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06-21-2014, 07:43 PM
  #201
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Going back to the Leetch-Buek pairing if this board was around then I can only imagine the screams that would be going on before people,fans,saw that it would work...I can bet you right now the Rangers brass thinks or is hoping that DM will someday be paired with McD

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06-21-2014, 08:52 PM
  #202
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Going back to the Leetch-Buek pairing if this board was around then I can only imagine the screams that would be going on before people,fans,saw that it would work...I can bet you right now the Rangers brass thinks or is hoping that DM will someday be paired with McD

If McIlrath becomes a faster, tougher version of Beukeboom, that will be a monstrous pairing. McDonagh would be free to roam as his offensive skills develop. McDonagh could potentially become a 50-55 point defenseman while McIlrath will protect Lundqvist from rebounds and screens.

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06-21-2014, 08:54 PM
  #203
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Going back to the Leetch-Buek pairing if this board was around then I can only imagine the screams that would be going on before people,fans,saw that it would work...I can bet you right now the Rangers brass thinks or is hoping that DM will someday be paired with McD
Im not so sure Beukeboom would have been able to survive in today's NHL, which makes the connection to McIlrath so comical at this point.

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06-21-2014, 09:10 PM
  #204
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Going back to the Leetch-Buek pairing if this board was around then I can only imagine the screams that would be going on before people,fans,saw that it would work...I can bet you right now the Rangers brass thinks or is hoping that DM will someday be paired with McD
Apples and oranges--Beukeboom had already played 284 regular season games (and 29 playoff games) when he was traded to the Rangers, he had a Stanley Cup ring (and played very well for the Oilers during their playoff run in 1990--first time I got to see him play regularly), he played one full season in the minors, after the 1985-6 season he played a total of 22 AHL games. He played well with Leetch from the time they were paired together. I don't see what one has to do with the other.

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06-21-2014, 09:15 PM
  #205
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Im not so sure Beukeboom would have been able to survive in today's NHL, which makes the connection to McIlrath so comical at this point.
Of course Beukeboom would have trouble in today's NHL--he's turning 50 next year!

Seriously, I think that's true of most comparisons between different eras in hockey. Beukeboom was good enough to play on two Stanley Cup teams. I think if anything people tend to underrate his abilities.

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06-21-2014, 09:22 PM
  #206
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Im not so sure Beukeboom would have been able to survive in today's NHL, which makes the connection to McIlrath so comical at this point.
Yeah, all anyone has to do is re-watch the video from 94 to see how different defense was back then. Teams got away with a comical amount of casual obstruction in the 90s.

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06-21-2014, 09:35 PM
  #207
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Yeah, all anyone has to do is re-watch the video from 94 to see how different defense was back then. Teams got away with a comical amount of casual obstruction in the 90s.
If Beuk played in today's game he would have been trained in midget, junior and minors not to obstruct.

Brooks Orpik, Robyn Regher, Barret Jackman, and Hal Gill carved out nice careers being big, slow and limited offensively

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06-21-2014, 09:41 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
If McIlrath becomes a faster, tougher version of Beukeboom, that will be a monstrous pairing. McDonagh would be free to roam as his offensive skills develop. McDonagh could potentially become a 50-55 point defenseman while McIlrath will protect Lundqvist from rebounds and screens.
That would certainly be ideal. Just have to hope he relishes in the role once he is given a legitimate opportunity.

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06-21-2014, 09:56 PM
  #209
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Yeah, all anyone has to do is re-watch the video from 94 to see how different defense was back then. Teams got away with a comical amount of casual obstruction in the 90s.


When Steve Larmer retired in 1995, he said he no longer enjoyed playing hockey because 90s hockey had so much hooking and obstruction.

On a related note, had he not retired, the Rangers likely would've won the Cup and avoided the Norstrom trade.

Graves - Messier - Verbeek
Robitaille - Ferraro - Kovalev
Matteau - Nemchinov - Larmer
Langdon - Sundstrom - Momesso

That's an incredibly deep lineup. No need to send away Ferraro and Norstrom for Kurri, Churla and McSorley.

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06-21-2014, 10:19 PM
  #210
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When Steve Larmer retired in 1995, he said he no longer enjoyed playing hockey because 90s hockey had so much hooking and obstruction.

On a related note, had he not retired, the Rangers likely would've won the Cup and avoided the Norstrom trade.

Graves - Messier - Verbeek
Robitaille - Ferraro - Kovalev
Matteau - Nemchinov - Larmer
Langdon - Sundstrom - Momesso

That's an incredibly deep lineup. No need to send away Ferraro and Norstrom for Kurri, Churla and McSorley.
I feel like the long term viability of the 90s Rangers as serious contenders was sealed as soon as Smith dealt Amonte. People can debate whether keeping Amonte and Gartner would've made it easier or if they wouldn't have won at all, but Amonte undoubtedly would've made a huge difference in the years going forward. He was the homegrown star forward that the Rangers never seem to have. Dumping Norstrom, Zubov, and later Savard just piled onto the growing ****show as we headed into the dark ages.

Also, Smith passed up dealing Kovalev and Matteau for Shanahan, which would've made up for the Amonte deal.

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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
If Beuk played in today's game he would have been trained in midget, junior and minors not to obstruct.

Brooks Orpik, Robyn Regher, Barret Jackman, and Hal Gill carved out nice careers being big, slow and limited offensively
Orpik and Gill were never all that good. As the game moves forward, more and more emphasis gets placed on a defenseman's ability to make an effective breakout pass. That's what makes Stralman so effective. He keeps the Rangers from getting pinned in for long stretches when he's on the ice. This is my main concern with McIlrath. Is he going to be able to effectively move the puck out of his own zone or is he going to be turning the puck over and icing it all the time like Girardi does?


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06-21-2014, 10:34 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I feel like the long term viability of the 90s Rangers as serious contenders was sealed as soon as Smith dealt Amonte. People can debate whether keeping Amonte and Gartner would've made it easier or if they wouldn't have won at all, but Amonte undoubtedly would've made a huge difference in the years going forward. He was the homegrown star forward that the Rangers never seem to have. Dumping Norstrom, Zubov, and later Savard just piled onto the growing ****show as we headed into the dark ages.

Also, Smith passed up dealing Kovalev and Matteau for Shanahan, which would've made up for the Amonte deal.



Orpik and Gill were never all that good. As the game moves forward, more and more emphasis gets placed on a defenseman's ability to make an effective breakout pass. That's what makes Stralman so effective. He keeps the Rangers from getting pinned in for long stretches when he's on the ice. This is my main concern with McIlrath. Is he going to be able to effectively move the puck out of his own zone or is he going to be turning the puck over and icing it all the time like Girardi does?
What?

Orpik used to be one of the most feared defensemen in the league. His breakout pass wasn't a strong point, but he kept the crease clear and made forwards think twice about cutting through the middle of the ice. In terms of pure puck ability, no he never was great. But why is that the only valuable skill for defensemen?

And FWIW McIlrath's puck skills are still somewhat raw but developing nicely. He'll likely be an efficient puck mover.

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06-21-2014, 10:36 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
What?

Orpik used to be one of the most feared defensemen in the league. His breakout pass wasn't a strong point, but he kept the crease clear and made forwards think twice about cutting through the middle of the ice. In terms of pure puck ability, no he never was great. But why is that the only valuable skill for defensemen?
I've always felt that Orpik was never that great of a defender. He was never Marc Staal in his own zone. He just hit people hard.

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06-21-2014, 10:40 PM
  #213
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I've always felt that Orpik was never that great of a defender. He was never Marc Staal in his own zone. He just hit people hard.
He wasn't Marc Staal, but he was definitely more than competent in his own end.

I also disagree with the notion that he's slow. He moved quite well for a guy his size, in his prime that is. Definitely not now.

And I also disagree with the idea that McIlrath is going to be in the same category of Regehr, Gill, etc. He has far more mobility than them and more efficient puck skills. Not flashy, but efficient. He can make a breakout pass, but he probably wont thread the needle to a streaking winger.

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06-22-2014, 05:03 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
I feel like the long term viability of the 90s Rangers as serious contenders was sealed as soon as Smith dealt Amonte. People can debate whether keeping Amonte and Gartner would've made it easier or if they wouldn't have won at all, but Amonte undoubtedly would've made a huge difference in the years going forward. He was the homegrown star forward that the Rangers never seem to have. Dumping Norstrom, Zubov, and later Savard just piled onto the growing ****show as we headed into the dark ages.

Also, Smith passed up dealing Kovalev and Matteau for Shanahan, which would've made up for the Amonte deal.



Orpik and Gill were never all that good. As the game moves forward, more and more emphasis gets placed on a defenseman's ability to make an effective breakout pass. That's what makes Stralman so effective. He keeps the Rangers from getting pinned in for long stretches when he's on the ice. This is my main concern with McIlrath. Is he going to be able to effectively move the puck out of his own zone or is he going to be turning the puck over and icing it all the time like Girardi does?
It doesn't matter if you think they are/were good or not.

Gil played 1100 NHL games and won a Cup, and Orpik won a Cup and was an Olympian. Both have played in over 90 playoff games.

If you get that kind of mileage out of any d-man regardless of where he was drafted, you consider it a success. Especially if you draft a guy everybody says is "slow"

Willie Mitchell tortured the Rangers in the SCF. He was burned on some mistakes, but had an otherwise excellent SCF. He's old as balls and slow.

You talk about Stralman? How about all those critical goals where he was allowing guys like Carter and King to completely own the crease area because he was too weak to move them.

Completely disagree. You need and always need crease clearers, especially when playing the big Western teams.

You can teach a breakout pass. You can't teach size.

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06-22-2014, 05:08 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
He wasn't Marc Staal, but he was definitely more than competent in his own end.

I also disagree with the notion that he's slow. He moved quite well for a guy his size, in his prime that is. Definitely not now.

And I also disagree with the idea that McIlrath is going to be in the same category of Regehr, Gill, etc. He has far more mobility than them and more efficient puck skills. Not flashy, but efficient. He can make a breakout pass, but he probably wont thread the needle to a streaking winger.

What is he going to be? Chelios? Stevens? Campbell?

McIlrath won't put up points in the NHL.

Staal had wheels, had a big shot and played on the PP in junior. Now when he thinks about offense the puck breaks into a million pieces.

If he makes it to the NHL, McIlrath will be a crease clearing dman and shot blocker.

As the forwards he plays against get bigger, so will he.

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06-22-2014, 07:43 AM
  #216
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McIlrath is a decent skater. He's not some pylon. For a defender his size, he's actually quite fast. He's a kid that's going to come up here and make his mistakes, like any young defender. Once he gets acclimated to the NHL, he's going to be a fan favorite. The kid does everything we lack right now on our blueline.

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06-22-2014, 08:07 AM
  #217
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My point is that he's likely to play a defense-first role and carve out a niche as a stay-at-home type.

Lots of dmen skate well when they're young. As they get older they focus on getting wider and stronger.

Bourque, Stevens and Macinnis are just three examples of guys who were good skaters who developed into stationary types.

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06-22-2014, 10:01 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
If McIlrath becomes a faster, tougher version of Beukeboom, that will be a monstrous pairing. McDonagh would be free to roam as his offensive skills develop. McDonagh could potentially become a 50-55 point defenseman while McIlrath will protect Lundqvist from rebounds and screens.
I think McD is too good defensively to allow him to go and become more of a pure offensive D man. I'd rather sspread two solid Defensive guys out and have two solid shutdown pairs then have one shutdown pair and the rest be headless chicken pairs...then again it all depends on who the 4 Dmen are I guess

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06-22-2014, 01:13 PM
  #219
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You talk about Stralman? How about all those critical goals where he was allowing guys like Carter and King to completely own the crease area because he was too weak to move them.

Completely disagree. You need and always need crease clearers, especially when playing the big Western teams.

You can teach a breakout pass. You can't teach size.
If Stralman's skillset was so easily teachable, then the numbers wouldn't say he's one of the very best in the league. Also, if he was getting bullied then what the **** was happening to Girardi? Stralman was on for three of the Kings' 12 non-powerplay goals. Girardi was on for seven of them.

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06-22-2014, 02:53 PM
  #220
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Orpik is a heavy hitter. He is also a cheap shot artist. Personally I thought he got a good comeuppance this year was Thornton.

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06-22-2014, 03:14 PM
  #221
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I view McD as a 50 point scorer already.

If Hal Gill and other guys have been able to play in this era I do not see any reason why Beukeboom would not be able to play in this era as well. I'm not talking 33-34 year old Beukeboom. I'm talking Beukeboom in his prime before age, injuries, and concussions took their toll. Beukeboom was a first round pick because he had some hockey skills not just because he was 6 foot 5. If he could not skate at all he would not have played top pairing defense.

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11-01-2014, 10:27 PM
  #222
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Hey Guys,

I am an outsider looking for some advice on McIlrath. What do you see his timeframe for being an NHL starter being? And do you believe he will make the NHL? Has he looked solid in the AHL?

Thanks, any advice would be much appreciated.

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11-01-2014, 10:45 PM
  #223
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It really depends on who you ask.

In general, the opinions oscillate from a few years ago to never.


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11-01-2014, 10:51 PM
  #224
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It really depends on who you ask.

In general the opinions oscillate from a few years ago to never.
I 100% laughed. Nailed it.

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11-01-2014, 11:29 PM
  #225
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Well, what do you guys think?

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