HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Who Will the Rangers Target At the Center Position this Summer?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2014, 10:23 PM
  #301
Inferno
Registered User
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Question:

If Brassard was looking for a 4 year deal at 4.5 million per season and Grabovski was looking for the same, would you look into moving Brassard and signing Grabovski and then trading a Brassard for a cheaper, bigger, younger center?
id probably sign them both to that deal and make the numbers work elsewhere.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:26 PM
  #302
ncmike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
OK, but Stepan is close to Bergeron, where Brassard is a clear step behind Krejci. We need someone else.
Granted. But you slot someone just like Stepan into the 2c and the team is fine. Let's give miller a chance to either push Brassard into performing better or taking the spot himself. Just wish Sather keeps the checkbook in his pocket. Open it for Stamkos next year.

ncmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:28 PM
  #303
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 3,569
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
That's my point. The team can win even though Stepan is not a true #1. You don't need a team with a few superstars, you need a TEAM.
Which we DID have this season. But it's (likely) weaker with JT Miller replacing Richards... I like Grabovski as a realistic option... Legwand? Ermmm maybe... someone mad a really good case for Goc, now that I think of it... but Goc...? Just Goc??? That'd be kinda... Goc.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:35 PM
  #304
Inferno
Registered User
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,127
vCash: 500
seems to me like some people are trying to argue semantics.

I personally agree with -31-

There are 30 #1 centers in the league.

I'd say there are mabye 15 "Franchise" centers in the league.

I think thats the distinguishment ppl need to make.

Stepan is a #1 center. He's not a franchise center.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:39 PM
  #305
ncmike
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
seems to me like some people are trying to argue semantics.

I personally agree with -31-

There are 30 #1 centers in the league.

I'd say there are mabye 15 "Franchise" centers in the league.

I think thats the distinguishment ppl need to make.

Stepan is a #1 center. He's not a franchise center.
Stepan is not elite, but you can win with him being your #1.

Eli Manning has won 2 Super Bowls, Peyton has won 1. Who is the better QB?

ncmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:39 PM
  #306
BarbaraAlphanse
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
What does it matter? This is a team sport. Individual achievements should hypothetically mean squat. As long as the team wins, everyone should be happy.

Nash was a probably a top 30 LW at some point. Didn't stop the invisible barriers and luck to stop him from producing at a productive rate this year. Could have been the difference between SCF appearance and cup win.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:45 PM
  #307
Inferno
Registered User
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
Stepan is not elite, but you can win with him being your #1.

Eli Manning has won 2 Super Bowls, Peyton has won 1. Who is the better QB?
i prefer not to compare football to hockey...kinda different sports in the way they are played.

i too think you *can* win with Stepan as your #1 center...but I don't think it's ideal.

i think if you can get either 3 #2 centers like we had last year, or get a true #1 in front of him and Brassard it just slots everyone better.

Just, hypothetically, which lineup do you like better...


Kreider - Thornton - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MSL
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Fasth - Lindberg - Miller (for cap sake)


or


Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Fasth - Moore - Dorsett

both coudl work

I just think the top set is MUCH stronger than the bottom.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:48 PM
  #308
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 3,569
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
seems to me like some people are trying to argue semantics.

I personally agree with -31-

There are 30 #1 centers in the league.

I'd say there are mabye 15 "Franchise" centers in the league.

I think thats the distinguishment ppl need to make.

Stepan is a #1 center. He's not a franchise center.
So Holik was once a 1C? Erik friggin' Christensen?

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 10:52 PM
  #309
Inferno
Registered User
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
So Holik was once a 1C? Erik friggin' Christensen?
for our team...yeah...sadly.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 11:06 PM
  #310
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 3,569
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
I see the logic, but disagree... they SERVED as 1Cs... Ser vs. Estar.

BobMarleyNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2014, 11:25 PM
  #311
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
 
Glen Sathers Cigar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New York
Posts: 7,282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
Granted. But you slot someone just like Stepan into the 2c and the team is fine. Let's give miller a chance to either push Brassard into performing better or taking the spot himself. Just wish Sather keeps the checkbook in his pocket. Open it for Stamkos next year.
Is there any possibility Stamkos sniffs free agency? In today's league it seems ALL superstars are signed to extensions. Then we see some ask to be traded when they feel themselves getting older and want a chance to win if they don't think their team is there (Nash, Spezza as examples).

Plus Tampa is going to be a ridiculous team in the near future. They have so much young talent coming up, I don't see why Stamkos who is the face of the franchise would want to leave. One can dream though.

Glen Sathers Cigar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 03:18 AM
  #312
Cake or Death
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Oh cool, the weekly iteration of what is a true 1C

I truly do not think the 1C label matters much these days. The Pens, for example, have two elite centers and haven't fared too well in the playoffs. In today's cap world, it seems to be more about fitting the right puzzle pieces in place to create effective depth and cohesion than the old line one through four mode. Now, your top LW may be on your 'third' line and your top RW may need to be on line 'two.'

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 04:38 AM
  #313
Ail
Dear Friend Pape
 
Ail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mysidia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 26,432
vCash: 500
I see three distinctions, personally:

1. Acting #1: A 1st line center by default for nothing other than the fact they play on the teams first line. Skill level is irrelevant.

2. Legitimate #1 center: A 1st line center who would be one on any team discounting their own 1st line centers who may be more skilled. Must possess the skill level you would expect of a 1C, something that is highly debatable. (Stepan goes here.)

3. Franchise/Star #1 center: A 1st line center who could be the #1 center on even the best teams and plays an elite game at least offensively. Has an elite level of skill, considered a perennial all-star, could win the Art Ross/Richard any year in their prime. (Crosby, Getzlaf, Thornton, Stamkos, Malkin, Kopitar, Giroux etc.)

I never see Stepan getting to #3. He is definitely a 1st line center all things considered, however.

Ail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 04:45 AM
  #314
Amazing Kreiderman
@StatBoy_Steven
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vienna
Country: Austria
Posts: 18,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncmike View Post
Stepan is not elite, but you can win with him being your #1.

Eli Manning has won 2 Super Bowls, Peyton has won 1. Who is the better QB?
Russell Wilson

__________________
"You can't score if you pass,"

- Vince Pedrie
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJqAEM4DVoE/
Amazing Kreiderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 07:08 AM
  #315
SupersonicMonkey*
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i prefer not to compare football to hockey...kinda different sports in the way they are played.

i too think you *can* win with Stepan as your #1 center...but I don't think it's ideal.

i think if you can get either 3 #2 centers like we had last year, or get a true #1 in front of him and Brassard it just slots everyone better.

Just, hypothetically, which lineup do you like better...


Kreider - Thornton - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MSL
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Fasth - Lindberg - Miller (for cap sake)


or


Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Fasth - Moore - Dorsett

both coudl work

I just think the top set is MUCH stronger than the bottom.
lineup #2.

The 4th line in lineup #1 is a non-factor and would get manhandled, making us a 3 line team, and probably running out of gas well before the Conference Final. Plus, Thornton means we lose one or both of Staal and Stralman. 1000% don't want to lose Stralman.

I'd rather not have a big-ticket #1 center and have 4 lines and 3 pairs that the coach trusts to give a regular shift.

Also, don't want Fast anywhere near this team if we are looking to contend. I like the kid, but we are lacking size and strength as it is, replacing Boyle with Fast is a huge downgrade IMO. Lindberg is a downgrade from Moore. I don't believe Moore is looking to break the bank, so keeping him should be a priority.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 07:44 AM
  #316
Thesensation19*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,561
vCash: 500
They already targeted Spezza and Thornton.

Both are going for similar returns... Spezza is a definite out and Thornton is a maybe.

Ottawa said they will not trade Spezza to the East and St.L and Ana are both highly interested anyway.

If I were San Jose, I would not trade Thornton. He has a solid contract, 3 years left. Still a good player. A top 2 center, really a #1. A large guy who can play in the west and knows your team hands down. There are many changes the Sharks should do but JT is not a must.

Because of their high return request, the high salary cap of Thornton and the the fact that we have a large amount of centers already... I do not see the Rangers doing this.

Paul Stastny is apparently getting a big contract from Colorado and he said hell take less. Im glad, I am sure he is overrated and we would have overpaid.

Ryan O'reily is intruiging because I am sure we can get him for 6 million for a few years and hes ridiculously young.

Rangers have stated they will likely just keep the centers they have.

Thesensation19* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:03 AM
  #317
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ail View Post
I see three distinctions, personally:

1. Acting #1: A 1st line center by default for nothing other than the fact they play on the teams first line. Skill level is irrelevant.

2. Legitimate #1 center: A 1st line center who would be one on any team discounting their own 1st line centers who may be more skilled. Must possess the skill level you would expect of a 1C, something that is highly debatable. (Stepan goes here.)

3. Franchise/Star #1 center: A 1st line center who could be the #1 center on even the best teams and plays an elite game at least offensively. Has an elite level of skill, considered a perennial all-star, could win the Art Ross/Richard any year in their prime. (Crosby, Getzlaf, Thornton, Stamkos, Malkin, Kopitar, Giroux etc.)

I never see Stepan getting to #3. He is definitely a 1st line center all things considered, however.
Pretty much this.

Classifications like #1 center, top-six forward, #1 defensemen, top-four defensemen, #1 goalie are set by how many jobs there are in the league. In a thirty team league, there are 180 top-six forward spots, so I would think it's reasonable to say there are 180 top-six caliber forwards in the league. There will be some who play third line on deep teams, and some non-top-six caliber players that play in that role on weaker teams.

Of course the standard for these classifications change when the number of teams in the league changes. Do you really think that those growing up in the Original Six days have the same standard for a top-line center as you do?

Of course not. This obscure, undefinable (frankly, arbitrary) measure of a #1 center that's been developed would be a lot different if it wasn't developed watching a 26-30 team league.

If you want develop a standard that's based on ideals and not practicality, that's fine, but I would pick a title that doesn't suggest a purely mathematical standard.

Thirty One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:04 AM
  #318
Thirty One
k.
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i prefer not to compare football to hockey...kinda different sports in the way they are played.

i too think you *can* win with Stepan as your #1 center...but I don't think it's ideal.

i think if you can get either 3 #2 centers like we had last year, or get a true #1 in front of him and Brassard it just slots everyone better.

Just, hypothetically, which lineup do you like better...


Kreider - Thornton - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MSL
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Fasth - Lindberg - Miller (for cap sake)


or


Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Fasth - Moore - Dorsett

both coudl work

I just think the top set is MUCH stronger than the bottom.
Have you run the numbers on that first one? Looks like you would have to run out almost no defense to me.

Thirty One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:24 AM
  #319
Nash Money
Registered User
 
Nash Money's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 832
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
i prefer not to compare football to hockey...kinda different sports in the way they are played.

i too think you *can* win with Stepan as your #1 center...but I don't think it's ideal.

i think if you can get either 3 #2 centers like we had last year, or get a true #1 in front of him and Brassard it just slots everyone better.

Just, hypothetically, which lineup do you like better...


Kreider - Thornton - Nash
Hagelin - Stepan - MSL
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Fasth - Lindberg - Miller (for cap sake)


or


Kreider - Stepan - Nash
Pouliot - Brassard - MZA
Hagelin - Miller - MSL
Fasth - Moore - Dorsett

both coudl work

I just think the top set is MUCH stronger than the bottom.
So Thornton/Lindberg or Moore/Dorsett. Think about the back end though and what you're giving up to get Thornton. Also, $$$.

Nash Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:37 AM
  #320
Hunter Gathers
Love the Bomb
 
Hunter Gathers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ/NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 103,902
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Hunter Gathers
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Classifications like #1 center, top-six forward, #1 defensemen, top-four defensemen, #1 goalie are set by how many jobs there are in the league.
No, they are subjective interpretations of the skill of a player. Whenever you hear those terms being discussed during a game, by the media, etc. they are discussing the skill of a player relative to the other players of the same position. I've never heard anyone make the lazy argument that 30 = 30, BRO. Just because there are 30 teams does not mean that there are 30 #1 centers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
In a thirty team league, there are 180 top-six forward spots, so I would think it's reasonable to say there are 180 top-six caliber forwards in the league. There will be some who play third line on deep teams, and some non-top-six caliber players that play in that role on weaker teams.
It's likely more reasonable to say that there are 180 top six players (compared to saying that there are 30 #1 centers) considering the skill level to be a top six player is highly variable and all over the map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Of course the standard for these classifications change when the number of teams in the league changes. Do you really think that those growing up in the Original Six days have the same standard for a top-line center as you do?
The standard wasn't the same since the game wasn't the same. There certainly weren't six number one centers in the league, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If you want develop a standard that's based on ideals and not practicality, that's fine, but I would pick a title that doesn't suggest a purely mathematical standard.
It doesn't suggest that since the title has had a subjective meaning since it was first used.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
My MS Excel crashed so I couldn't watch the game. - ReggieDunlop68
Hunter Gathers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:44 AM
  #321
RangerBoy
HOPE & CHANGE
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 37,306
vCash: 500
Thornton doesn't want to leave San Jose. Marleau doesn't want to leave San Jose. Craig Custance wrote Thornton today. Nick Cotsonika wrote about Marleau.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 10:46 AM
  #322
Inferno
Registered User
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Have you run the numbers on that first one? Looks like you would have to run out almost no defense to me.
theyd have to hold salary..only way to make it work. i figure staal would be traded for him.

Inferno is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 11:04 AM
  #323
Chief Ranger
Moderator
It's Just Pain
 
Chief Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 6,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Thornton doesn't want to leave San Jose. Marleau doesn't want to leave San Jose. Craig Custance wrote Thornton today. Nick Cotsonika wrote about Marleau.
I probably wouldn't want to leave San Jose either.

Chief Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 11:25 AM
  #324
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,488
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
theyd have to hold salary..only way to make it work. i figure staal would be traded for him.
So San Jose would have to retain salary on Thornton and take back Staal who is 1 year away from UFA? Doesn't make much sense for them.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2014, 11:25 AM
  #325
Jim Morrison
Registered User
 
Jim Morrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Thornton doesn't want to leave San Jose. Marleau doesn't want to leave San Jose. Craig Custance wrote Thornton today. Nick Cotsonika wrote about Marleau.
I guarantee you both will be gone before the season starts.

Jim Morrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.