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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread III

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Old
06-23-2014, 08:36 AM
  #101
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
But no, let us kill our depth because... hell, your argument must be better than mine. Clearly.
I have no idea who you are arguing with, but if we add someone like Grabovski, that means we can't afford to re-sign someone else, or we have to trade someone. Either way, it hurts our depth, so I have no idea what your argument is.

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06-23-2014, 08:43 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Matt4776 View Post
Yeah, Grabovski will cost too much.

To be honest, I think we should just wait it out and see what Miller looks like. If he's struggling, we'll still make the playoffs, and we can make a deal before the deadline.

I really would want to put Kreider and MSL with Miller, but that line would be an absolute abomination in the defensive zone. With our 3rd line already mediocre (at best) defensively, we can't afford another defensive ****show like that.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Miller-MSL
Poo-Brass-Zucc
Boyle/Fast-Moore-Dorsett/Fast

McD-G
Staal-Stral
Moore-Klein

If Miller ever develops into that Kesler/Dubinsky/M. Richards lite player that he was projected to become (i.e. becomes defensively responsible), I think he's the perfect center for Kreider.
I think a move high on the list should be to rid ourselves of Dors and his 1.6m hit for next season.

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06-23-2014, 08:50 AM
  #104
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I'd like to see Stepan with Kreider and MSL instead of Nash. If we lose Poo then maybe put Nash in his spot with Brass and Zucc providing Brassard is the 2c. I think its time for Zucc to move up he played damn good in the playoffs against every team and line

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Old
06-23-2014, 08:53 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
I'm arguing with the consensus of the board that believes it's better to roll with Brassard at 2c, than find another option somehow.

I'd argue that we'd be able to get by with better results with a slightly less expensive defense (i.e trading Marc Staal) than we will if we keep him and have Brass as the 2c.
You really have no argument until you can tell me who you want as that top 6 center and how the Rangers would deal with the losses of the assets to get this unnamed center.

Trading Staal and then "finding a guy to play 2nd pairing LD" is not a suitable answer. Its glossing over what could become a major issue.

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06-23-2014, 08:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
If you notice, we became consistently successful, when we started rolling out 4 lines. That took several months for AV to accomplish. Between cutting deadweight and finding successful partnerships. Now, Richards is gone, and we want to slot Brassard up... and kill the depth.

The prudent and sensible thing to do would be to, yes, obtain another 2nd line center - play Miller on the wing with Brassard, and see if Brassard is in fact needed/worth the contract he seeks, or if he should be traded.

But no, let us kill our depth because... hell, your argument must be better than mine. Clearly.
To the bolded: disagree. We started becoming consistently successful when we acquired Kevin Klein and started rolling 3 capable defensive pairings.

Having Brassard as our 3rd line C is no longer a luxury we can afford, unless you are willing to sacrifice a defenseman to do it. If we do, you're looking at a very similar situation. Instead of Miller/Lindberg on the 3rd line, you'd have McIlrath/Allen on the 3rd pair. There is no way around it. It's that simple.

So, if you were forced to choose between which is more important to the Rangers success, forward depth or defensive depth, which would you choose? I'd choose the D. The "prudent and sensible thing to do" would be to keep the D group intact.

This is the Cap world, and these choices have to be made. It's inevitable.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:00 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
To the bolded: disagree. We started becoming consistently successful when we acquired Kevin Klein and started rolling 3 capable defensive pairings.

Having Brassard as our 3rd line C is no longer a luxury we can afford, unless you are willing to sacrifice a defenseman to do it. If we do, you're looking at a very similar situation. Instead of Miller/Lindberg on the 3rd line, you'd have McIlrath/Allen on the 3rd pair. There is no way around it. It's that simple.

So, if you were forced to choose between which is more important to the Rangers success, forward depth or defensive depth, which would you choose? I'd choose the D. The "prudent and sensible thing to do" would be to keep the D group intact.

This is the Cap world, and these choices have to be made. It's inevitable.
Couldn't agree more.

Rolling 4 lines was nice, but its not like the offense outperformed past Ranger teams from a goal scoring standpoint. This was no offensive juggernaut even with the improved depth.

Goaltending and defensive depth is, and has been, the major strength of the New York Rangers. Im not interested in fooling around with that foundation.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:01 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
I'm arguing with the consensus of the board that believes it's better to roll with Brassard at 2c, than find another option somehow.

I'd argue that we'd be able to get by with better results with a slightly less expensive defense (i.e trading Marc Staal) than we will if we keep him and have Brass as the 2c.
And I'd argue that we don't really know at this point. I'd rather go into the season with what we have and then make changes based on actual results.

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06-23-2014, 09:06 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Couldn't agree more.

Rolling 4 lines was nice, but its not like the offense outperformed past Ranger teams from a goal scoring standpoint. This was no offensive juggernaut even with the improved depth.

Goaltending and defensive depth is, and has been, the major strength of the New York Rangers. Im not interested in fooling around with that foundation.
Right. Now, the question is... what if Stralman walks anyway? There aren't a lot of RD UFAs out there. Niskanen?

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06-23-2014, 09:06 AM
  #111
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defensively i think we are deeper. i think we could lose one of staal or stralman and still be ok with :

more minutes from the klein/moore pairing

conor allen stepping in and contributing this season quality 3rd pair minutes

a dylan mcilrath sighting

our centerman without brad richards on paper look downright scary. i realize beaver was pretty bad in the end, and anyone is an upgrade over that brad richards, but what we have now isnt very good.

stepan could not get nash going. im not a huge stepan guy when we have him in the 1c spot. his foot speed isnt going to allow him to be the dynamic player we need there. and rick nash scoring is the key to this team returning to the finals next season. period.

we need a centerman who is both creative and defensively responsible enough to play 1st line minutes and create for kreider and nash and shut down the opposing 1c.

until someone shows me that guy, im skeptical. no matter how strong the d is, if we cant score, we will suffer again as we did last season.

adding another 2/3 c type guy isnt going to help us even if we keep the d together.

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06-23-2014, 09:09 AM
  #112
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The goaltending and D foundation has gotten us close but without all world performances by Hank (game 7 vs pitts) not good enough to win the whole thing. U have to at some point put the puck in the net and the more offensive firepower the better the chance

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:10 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Right. Now, the question is... what if Stralman walks anyway? There aren't a lot of RD UFAs out there. Niskanen?
Niskanen will be too expensive, but Tom Gilbert is a great option. Hugely underrated.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:13 AM
  #115
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How can we afford Staal next year? If we cant we need to trade him.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:14 AM
  #116
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ODC, you triggered a good thought about ice time. Richards was our #1 center, in terms of ES TOI/G last season. Close to 15 minutes. Stepan was at 14:11, Brassard at 13:14. Two years ago, Stepan was getting close to 16 minutes of ice time. He put up 30 ES points in 48 games that season, comparied with 36 ES points in 82 games this past season. Can Stepan duplicate that kind of success if he gets that kind of ice time again? It's a really good question. I would not be surprised if 2 minutes more of ES ice time for Stepan resulted in 10 more points.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:18 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The goaltending and D foundation has gotten us close but without all world performances by Hank (game 7 vs pitts) not good enough to win the whole thing. U have to at some point put the puck in the net and the more offensive firepower the better the chance
there ya go.

if hank doesnt play out of his mind, offensively and with our pathetic pp, we arent nearly good enough.

goal scoring is the key. im sure hank would appreciate that as well. winning games 2-1 might be fun to watch but it isnt a long term plan. our d is still strong enough with hank to lose onv of staal or stral.



goals = wins.

offense = goals

skill = offense

centerman who can skate and create = skill

improve up the middle and the rest falls into place.

stasny
stepan
brass
moore


move one of staal or stralman- prefer to keep stralman, and clear some cap, sign our fa's and paul stasny and away we go. oh and let boyle walk and replace with jt miller.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:21 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Klein and Moore can continue being our 3rd pairing. Personally, I think Allen can fill in for Staal quite adequately. He limits his mistakes pretty damn well so there won't be much difference there, is much more mobile, will provide similar offense.
See, I don't know if I agree with this, but it raises the question. Do you have more faith in Allen's ability to play 2LD for 18 minutes per night at ES, or even 15-16 if you give Moore-Klein more ice, than Miller or Lindberg being ready to handle 3C duties at 11-12 ES minutes per night?

Personally, I think we'd be crazy to make that trade off.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:25 AM
  #121
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You'd be substituting 1 defender - Staal. A guy who may or may not actually be regressing in this system. By all accounts, the line about who was carrying who on his pairing, has definitely been muddied. Before, it was absolutely him holding up Stralman... now it seems that Stralman may actually have been holding him up and in that case, the argument can be made that maybe Stralman could be performing even better with someone other than Staal.

Klein and Moore can continue being our 3rd pairing. Personally, I think Allen can fill in for Staal quite adequately. He limits his mistakes pretty damn well so there won't be much difference there, is much more mobile, will provide similar offense.

I think the hole on the 2nd pairing defensive pairing will still happen, even if we don't trade him.
Thats insane.

And if you really believe that, theres no reasoning with you on the subject.

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:25 AM
  #122
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Stastny wants $7 MILLION per

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:26 AM
  #123
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Can a CBA person clarify a couple things?

Both Brassard and Zucc are arbitration eligible?

Since both are a year from UFA status, if the Rangers take them to it, and they go through with it, the players get to elect the term, a one or two year contract?

Also, is Kreider arbitration eligible?

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Old
06-23-2014, 09:26 AM
  #124
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How is Stastny a likely option? He is out of their price range, now and going forward. I doubt Detroit trades Mantha for Staal either.

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