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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

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Old
06-24-2014, 01:32 AM
  #426
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Question for the CBA experts. When a team agrees to pick up a portion of the contract when they trade a player, are they only picking up the salary for the first year or through the rest of the contract?
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Rest of the contract.
This is correct.

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06-24-2014, 06:06 AM
  #427
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When Boyle leaves, would anyone be interested in Komarov? Good PKer. Pain in the ass. Good skater
Very.

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06-24-2014, 06:20 AM
  #428
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Rick Nash has 4 goals in 37 playoff games for the Rangers. Brooks had a stat last week

Quote:
RW Rick Nash: $7.8 million per through 2017-18 for the winger with a no-move clause through 2014-15 and a no-trade thereafter. Despite his lack of playoff production, Nash has recorded .431 goals per game in the regular season since joining the Rangers (47 goals in 109 games), 13th best in the NHL over the last two years.
http://nypost.com/2014/06/15/breakin...eason-options/

Nash will score during the regular season. He will help them make the playoffs. Very streaky.

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06-24-2014, 06:29 AM
  #429
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How much will Komarov go for and what's his game like? Never really saw him play before.

Edit: Looks like he us a RFA. What would the Leafs want in return?

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06-24-2014, 06:42 AM
  #430
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If I were to guess of the UFA's only Dominic Moore and Benoit Pouliot come back.

Stralman will have to take less than he'll get as a UFA to stay here. The $4mil per. I'm guessing that he moves on. He'll get more than that.

Boyle wanting a bigger role and where to put him in the salary range. These are problems. Boyle has little playmaking ability--I don't see him as a top 9. He is really, really good at what he does for the Rangers. I would like him back badly but I don't think it's happening. There are going to be teams looking at him and I wouldn't be shocked if he got a $3.5-4 mil per deal.

Pouliot's been an enigma throughout his career. I really don't think he's going to get big offers. At least some teams are going to (fairly or unfairly) look at him as a product of his line mates. He had a good situation here last year. IMO it's best to prove he can keep his career on track. Don't see him as a long term signing either.

Moore wants to be here--plain and simple and about all it might take is a a very modest pay raise.

Carcillo I think would want to come back. He won't be expensive wherever he goes but not sure how the Rangers looked at his season ending suspension and he's rather low on the priority list.

Diaz--I don't see a big deal here. I wouldn't shell out serious money for a guy that very likely will wind up a 7th defenseman if the Rangers sign him again. There are other UFA defensemen out there that I'd prefer giving a shot pretty much in the same salary range. If Stralman does leave I don't see Diaz as more than a stop gap solution.

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06-24-2014, 07:18 AM
  #431
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Stralman, IMO, should be priority #1. Just looking back at Staal, i don't believe he has the foot speed, doesn't move the puck quick enough, to play in Vigneault's system moving forward. I distinctly recall the Rangers getting hemmed in their own end as a direct result of Staal's failure to be able to move the puck and/or win foot races to pucks.

Stralman has blossomed here, into a legitimate top 4, arguably top pair defenseman based on his possession stats.

Stralman won't cost as much as Staal. Moving forward with Vigneault, Stralman is the guy to keep.

Move Staal and upgrade the center position. Find a cheap veteran to fill in on the left side.

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06-24-2014, 07:32 AM
  #432
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Stralman, IMO, should be priority #1. Just looking back at Staal, i don't believe he has the foot speed, doesn't move the puck quick enough, to play in Vigneault's system moving forward. I distinctly recall the Rangers getting hemmed in their own end as a direct result of Staal's failure to be able to move the puck and/or win foot races to pucks.

Stralman has blossomed here, into a legitimate top 4, arguably top pair defenseman based on his possession stats.

Stralman won't cost as much as Staal. Moving forward with Vigneault, Stralman is the guy to keep.

Move Staal and upgrade the center position. Find a cheap veteran to fill in on the left side.
It's weird - I recall many occasions during which Stralman was unable to get the puck out of the zone and Staal helping out. Thought on a few occasions that Stralman was overmatched against top competition. And by recall, I recall thinking that, so I cannot really give specific examples. Thought he had tough times along the boards and in front of the net. In the open ice, he was much better (although a couple years ago was prone to the pass up the middle; that seems to have been cleared). Did think Staal moved the puck well and pinched well, albeit awkwardly. Not saying you're wrong, just funny how we saw it differently. Perhaps I didn't watch enough games, or pay close enough attention, or are just seeing games through #1 pick glasses.

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06-24-2014, 07:50 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by ElectrocutedCat View Post
Stralman, IMO, should be priority #1. Just looking back at Staal, i don't believe he has the foot speed, doesn't move the puck quick enough, to play in Vigneault's system moving forward. I distinctly recall the Rangers getting hemmed in their own end as a direct result of Staal's failure to be able to move the puck and/or win foot races to pucks.

Stralman has blossomed here, into a legitimate top 4, arguably top pair defenseman based on his possession stats.

Stralman won't cost as much as Staal. Moving forward with Vigneault, Stralman is the guy to keep.

Move Staal and upgrade the center position. Find a cheap veteran to fill in on the left side.
I have to agree. Stralmans Corsi and Fenwick ratings are some of the best in the league for defensman. Elite level. That fits right into what AV wants.

If you can get the right return for Staal id rather lose him than Stralman, especially given his injury history. I really hope Stralman resigns. Hes one of those players that most fans wont miss until hes gone and then wont realize it was him that kept a lot of it together on defense. But i wouldnt mind keeping both if possible, and solidifying the center position.

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06-24-2014, 07:53 AM
  #434
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Rick Nash has 4 goals in 37 playoff games for the Rangers. Brooks had a stat last week



http://nypost.com/2014/06/15/breakin...eason-options/

Nash will score during the regular season. He will help them make the playoffs. Very streaky.
Yup. Can't deny his contribution during the regular season.

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06-24-2014, 08:01 AM
  #435
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When Boyle leaves, would anyone be interested in Komarov? Good PKer. Pain in the ass. Good skater
Nvm. He's 5'10. Thought he was only 5'5. I'm concerned about our size though. Loosing Boyle and pouliot will definitely hurt us in the size department. It was evident in the kings series that their size (not to be confused with toughness), was a problem for us.

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06-24-2014, 08:09 AM
  #436
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The reason our "third" line was so successful was beause Pouliot actually has the ability to put pucks in the back of the net. I love Boyle, but he has literally no ability to puck the put in the net, except a few times by chance.

how exactly will that line benefit from having Boyle on the wing if their production will go down ?

Disclaimer: I really, *really* want Boyle back on this team next season, he's a stud in his current role.. its unfortunate he has declared he has no interest in continuing in that position
How about the fact Pouliot was also a dolt that hurt the team with some of the dumbest penalties imaginable? Theres pro's and con's for both players. Any added offense from Pouliot was mitigated by what a flake he is, IMO.

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06-24-2014, 08:11 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by ElectrocutedCat View Post
Stralman, IMO, should be priority #1. Just looking back at Staal, i don't believe he has the foot speed, doesn't move the puck quick enough, to play in Vigneault's system moving forward. I distinctly recall the Rangers getting hemmed in their own end as a direct result of Staal's failure to be able to move the puck and/or win foot races to pucks.

Stralman has blossomed here, into a legitimate top 4, arguably top pair defenseman based on his possession stats.

Stralman won't cost as much as Staal. Moving forward with Vigneault, Stralman is the guy to keep.

Move Staal and upgrade the center position. Find a cheap veteran to fill in on the left side.
Oh man. You had me until the last sentence, which is really just glossing over the loss of Staal. Which, IMO, would be a huge problem that "a cheap veteran" wouldnt be able to solve.

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06-24-2014, 08:12 AM
  #438
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Yup. Can't deny his contribution during the regular season.
How much longer can the Rangers pay a guy almost $8M a year to score goals on January nights in Buffalo?

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06-24-2014, 08:23 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Rick Nash has 4 goals in 37 playoff games for the Rangers. Brooks had a stat last week



http://nypost.com/2014/06/15/breakin...eason-options/

Nash will score during the regular season. He will help them make the playoffs. Very streaky.
So deal him at the deadline?

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06-24-2014, 08:24 AM
  #440
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How much longer can the Rangers pay a guy almost $8M a year to score goals on January nights in Buffalo?
he's here until it's determined that they can get a better player for the cost of his cap hit if he were to be bought out. Guess if they had a guy today they were to sign for 8 years at about $5.3MM who is a viable replacement, they come out even on that. That's a for instance, as opposed to me saying here's a solution. And that should be evaluating each season. Next season if there is someone who can be signed for 6 years at about $5.2MM who would be better, perhaps you do it. Yes, it sucks he doesn't show up and score in the playoffs, but right now it cannot be denied that he has helped this team get to the playoffs. Further, his presence does help others thrive on the ice as he is often a focus of other teams, which gives a guy like, say, St. Louis to face less competition, or it opens the ice for his linemates. Again, that in and of itself isn't worth $7.9MM, especially comparatively speaking, but you need to really ask if someone else available where it makes economical sense given the cap hit and who can come here without giving up assets.

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06-24-2014, 08:33 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by ElectrocutedCat View Post
Stralman, IMO, should be priority #1. Just looking back at Staal, i don't believe he has the foot speed, doesn't move the puck quick enough, to play in Vigneault's system moving forward. I distinctly recall the Rangers getting hemmed in their own end as a direct result of Staal's failure to be able to move the puck and/or win foot races to pucks.

Stralman has blossomed here, into a legitimate top 4, arguably top pair defenseman based on his possession stats.

Stralman won't cost as much as Staal. Moving forward with Vigneault, Stralman is the guy to keep.

Move Staal and upgrade the center position. Find a cheap veteran to fill in on the left side.
Priority No. 1 or not if Anton's thinking about getting the best deal possible he's going to see what the open market has to offer. Should the Rangers just decide to open up the check book for him and let him right whatever number he wants?

The answer is no and IMO $4 mil per for 4/5 years is about as far as I'd be willing to go. With respect for all the gaudy corsi and fenwick numbers--McDonagh and Girardi always got the toughest assignments. They always got more minutes--and without the injuries Staal would be right up there with those two. To me we're almost in the same place with Stralman that we were with Callahan--a guy wanting more than he's worth to stay knowing that he'll probably get more than he's worth if he goes somewhere else. These are market values but market values aren't always realistic. A look at what Clowe and Clarkson scored last year is about all the proof we need of that.

There is such a thing as fit and that is something that Stralman should keep in mind. He has good chemistry playing on a pair with Staal. He's not likely to have nearly as good a fit with his new team. The corsi numbers have also come at the expense of the offense he use to bring. A team paying between $5 and 6 mil per year is probably going to want more offense than the 1 goal and 13 points he put up this year. $4 mil per IMO is more than fair. He doesn't have the tenure here of either Girardi or Staal and he doesn't deserve to make more $ than McDonagh.

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06-24-2014, 08:37 AM
  #442
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How much longer can the Rangers pay a guy almost $8M a year to score goals on January nights in Buffalo?
This is absolutely what is the heart of the problem.

Who cares if he helps us make the playoffs if he "up and vanishes like a fart in the wind" once there?!?!

It does us no good to get production from a guy making 8M only to see that production dry up when we need it the most.

Literally the worst possible way of "contributing"

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06-24-2014, 08:39 AM
  #443
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he's here until it's determined that they can get a better player for the cost of his cap hit if he were to be bought out. Guess if they had a guy today they were to sign for 8 years at about $5.3MM who is a viable replacement, they come out even on that. That's a for instance, as opposed to me saying here's a solution. And that should be evaluating each season. Next season if there is someone who can be signed for 6 years at about $5.2MM who would be better, perhaps you do it. Yes, it sucks he doesn't show up and score in the playoffs, but right now it cannot be denied that he has helped this team get to the playoffs. Further, his presence does help others thrive on the ice as he is often a focus of other teams, which gives a guy like, say, St. Louis to face less competition, or it opens the ice for his linemates. Again, that in and of itself isn't worth $7.9MM, especially comparatively speaking, but you need to really ask if someone else available where it makes economical sense given the cap hit and who can come here without giving up assets.
I think the bolded is through no fault of his own. I just think the tight checking of the playoffs is kryptonite to his game. I dont know if it'll ever be turned around.

But yes, I agree with you Fletch. I dont think hes a detriment. Im not shouting from the rooftops to get rid of the guy. Hes still a valuable commodity to reach the playoffs. But you can't help but think how the finals may have been different if he was able to score a few more playoff goals.

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06-24-2014, 08:49 AM
  #444
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I think the bolded is through no fault of his own. I just think the tight checking of the playoffs is kryptonite to his game. I dont know if it'll ever be turned around.

But yes, I agree with you Fletch. I dont think hes a detriment. Im not shouting from the rooftops to get rid of the guy. Hes still a valuable commodity to reach the playoffs. But you can't help but think how the finals may have been different if he was able to score a few more playoff goals.
A big goal from him in either the first or second game of the Stanley Cup finals could have changed the complexion of the series, and when you pay a forward $7.8MM a year, or whatever he's being paid, you expect him to be the one who steps up. I agree. And if it's tight checking that's detrimental to his game, maybe the coach needs to change things up to either get him away from a pairing, or have a complement that will allow him to do what made him successful in the regular; if that is feasting on subpar defenses and goaltending, well, then I guess there isn't much that can be done.

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06-24-2014, 08:53 AM
  #445
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I think the bolded is through no fault of his own. I just think the tight checking of the playoffs is kryptonite to his game. I dont know if it'll ever be turned around.

But yes, I agree with you Fletch. I dont think hes a detriment. Im not shouting from the rooftops to get rid of the guy. Hes still a valuable commodity to reach the playoffs. But you can't help but think how the finals may have been different if he was able to score a few more playoff goals.
I dont know BRB. I have agreed with everything you have been saying regarding this team thus far this offseason. And I even agree with the majority of this post. But I think another problem for Nash's game in the playoffs is he doesnt have a good enough center who possesses the puck well enough to do more of the work. Like you said BRB the game gets tighter in the playoffs and he cant get away with the same plays Nash used in the regular season. Too many times Stepan and Kreider get a puck and they look to defer to Nash right away. You look at Gaborik with Kopitar...Kopitar holds onto the puck longer, does more of the work, carries through the neutral zone and into all areas of the opposing zone. Kopitar doesnt panic with the puck. It made it much easier for Gaborik to get open, do less work, grab garbage goals. Nash needs a center willing to do the work. I love Stepan but he just isnt that guy. He is more suited to be between St. Louis. MSL is faster than Nash. So if Step is going to distribute the puck like he likes to do with Kreider, MSL could have a step on the defender in the transition game where he can get behind the defense quicker OR it pushes the defense back on their heels more so their is more space in the neutral zone. With Nash the defenders are usually always in front of him with not a lot of space when Step distributes the puck.

Its why I like Joe Thornton. A big guy willing to hold onto the puck, hard to knock off of it, go into the corners and behind the net in the offensive zone. But I know he is an unlikely candidate.

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06-24-2014, 08:56 AM
  #446
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When BRB is content to not spit vitriol at a player who has not met expectations like Nash, that's when you KNOW it's time to back off.

Agreed that he's not a player we should just ditch for the sake of doing so.

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06-24-2014, 09:04 AM
  #447
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I dont know BRB. I have agreed with everything you have been saying regarding this team thus far this offseason. And I even agree with the majority of this post. But I think another problem for Nash's game in the playoffs is he doesnt have a good enough center who possesses the puck well enough to do more of the work. Like you said BRB the game gets tighter in the playoffs and he cant get away with the same plays Nash used in the regular season. Too many times Stepan and Kreider get a puck and they look to defer to Nash right away. You look at Gaborik with Kopitar...Kopitar holds onto the puck longer, does more of the work, carries through the neutral zone and into all areas of the opposing zone. Kopitar doesnt panic with the puck. It made it much easier for Gaborik to get open, do less work, grab garbage goals. Nash needs a center willing to do the work. I love Stepan but he just isnt that guy. He is more suited to be between St. Louis. MSL is faster than Nash. So if Step is going to distribute the puck like he likes to do with Kreider, MSL could have a step on the defender in the transition game where he can get behind the defense quicker OR it pushes the defense back on their heels more so their is more space in the neutral zone. With Nash the defenders are usually always in front of him with not a lot of space when Step distributes the puck.

Its why I like Joe Thornton. A big guy willing to hold onto the puck, hard to knock off of it, go into the corners and behind the net in the offensive zone. But I know he is an unlikely candidate.
Thats part of it too. I'd love to get a center in here with the playmaking skills to provide time and space to Nash.

That said, Nash has a top 10 cap hit in the game. With that sort of contract, you expect the guy to be able to create on his own in all situations. Unfortunately, thats not the reality here.

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06-24-2014, 09:08 AM
  #448
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I dont know BRB. I have agreed with everything you have been saying regarding this team thus far this offseason. And I even agree with the majority of this post. But I think another problem for Nash's game in the playoffs is he doesnt have a good enough center who possesses the puck well enough to do more of the work. Like you said BRB the game gets tighter in the playoffs and he cant get away with the same plays Nash used in the regular season. Too many times Stepan and Kreider get a puck and they look to defer to Nash right away. You look at Gaborik with Kopitar...Kopitar holds onto the puck longer, does more of the work, carries through the neutral zone and into all areas of the opposing zone. Kopitar doesnt panic with the puck. It made it much easier for Gaborik to get open, do less work, grab garbage goals. Nash needs a center willing to do the work. I love Stepan but he just isnt that guy. He is more suited to be between St. Louis. MSL is faster than Nash. So if Step is going to distribute the puck like he likes to do with Kreider, MSL could have a step on the defender in the transition game where he can get behind the defense quicker OR it pushes the defense back on their heels more so their is more space in the neutral zone. With Nash the defenders are usually always in front of him with not a lot of space when Step distributes the puck.

Its why I like Joe Thornton. A big guy willing to hold onto the puck, hard to knock off of it, go into the corners and behind the net in the offensive zone. But I know he is an unlikely candidate.
RGY - too many times it seemed as though Nash was taking weak shots that landed in the goalie's bread basket, or he wasn't tough enough to get the puck closer to the net and peeled away with the weak shot. He just didn't fight enough for the puck in close. Thought he did well controlling the puck along the boards when he had it. Just fighting through traffic wasn't his thing. There did, on occasion, appear to be some bunching up with his linemates. Perhaps there is a deferral. But he also needs to be out there and create. Stepan at times seemed like he had glue on his stick given the way he controlled the puck and dished off passes (would like to see him shoot more next season as opposed getting fancy).

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06-24-2014, 09:09 AM
  #449
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One week to free agency, and still no UFA re-signings for the Rangers.

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06-24-2014, 09:13 AM
  #450
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Thats part of it too. I'd love to get a center in here with the playmaking skills to provide time and space to Nash.

That said, Nash has a top 10 cap hit in the game. With that sort of contract, you expect the guy to be able to create on his own in all situations. Unfortunately, thats not the reality here.
Agreed. Unfortunately Nash does have a load of talent to score goals and take over games...in January against subpar defenses that makes mistakes where Nash does that same play to cut around a defenseman from the side boards and get a semi breakaway from a goal. Unfortunately defensemen dont make a lot of mistakes to allow something like that to happen in the playoffs. I wish we could get that center with the playmaking abilities.

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