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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

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Old
06-18-2014, 11:30 PM
  #1
Lundquest
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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread II ‎

Other thread was over 1,000 posts. Keep it going here.

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06-18-2014, 11:53 PM
  #2
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I wouldn't mind trading Staal+Miller for Thornton or ROR.
We really need a #1C imo.

Here's the best plausible roster I could come up with based on that trade.
I'd hate to see Boyle go and the defense takes a bit of a hit but it was really hard to stay under the cap!



FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.250m) / Thornton/ROR ($6.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Jesper Fast ($0.805m) / Derick Brassard ($3.750m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) / Dominic Moore ($1.750m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Extra Forward (~$0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.250m) / Anton Stralman ($3.750m)
Kevin Klein ($2.900m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
Extra Defensemen (~$0.800m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

------
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,379,167; BONUSES: $686,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,120,833

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06-18-2014, 11:59 PM
  #3
DanielBrassard
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Staal+ for Kadri and Gardiner

Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($2.000m) / Derick Brassard ($4.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Jake Gardiner ($2.500m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.250m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

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06-19-2014, 12:08 AM
  #4
Capt McDonut
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Originally Posted by DanielBrassard View Post
Staal+ for Kadri and Gardiner

Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Nazem Kadri ($2.900m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Benoit Pouliot ($2.000m) / Derick Brassard ($4.000m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
Oscar Lindberg ($0.675m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Derek Dorsett ($1.633m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.825m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Jake Gardiner ($2.500m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
John Moore ($1.250m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)
I'd prefer this over the rosters ppl are posting with Thornton... Stay young

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Old
06-19-2014, 12:16 AM
  #5
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I hate the period between everything...no hockey.no draft. No signings/trades.. this sucks

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06-19-2014, 12:40 AM
  #6
Riverdale
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Originally Posted by someone stole hank View Post
I hate the period between everything...no hockey.no draft. No signings/trades.. this sucks
I enjoy it. The calm before Sather potentially ruining the team.

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06-19-2014, 12:42 AM
  #7
Capt McDonut
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At this point I'm just gunna be happy brad richards is gone... It could be worse. Atleast were not the islanders or the Debbie's

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06-19-2014, 01:40 AM
  #8
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I'd love a creative move for Kadri and Gardiner or for ROR, but until something like that happens all we can hope for is a Stralman re-signing. I don't think this front office has any clue about who the good possession players are and managed to put together a good possession team largely by accident.

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Old
06-19-2014, 04:30 AM
  #9
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I see Sather making a blockbuster and doing this:

Stepan + Nash + Lindberg + 3rd for E Staal + J Staal

Dorsett for late 2nd/3rd at the draft

Canadian TV money makes the cap ceiling $71,1 M as previously advertised

Signs RFAs Kreider, Brassard, Zuccarello, J Moore
Signs own UFAs B Pouliot, D Moore, R Diaz
Sign outside UFA S Thornton
Promotes McIllraith, Miller and/or Fast
Stralman, Boyle, Falk walk
Winds up with the Staal brothers united (imagine the PR value) and a roster like this:

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.650m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) or Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.900m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.650m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.900m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Shawn Thornton ($1.450m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
John Moore ($1.700m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $69,415,000
BONUSES: $1,036,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,685,000

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Old
06-19-2014, 05:05 AM
  #10
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I just don't see why the Rangers would want either Staal at those cap hits.

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Old
06-19-2014, 05:06 AM
  #11
Blue Blooded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I see Sather making a blockbuster and doing this:

Stepan + Nash + Lindberg + 3rd for E Staal + J Staal

Dorsett for late 2nd/3rd at the draft

Canadian TV money makes the cap ceiling $71,1 M as previously advertised

Signs RFAs Kreider, Brassard, Zuccarello, J Moore
Signs own UFAs B Pouliot, D Moore, R Diaz
Sign outside UFA S Thornton
Promotes McIllraith, Miller and/or Fast
Stralman, Boyle, Falk walk
Winds up with the Staal brothers united (imagine the PR value) and a roster like this:

FORWARDS
Chris Kreider ($2.650m) / Eric Staal ($8.250m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Jordan Staal ($6.000m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) or Jesper Fast ($0.805m)
Benoit Pouliot ($1.900m) / Derick Brassard ($3.700m) / Mats Zuccarello ($3.650m)
Daniel Carcillo ($0.900m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Shawn Thornton ($1.450m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)
John Moore ($1.700m) / Dylan McIlrath ($0.703m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.300m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)

BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
TOTALS
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000
CAP PAYROLL: $69,415,000
BONUSES: $1,036,667
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,685,000
Nightmare, pretty much a worst case scenario if we are talking realistic outcomes (i.e. excluding something like releasing Kreider/Zucc to offer sheets, keeping Richards, and buying out Nash) . I don't see that team getting out of the 1st round and it has very little room to improve going forward.

The 1st line will see all players scoring ~60 points, with ~48% possession despite having possession-driver Kreider. Not surprised if they are a net negative in +/-.

2nd line may perform well possession wise (maybe ~51%), but will not score much, 30-40 points for Hagelin/Staal, 20-30 for Miller/Fast (Miller likely to score more than Fast). But they will likely get the toughest checking assignments and a lot of defensive zone starts, so I wouldn't be surprised if they only pull ~49% possession. But that would be very good considering usage.

3rd line will likely be worse than this year since the defence has downgraded massively. If Zucc stays on this line he'll get ~55, Poo around 30, Brass 35-45. Possession-wise 51-52%.

4th line will be a nightmare and a return to a line that can't be trusted more than a few minutes per game. Shawn Thornton has never been a good hockey player, but has been hidden in depth minutes on Boston (whose 4th line was vastly overrated to begin with, way inferior to Boyle-Moore-Dorsett/Carcillo). Carcilo was fine with Moore and Boyle, but if we replace on of them with Thornton that line will be overwhelmed. Moore can't do it all by himself. I predict sub-45% possession, with only Moore over 20 points. Carcillo+Thornton wont reach 20 points put together.

The entire defence is a nightmare with no puck movers outside of McDonagh who will have to play 30 minutes a night for the team to be competitive.

Basically, we are back to 2010-11 level of competitiveness but with an a lot older team.


Last edited by Blue Blooded: 06-19-2014 at 05:17 AM.
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Old
06-19-2014, 05:18 AM
  #12
UAGoalieGuy
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Could they do something minimal? Something like sign a 2/3C like Legwand for a year or two? Trade Dorsett for a pick. Sign Winnik to replace Boyle. Re-up Poo, D. Moore and Stralman.

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Hagelin - Legwand - MSL
Poo - Brassard - Zucc
Winnik - D. Moore - Fast

McD - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
J. Moore - Klein

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Old
06-19-2014, 05:35 AM
  #13
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If Sather trades for Thornton:

Brassard + J. Moore + Dorsett + ???

Sharks GM says he wants to rebuild. Thornton has a full NMC and reports are that he only wants to play for the Rangers. What would the Rangers have to add to this deal if anything?

Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
UFA signing ($???m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
UFA signing ($???m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)

Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)


BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,211,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $2,488,333

$2,488,333 to sign a 3rd and 4th line LW, a 13th forward and a 7th defenseman


If Sather doesn't trade for Thornton:

Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
UFA signing ($???m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
UFA signing ($???m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)

Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)


BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,361,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $5,338,333

$5,338,333 to sign a 3rd and 4th line LW, a 13th forward and a 7th defenseman

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Old
06-19-2014, 05:38 AM
  #14
Blue Blooded
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The more I think about it, the more I'd like to trade Brassard for futures and sign Grabovski (unless we trade Brassard in a package for O'Reilly/Thornton).

Brassard just doesn't do enough 5v5, and if we aren't going to use him on our 1st PP unit his value to the team decreases massively as it is the only situation he excels in.

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06-19-2014, 06:12 AM
  #15
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How could anyone even consider trading core pieces for 34-year-old Thornton?

We've been through this too many times in the last six years.

Could it pay off? Sure. Will it? Look at the past.

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06-19-2014, 06:38 AM
  #16
showjaxx
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
How could anyone even consider trading core pieces for 34-year-old Thornton?

We've been through this too many times in the last six years.

Could it pay off? Sure. Will it? Look at the past.
It doesn't really matter what we think when the President/GM of the team is in "win now mode". He's old, had surgery to treat prostate cancer last March and his team just made the Stanley Cup finals. He will be doing everything he possibly can to ensure that the Rangers make it back to the finals next season.

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06-19-2014, 06:48 AM
  #17
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Would Gorton want to bring Thornton in? He was part of the management team that shipped him out of Boston.

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Old
06-19-2014, 06:50 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showjaxx View Post
If Sather trades for Thornton:

Brassard + J. Moore + Dorsett + ???

Sharks GM says he wants to rebuild. Thornton has a full NMC and reports are that he only wants to play for the Rangers. What would the Rangers have to add to this deal if anything?

Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Joe Thornton ($6.750m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
UFA signing ($???m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
UFA signing ($???m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)

Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)


BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,211,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $2,488,333

$2,488,333 to sign a 3rd and 4th line LW, a 13th forward and a 7th defenseman


If Sather doesn't trade for Thornton:

Carl Hagelin ($2.250m) / Derek Stepan ($3.075m) / Martin St. Louis ($5.625m)
Chris Kreider ($2.500m) / Derick Brassard ($3.900m) / Mats Zuccarello ($4.000m)
UFA signing ($???m) / J.T. Miller ($0.894m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
UFA signing ($???m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / Jesper Fast ($0.805m)

Ryan McDonagh ($4.700m) / Dan Girardi ($5.500m)
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Anton Stralman ($4.250m)
Conor Allen ($0.925m) / Kevin Klein ($2.900m)

Henrik Lundqvist ($8.500m)
Cameron Talbot ($0.563m)


BUYOUTS
Wade Redden ($0.000m)
Brad Richards ($0.000m)
------
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,361,667; BONUSES: $1,295,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $5,338,333

$5,338,333 to sign a 3rd and 4th line LW, a 13th forward and a 7th defenseman
Can anyone confirm reports of Thorton wants only to come to the Rangers?

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Old
06-19-2014, 06:52 AM
  #19
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Can anyone confirm reports of Thorton wants only to come to the Rangers?
Because if this is the case, it changes San Jose's leverage a little bit.

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Old
06-19-2014, 07:16 AM
  #20
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I posted this in the Richards thread, I was curious what you all thought? Apologies for the redundancy:

What about someone like Derek Roy, Mikhail Grabovski (someone mentioned him earlier), or Dave Legwand? I know these guys aren't the prototypical #1 centers but if the goal is to try to keep roster turnover to a minimum, my thought is that with Brad Richards' buyout, these players could be cheaper options and it allows JT Miller to compete for a roster spot than hand it over due to lack of depth. Admittedly, I haven't done extensive research and number crunching. I used cap geeks UFA finder and looked for second tier center that wouldn't cripple the cap nor cost assets.

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06-19-2014, 07:22 AM
  #21
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I really don't like any of the options posted...the best case scenario would be getting ROR because he is another good 2 way center who plays a game bigger than he is but I don't like the cap position it puts us in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewcon40 View Post
I posted this in the Richards thread, I was curious what you all thought? Apologies for the redundancy:

What about someone like Derek Roy, Mikhail Grabovski (someone mentioned him earlier), or Dave Legwand? I know these guys aren't the prototypical #1 centers but if the goal is to try to keep roster turnover to a minimum, my thought is that with Brad Richards' buyout, these players could be cheaper options and it allows JT Miller to compete for a roster spot than hand it over due to lack of depth. Admittedly, I haven't done extensive research and number crunching. I used cap geeks UFA finder and looked for second tier center that wouldn't cripple the cap nor cost assets.
According to Blues fans Roy is a shell of himself. Grabovski isn't going to be cheap. Legwand isn't great at any one thing and not flashy enough for most people on this board...He could be a good stopgap center for a couple years


Last edited by BroadwayHustle: 06-19-2014 at 07:28 AM.
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06-19-2014, 07:32 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Nightmare, pretty much a worst case scenario if we are talking realistic outcomes (i.e. excluding something like releasing Kreider/Zucc to offer sheets, keeping Richards, and buying out Nash) . I don't see that team getting out of the 1st round and it has very little room to improve going forward.

The 1st line will see all players scoring ~60 points, with ~48% possession despite having possession-driver Kreider. Not surprised if they are a net negative in +/-.

2nd line may perform well possession wise (maybe ~51%), but will not score much, 30-40 points for Hagelin/Staal, 20-30 for Miller/Fast (Miller likely to score more than Fast). But they will likely get the toughest checking assignments and a lot of defensive zone starts, so I wouldn't be surprised if they only pull ~49% possession. But that would be very good considering usage.

3rd line will likely be worse than this year since the defence has downgraded massively. If Zucc stays on this line he'll get ~55, Poo around 30, Brass 35-45. Possession-wise 51-52%.

4th line will be a nightmare and a return to a line that can't be trusted more than a few minutes per game. Shawn Thornton has never been a good hockey player, but has been hidden in depth minutes on Boston (whose 4th line was vastly overrated to begin with, way inferior to Boyle-Moore-Dorsett/Carcillo). Carcilo was fine with Moore and Boyle, but if we replace on of them with Thornton that line will be overwhelmed. Moore can't do it all by himself. I predict sub-45% possession, with only Moore over 20 points. Carcillo+Thornton wont reach 20 points put together.

The entire defence is a nightmare with no puck movers outside of McDonagh who will have to play 30 minutes a night for the team to be competitive.

Basically, we are back to 2010-11 level of competitiveness but with an a lot older team.
I said I could see Sather doing this going for size & big names up the middle
Thornton is a typical UFA tough guy Sather signing - over the hill and on his way down
Regarding 3rd line and why they would be worse with the same players is hard to understand your reasoning. Replacing Stralman on 2nd pairing and McIlrath/Diaz (or Allen) in instead on the 3rd pair is not by any means a massive downgrade. Some yes. But hardly massive
4th line - Thornton instead of Boyle there hardly makes that line a nightmare. J Staal would be in on PK instead of Boyle...
Again - defence is hardly changed with a SC appearence but you label it as a nightmare. Whatever

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Old
06-19-2014, 07:43 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I said I could see Sather doing this going for size & big names up the middle
Thornton is a typical UFA tough guy Sather signing - over the hill and on his way down
Regarding 3rd line and why they would be worse with the same players is hard to understand your reasoning. Replacing Stralman on 2nd pairing and McIlrath/Diaz (or Allen) in instead on the 3rd pair is not by any means a massive downgrade. Some yes. But hardly massive
4th line - Thornton instead of Boyle there hardly makes that line a nightmare. J Staal would be in on PK instead of Boyle...
Again - defence is hardly changed with a SC appearence but you label it as a nightmare. Whatever
Losing Stralman is a massive downgrade and that roster is an abomination.

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Old
06-19-2014, 07:45 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I said I could see Sather doing this going for size & big names up the middle
Thornton is a typical UFA tough guy Sather signing - over the hill and on his way down
Regarding 3rd line and why they would be worse with the same players is hard to understand your reasoning. Replacing Stralman on 2nd pairing and McIlrath/Diaz (or Allen) in instead on the 3rd pair is not by any means a massive downgrade. Some yes. But hardly massive
4th line - Thornton instead of Boyle there hardly makes that line a nightmare. J Staal would be in on PK instead of Boyle...
Again - defence is hardly changed with a SC appearence but you label it as a nightmare. Whatever
I think you're scenario is really good actually. that makes us real strong up the middle and gives us more bite. 3 Staal brothets on one team intrgues me alot.

I didn't know that fans view Stralman as irreplaceable now...

Good job.

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06-19-2014, 07:46 AM
  #25
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I'd actually love Joe Thornton on this team. I just wouldn't give up anything of value to get him. Therein lies the conundrum.

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