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Old
07-12-2014, 12:58 PM
  #726
CanucksSayEh
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
You don't think Bergeron is as important to the Bruins as Toews is to the Blackhawks?
Almost, BOS does have another good C. Chicago has, Richards. Im about as big a Bergeron and Toes hater as it gets anyway.

Ill take Kes @ 5 over all of em if we talkin player-contracts, except Kane. Ill pay that guy his 10.

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Old
07-12-2014, 03:47 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by CanucksSayEh View Post
Almost, BOS does have another good C. Chicago has, Richards. Im about as big a Bergeron and Toes hater as it gets anyway.

Ill take Kes @ 5 over all of em if we talkin player-contracts, except Kane. Ill pay that guy his 10.
Bergeron at 6.5 is better then Kesler at 5.

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07-12-2014, 07:57 PM
  #728
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Bergeron at 6.5 is awesome and every team would take him with that contract over 99% of other players.

Stanley Cup Playoffs, pick your lineup.

I take Patrice first every time.
The dude is magic in the post-season.

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Old
07-12-2014, 08:08 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Boston's system is a huge factor in all bruins lessened point totals.
Yes and I've stated that before, but Bergeron isn't really close to putting up the same type of consistent offense as Toews post concussion. If he never got Concussed I think Bergeron would've had a few 80-90 point seasons under his belt.

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07-12-2014, 08:22 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Derp Kassian View Post
Yes and I've stated that before, but Bergeron isn't really close to putting up the same type of consistent offense as Toews post concussion. If he never got Concussed I think Bergeron would've had a few 80-90 point seasons under his belt.
Toews plays in a system that encourages far more offense as you've acknowledged, but he also usually plays much more (three of the las five years he's averaged nearly three minutes more per game) and he has guys like Keith and Kane moving the puck around, on the Bruins the best puck mover may be Krejci and there's nobody comparable to Keith on that blueline.

It probably accounts for a big chunk of that discrepancy.

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Old
07-12-2014, 09:38 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by canuck4life16 View Post
Patrick Beregeron 6.5 million for 8 year.......huge discount compare to Toews and Kane

Craig Custance ‏@CraigCustance 57s
Bruins announce eight-year contract extension for Patrice Bergeron. Annual cap hit of $6.5 million.
https://twitter.com/CraigCustance/st...92980444741634
Bergeron is 3 years older and not as offensive as Toews is.

Both guys are very important to their teams but Toews is leaned on as the number 1 center on his team, Beregeron has a much different role and has Krecji there as well.

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Old
07-12-2014, 09:48 PM
  #732
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The Toews/Kanes Contracts is to much.

How can you build a team around those two with 21million going to two players..

It's going to be fun to watch Chicago dealing with upcoming contracts.

Next season Chicago has already spent $65,757,628. With 3 Dmen, 10 forwards signed.. Even if the cap goes up to 71 million... it will be tough

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Old
07-12-2014, 09:52 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble View Post
The Toews/Kanes Contracts is to much.

How can you build a team around those two with 21million going to two players..

It's going to be fun to watch Chicago dealing with upcoming contracts.

Next season Chicago has already spent $65,757,628. With 3 Dmen, 10 forwards signed.. Even if the cap goes up to 71 million... it will be tough
Most observers agree that the Cap will be going up steadily in the coming years.

Even with the strain for the 15 season, they have enough good young players and older players to trade (Hossa/Sharp) to reload and carry on.

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:16 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Most observers agree that the Cap will be going up steadily in the coming years.

Even with the strain for the 15 season, they have enough good young players and older players to trade (Hossa/Sharp) to reload and carry on.
This.

Exactly.

People tend to forget that high end players used to make much, much more before the salary cap.

Peter Forsberg made made $11M in 2004.

Joe Sakic made $7.9M 15 years ago.

Kane and Toews will be bargains in 5 years.

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:38 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat Bounce View Post
This.

Exactly.

People tend to forget that high end players used to make much, much more before the salary cap.

Peter Forsberg made made $11M in 2004.

Joe Sakic made $7.9M 15 years ago.

Kane and Toews will be bargains in 5 years.
Who cares , we're talking about their cap crunch in the next year or two. And Chicago has two big $ players now.
Should be interesting to see how they get under the cap.


And I'm not sure 10.5 mil is going to be a "bargain" in 5 years, it'll still be a top 5 contract in the league

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:43 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
Who cares , we're talking about their cap crunch in the next year or two. And Chicago has two big $ players now.
Should be interesting to see how they get under the cap.


And I'm not sure 10.5 mil is going to be a "bargain" in 5 years
The Hawks have no "cap crunch" in 2014/15 and it's expected the cap will hit $90M in the next 5 years.

There may be some issues in 2015/16 but if the cap rises to $75M as expected it will be relatively simple for Chicago to deal with.

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:50 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat Bounce View Post
The Hawks have no "cap crunch" in 2014/15 and it's expected the cap will hit $90M in the next 5 years.

There may be some issues in 2015/16 but if the cap rises to $75M as expected it will be relatively simple for Chicago to deal with.
It was expected to go to 72-74m this year......
Who knows where it'll actually be in 5 years.

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:50 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
Who cares , we're talking about their cap crunch in the next year or two. And Chicago has two big $ players now.
Should be interesting to see how they get under the cap.


And I'm not sure 10.5 mil is going to be a "bargain" in 5 years, it'll still be a top 5 contract in the league
really doubt the last part but we can check back in 18-19 so see if either Kane or Toews are still top 5 Cap hits.

Sure there is a cap crunch in the next year or 2 but many teams are in the same situation and the Hawks have an extremely solid core group and young star in Saad as well.

Not to mention TT who is an outstanding prospect.

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Old
07-12-2014, 10:52 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
really doubt the last part but we can check back in 18-19 so see if either Kane or Toews are still top 5 Cap hits.

Sure there is a cap crunch in the next year or 2 but many teams are in the same situation and the Hawks have an extremely solid core group and young star in Saad as well.

Not to mention TT who is an outstanding prospect.
Okay top 10, 12 whatever... The point was it's not going to be a bargain.
There's not many players in the league who will get +10m

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:00 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
It was expected to go to 72-74m this year......
Who knows where it'll actually be in 5 years.
The NHLPA decided to NOT include the new Rogers TV deal in the 2014/15 cap.

When it is included in 2015/16, the cap will take a big jump.

James Mirtle of the Globe and Mail did an analysis of the upward movement of the cap BEFORE the new Rogers deal and came up with an estimate of $90M by 2021/22..

With the new TV deal in place it will most likely be even higher.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle7029575/

You'll note in Mirtle's estimates that cap is already well ahead of his projections.

If the cap is even as high as $90M in 5 years, the Kane/Toews deals will be less as a percentage of the cap than their current deals.

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:03 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
Okay top 10, 12 whatever... The point was it's not going to be a bargain.
There's not many players in the league who will get +10m
Sure there are.

Stamkos' contract is up in 2 more seasons.

What do you think he'll get paid on his next contract?

There going to be many others.

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:13 PM
  #742
Hardyvan123
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
Okay top 10, 12 whatever...


well top 5 is alot different than top 10,12 or even whatever right?


Quote:
The point was it's not going to be a bargain.
sure and by a strict definition none of the top paid players are bargains either so what exactly was your point then?

Quote:
There's not many players in the league who will get +10m
Well next season there are 26 guys hauling in at a cap hit of 7 million plus, with expected revenue increase there could be that amount, or more making 10 million plus in 5 years time one would think.

Anyways I'm sure the Hawks dealt with the contracts in part as a thanks for the 2 SC that both guys were very important in and they are the face of the Hawks franchise.

People will quibble on the "value" of their cap hits on preconceived notions all over the map just as they would on the Sedins "value" at 7 million per for the next 4 seasons (as an example)

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:24 PM
  #743
Dead Cat Bounce
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
well top 5 is alot different than top 10,12 or even whatever right?




sure and by a strict definition none of the top paid players are bargains either so what exactly was your point then?



Well next season there are 26 guys hauling in at a cap hit of 7 million plus, with expected revenue increase there could be that amount, or more making 10 million plus in 5 years time one would think.

Anyways I'm sure the Hawks dealt with the contracts in part as a thanks for the 2 SC that both guys were very important in and they are the face of the Hawks franchise.

People will quibble on the "value" of their cap hits on preconceived notions all over the map just as they would on the Sedins "value" at 7 million per for the next 4 seasons (as an example)
The high end young players now on ELC's or their second contracts are going to make out like bandits on their next contracts. .

Players like Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Tyler Seguin, Matt Duchene and Gabriel Landeskog are already in the $5-7M range and will get huge paydays when their contracts expire.

Interesting you mention the Sedins since their $7M contracts will likely be second line money in 2-3 years.

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:26 PM
  #744
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My point was and still is even in 5 years that's not going to be a bargain. I can see maybe 8 players getting over 10mil.

And I don't think yzerman will give stamkos more than 10.

And I think 7 for the sedins wasn't a great value.
Bergeron is good value.
Legwand is good value
Tanev is good value
Etc
Etc

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:27 PM
  #745
Dead Cat Bounce
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Originally Posted by VanillaCoke View Post
My point was and still is even in 5 years that's not going to be a bargain. I can see maybe 8 players getting over 10mil.

And I don't think yzerman will give stamkos more than 10.

And I think 7 for the sedins wasn't a great value.
Bergeron is good value.
Legwand is good value
Tanev is good value
Etc
Etc
You're looking backwards not forwards.

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Old
07-12-2014, 11:35 PM
  #746
VanillaCoke
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat Bounce View Post
You're looking backwards not forwards.
I'm actually looking slantways.

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Old
07-13-2014, 05:31 AM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat Bounce View Post
The NHLPA decided to NOT include the new Rogers TV deal in the 2014/15 cap.

When it is included in 2015/16, the cap will take a big jump.

James Mirtle of the Globe and Mail did an analysis of the upward movement of the cap BEFORE the new Rogers deal and came up with an estimate of $90M by 2021/22..

With the new TV deal in place it will most likely be even higher.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle7029575/

You'll note in Mirtle's estimates that cap is already well ahead of his projections.

If the cap is even as high as $90M in 5 years, the Kane/Toews deals will be less as a percentage of the cap than their current deals.
I thought I read that they included a portion of the Rogers deal to inflate the cap a bit more this year when they realized how bad the cap crunch would be.

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Old
07-13-2014, 12:03 PM
  #748
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Possesion is a tricky thing. Proven production is another, Toews and Kane are far more consistent - and skilled for that matter. I don't know if they're 3.5 mil a year better, but there's a gap for sure. Bergeron is not in the Kopitar tier, either.
Check out his spot on the list:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

They play different minutes too at ES. At 6.5M it's terrific value for what he brings.

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Old
07-13-2014, 01:25 PM
  #749
DoubleTrouble
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Most observers agree that the Cap will be going up steadily in the coming years.

Even with the strain for the 15 season, they have enough good young players and older players to trade (Hossa/Sharp) to reload and carry on.

I don't think many teams will want Hossa contract... Sharp yes but that would be a big blow to Chicago to lose him.

Don't get me wrong they needed to keep Toews/Kane but they should have taken shorter contracts and gave Chicago a home town discount so they could continue to build great teams and win Cups.

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Old
07-13-2014, 01:32 PM
  #750
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I see Schroeder signed with the Wild for 2 years

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