepelka permission to speak with other teams about an extension for Staal. They gave Callahan's agent permission to speak with some teams. Dreger said something last night about teams would like to negotiate with Spezza's agent about getting a new contract done as part of the trade. Staal will get a big contract. $5.45M salary for this season. These guys don't take pay cuts. Callahan had a $4.825M salary this season and he wasn't accepting less than that or a little more as a cap hit in his next contract. The Rangers have big money invested in Girardi. They have McD on a bargain basement deal. The Rangers want to bring Stralman back. He won't be cheap. Staal will be very expensive.

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06-19-2014, 12:45 PM
  #100
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Lots of good stuff over the last couple of pages. (ElectrocutedCat - welcome to the boards. Excellent contributions to the discussion already.) Here are my thoughts on the various points brought up over the last several posts (apologies in advance for the length):

1) Regarding Stralman having come off the scrapheap: it does happen. And don't forget that it takes defensemen the longest of all to learn their positions. At this point, I think what you see is what you get - he is a very solid defenseman who excels at the possession game and is worth the $4-5MM AAV that he's going to get. Furthermore, he stepped up in the POs and that is part of why management made Girardi the higher priority and why his salary expectations went from something in the $3MMs to something as high as the $5MMs - but that is a reason to value him more, not less.

2) Regarding whether Staal makes Stralman better or Stralman makes Staal better: I think Staal was instrumental in helping reclaim Stralman from the scrapheap; his fantastic defensive play, particularly in the old system - and before the injury - provided stability to anyone he was paired with and that helped Stralman find the confidence to develop his possession-based game. Now, however, I believe that Stralman has developed, while Staal has been somewhat diminished by his injuries - and the former is significantly better suited for AV's system than the latter. And so I think the roles are now reversed - Stralman now makes Staal better.

3) Regarding Klein's ability to step up: I agree with BRB that he showed very nice flashes during the POs. Again, that is something to be valued, rather than denigrated as "small sample size". If need be, I think he could do the job, although I do think there would be a marginal step down in performance on the second pair.

4) Regarding John Moore's ability to step up: he has fantastic physical gifts and shows flashes as well. However, his negative flashes can also be disturbing. As I mentioned above, defensemen take the longest to develop and I would like to give him the opportunity to maximize those impressive physical skills. However, I would like to keep him on the third pair until he shows that he has. Unlike Klein, he's not steady enough in his current play for me to trust the increase in responsibility until he's actually shown more stability in his current role.

5) Regarding trading Staal: We can't have another Callahan/Girardi situation. He doesn't fit the system as well as other guys (including Stralman). He has had terrible luck with injuries and he does appear to be somewhat diminished. He is going to get a $6MM AAV contract next year. His value is still high. We need to make improvements elsewhere. The net effect of all of these points is that it needs to be done - and sooner rather than later. As others have said, time to trade a guy while his value is high - we cannot let the fact that there is no one currently on the big league roster who is an obvious replacement prevent us from making that decision. Good teams find solutions - they uncover the next Stralman, they promote a kid who steps up and steps into the player's shoes, or they make a shrewd trade.

6) Regarding whom to target: It needs to be a center, but I don't like ANY of the big names that have been bandied about. No more aging stars, please. The only one that's at all appealing is O'Reilly, and frankly I didn't realize that footspeed was such an issue for him - whenever I've seen him, he's been a difference making player, but in retrospect, he would be the guy coming into the zone second, trailing one of the Avs' great centermen, and I wonder if his lack of speed wouldn't be much more exposed on this team, especially where he would be asked to revert to center and wouldn't have Duchesne/Mackinnon/Stastny to play with. I would still be in favor of getting him because he plays such a complete game and just strikes me as a winner, but all things being equal, I'd prefer an outside the box solution. Go get a kid on the cusp of breaking out or uncover a hidden gem, as I've said in the past and as ElectrocutedCat has suggested above. What would it take to get Bjugstad or Coyle? Huberdeau or Zibanejad? But maybe those guys are a little too obvious - what about one of Buffalo's young centers? Rakell in Anaheim? Or how about a guy who's never quite lived up to expectations like Backlund in Calgary? My preference would be to make a move of that kind and then let the new guy, Step, Brass, Miller and Lindberg duke it out in camp. (Unless of course a Brass/Step is added in a major deal to get a true, established first line center - but I don't see that happening.)

7) Regarding filling the inevitable hole(s) in our defense: However this plays out, whether they trade Staal, lose Stralman or both, the team is very likely going to need someone new to step in and pick up the slack on D. I have advocated getting a cheap vet coming off an injury or a down year as insurance, but I am more optimistic than most that we would have someone step up from within - IF we only have to replace one of the two (I think both would be too much to ask in one season). I think Allen would be excellent in AV's system - and fortunately, he can play both sides. If they sign Skjei, I'm also confident that he could step right in and play in his first year. McI I'm less sanguine about, but by the same token, if he takes a big step this offseason, he does bring something that no one else in the organization has. And that's without counting new guys like Zamorsky and Bodie.



To sum up, I do believe that the team can step forward - but I think it requires trading Staal. And as a result, I think it is a priority to sign Stralman. The resulting loss on defense can be mitigated - the real question is whether you get the right player in return...
Thank you for your kind words.

I agree with everything you said here.

It would stink to lose Staal, I don't want them to trade him, but the cap restrictions and need to improve other areas of the roster...it makes a lot of sense. If we can come out of this summer having only had to replace/upgrade Richards and take a downgrade from Staal. I'd say we dodged a bullet based on the amount of guys we have to retain.

Its going to be tight. I trust Gorton to find value players. And as crazy as it might sound, i trust Sather to allow his staff to help him make the right moves. I questioned the St. Louis trade, but it nearly worked. We were 3 wins and 3 OT loses from a Cup.

One thing is for sure, we will need to find value. Be it bargain bin, scrap heap, or what have you. Value players that fit the identity of the team.

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