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Old
06-25-2014, 09:33 PM
  #76
frederixx
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Waiting till they make sure to re-sign Markov and then try to get Kulikov... Only make sense to me.

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06-25-2014, 09:34 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
Perfect. That means since we have Markov here for three more years, we got 3 years of All-star worthy performances by Gudbranson




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06-25-2014, 09:47 PM
  #78
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Makes us a worst team and doesn't really add any missing core pieces in the future...very bad idea.
Well, I'm a big fan of Howden and I think he'd be a great secondary scorer. Good size, drive, defensive ability, and leadership qualities. Having him in the lineup would give us options with the cap - potentially giving us the opportunity to sign a core piece.

We desperately need some quality prospects in the AHL and in junior - having another high pick would give us the opportunity to go for a run at a potential core piece (i.e. Ho-Sang, Goldobin, etc.) with #26 and maybe a more conservative pick with #32 (Bleackley, Quenneville, Masin etc.)

I'm not sure any trade involving Gorges (or any of our players that aren't "core pieces") would bring back a core piece, that's not a very logical way to judge a trade.

As far as not making us better right now, I'd have to agree. If we don't make a subsequent signing/trade to bring in a top-4 defenceman, I think we'd be worse off. However, I think that the potential of this trade would make it worthwhile. Rivet for Gorges + 1st makes for a very nice comparison.

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06-25-2014, 09:49 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Yeah a #4 that's right handed and big.. That's not appealing?

I admit trading Beaulieu for him would be expensive, but it's not like we have anything close to that in the pipe.
Neither being big or right handed is a skill... Are you kidding me right now?

What I'm saying is that a lot of you guys are willing to part with a bunch of valuable assets in return of an Emelin - Gorges hybrid, two guys that tend to be somewhat under appreciated around here.

Sure, getting Gudbrandson for our 1st rounder would be nice. But it's much more likely Tallon comes in expecting Beaulieu ++ or Gallagher + in return. In which case, I say it's not worth it.

The minute Gudbrandson loses his "young high pick thus lots of potential" etiquette, he'll be regarded as an average second pair Dman.

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06-25-2014, 09:52 PM
  #80
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The more I think about it, the more I feel that the talks are about that 1st round draft pick. Teams should know by Edmonton's example that drafting high doesn't create a winning team. In fact it is a gamble in the sense that the 1st pick could be worth more as the first pick, as once the player has played in the NHL his value will be determinable.

Disregarding the Florida rumour here, if we wan't a top 6 forward, the easiest/cheapest way to get it might be trading for a top ten pick.

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06-25-2014, 09:53 PM
  #81
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What I wouldn't like about moving assets for a guy like Gudbranson is that we'll probably end up paying more than he's actually worth due to the size and leadership super intangibles combo (nevermind the fact that this doesn't make him a legit second pairing defenceman with the ability to drive play at even strenght wich is pretty much the team's biggest need) AND your also paying more due to the fact that he is a recent top 3 pick (nevermind the fact that it was a terrible pick the second it was made).

I wouldn't mind playing him if we already had him in our system since he is at least not a complete possession blackhole compared to a lot of similar "reputation" defensive defenceman but I wouldn't move much for him, especially not with Tinordi in the system.

If I had faith that Therrien would go back to having us play a more similar game to 2013 and that Bergevin would stop giving him anchor to play like Murray, Bouillon and Parros, I think getting Campbell could potentially be a good move. He's old, he has a huge caphit but he doesn't have a lot of term left on his deal and he's still a legit top pairing D. Probably won't cost that much to trade for due to the caphit too. Only bad thing if that he play left though if I remember well Gorges can play right(better than Emelin anyway). That:

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Campbell

Is an awesome top 4.

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06-25-2014, 09:58 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
The more I think about it, the more I feel that the talks are about that 1st round draft pick. Teams should know by Edmonton's example that drafting high doesn't create a winning team. In fact it is a gamble in the sense that the 1st pick could be worth more as the first pick, as once the player has played in the NHL his value will be determinable.

Disregarding the Florida rumour here, if we wan't a top 6 forward, the easiest/cheapest way to get it might be trading for a top ten pick.
What kind of asset are we giving up for that though?

Signing Markov states our window is now. How is trading for a player that won't be of significant help for us for 2-3 seasons solidify our chances?

If it takes moving a guy like Gallagher or Beaulieu to move up to say 7-8ovr... Is it worth it? I'm gonna go out on the limb here and say hell no.


Last edited by JGRB: 06-25-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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06-25-2014, 10:01 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Neither being big or right handed is a skill... Are you kidding me right now?
Nope, all that while playing ~20 minutes a game is a good hint though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What I'm saying is that a lot of you guys are willing to part with a bunch of valuable assets in return of an Emelin - Gorges hybrid, two guys that tend to be somewhat under appreciated around here.

Sure, getting Gudbrandson for our 1st rounder would be nice. But it's much more likely Tallon comes in expecting Beaulieu ++ or Gallagher + in return. In which case, I say it's not worth it.

The minute Gudbrandson loses his "young high pick thus lots of potential" etiquette, he'll be regarded as an average second pair Dman.
Well I think he pretty much already lost that. Now he's just a rugged right handed potential top 4 dman, which if fine with me. I wouldn't dish Beaulieu+ or Gallagher+ and I don't think MB would either. That doesn't stop me from wanting Gudbranson on the team.

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06-25-2014, 10:02 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habbybirthday View Post
Teams should know by Edmonton's example that drafting high doesn't create a winning team. In fact it is a gamble in the sense that the 1st pick could be worth more as the first pick, as once the player has played in the NHL his value will be determinable.

Disregarding the Florida rumour here, if we wan't a top 6 forward, the easiest/cheapest way to get it might be trading for a top ten pick.
There is still a 30% failure rate amongst players drafted in the first round, so it needs to be a calculated risk. The big problem with trading for futures is that you are usually giving up assets with a proven track record.

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Old
06-25-2014, 10:08 PM
  #85
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How about a package including Tinordi for the 1st overall pick. Ekblad is also a RHD and since Florida already has GODbranson...

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06-25-2014, 10:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by AwaKe View Post
How about a package including Tinordi for the 1st overall pick. Ekblad is also a RHD and since Florida already has GODbranson...
Well, Florida wouldn't want any package where Tinordi is the main piece.

It was already said that they're talking isn't ABOUT THE 1ST OVERALL PICK

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06-25-2014, 10:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Well, I'm a big fan of Howden and I think he'd be a great secondary scorer. Good size, drive, defensive ability, and leadership qualities. Having him in the lineup would give us options with the cap - potentially giving us the opportunity to sign a core piece.

We desperately need some quality prospects in the AHL and in junior - having another high pick would give us the opportunity to go for a run at a potential core piece (i.e. Ho-Sang, Goldobin, etc.) with #26 and maybe a more conservative pick with #32 (Bleackley, Quenneville, Masin etc.)

I'm not sure any trade involving Gorges (or any of our players that aren't "core pieces") would bring back a core piece, that's not a very logical way to judge a trade.

As far as not making us better right now, I'd have to agree. If we don't make a subsequent signing/trade to bring in a top-4 defenceman, I think we'd be worse off. However, I think that the potential of this trade would make it worthwhile. Rivet for Gorges + 1st makes for a very nice comparison.
Howden? Also the Rivet deal was a steal IMO. I get the attraction but Gorges plays big minutes for the Habs.
I see a bigger need on the RW and it looks like MTL wants Gionta.

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06-25-2014, 10:11 PM
  #88
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I'm not buying any of this Florida stuff.

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06-25-2014, 10:16 PM
  #89
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It was possibly mentioned previously, but I do see a Eller-Kulikov trade possible. It would make sense for both teams, but only if the Panthers decide to move one of their young players on the wing. Or Eller on the wing. Since Gallant was our PP specialist, I'm sure he would find a way to use him wisely.

For the Habs, that would open a spot for Galchenyuk at center.

That said, Bergevin will need to find a way to bring a talented top 6 winger with skating/scoring/forchecking abilities. I don't see any on the UFA list beside that guy that was floating on the ice during the whole playoffs.

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06-25-2014, 10:18 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
What kind of asset are we giving up for that though?

Signing Markov states our window is now. How is trading for a player that won't be of significant help for us for 2-3 seasons solidify our chances?

If it takes moving a guy like Gallagher or Beaulieu to move up to say 7-8ovr... Is it worth it? I'm gonna go out on the limb here and say hell no.
Yeah.. I thought of that too. Hmm who knows.

Maybe though anyways, if I was GM which we all are here, I would multitask the now and the future. If giving up an asset now for a higher draft pick to ensure our future as a good hockey team I would do it. We have our core coming into there prime right now. I would start the seedlings of my next core. By trading a small portion of my crops for a bounty of seeds for years to come.

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06-25-2014, 10:20 PM
  #91
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I'm not buying any of this Florida stuff.
Agree...but....

The best guy to pry from Florida is IMO Barkov.
So what's the price?

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06-25-2014, 10:21 PM
  #92
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Last time these Fla rumors started and we all talked about Kulikov, Kepecky etc and we ended up with weaver. just sayin'

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06-25-2014, 10:21 PM
  #93
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Campbell would be an amazing acquisition though. If the Panthers can retain some of his salary, I'd be all for it. I think he tends to be underrated in general. Sublime skater and great offensive instincts.

Now, the question Bergevin should ask himself is do I want to pay to gain a bonafide top 4 defenseman in Campbell that will most likely be done by the end of his current contract or do I want to groom my very own PMD in Beaulieu into a top 4 defenseman by the end of 2015-2016? Given the current state of the team, and the odds we win a cup in that two years window is very small, I think I'd lean towards developing Beaulieu.

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06-25-2014, 10:24 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Agree...but....

The best guy to pry from Florida is IMO Barkov.
So what's the price?
Subban/Pacioretty territory...

Kulikov/Gudbranson would be good targets. I doubt anything comes out of this. Maybe a late round swapping of picks.

Montreal has traded their 7th in 2013 for Florida's 7th in 2014.
Montreal traded a 7th for Parros.
Montreal traded a 5th for Weaver.

So, Florida and Montreal have a track record, it's just minor deals.

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06-25-2014, 10:27 PM
  #95
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Too add to that.

Imagine a team with Carey Price, P.K. Subban and Max Pacioretty as our Veterans with a new crop of 3 high draft picks coming in hungry.

My goodness.

Think of it, right now our veterans are Plekanecs, Markov, Gionta (just to name three). With our new crop of P.K., Price and patches coming in.

With Galchenyuk following behind our vets and ahead of our new crop.

That's it guy's thats my dream team.

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06-25-2014, 10:27 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Subban/Pacioretty territory...

Kulikov/Gudbranson would be good targets. I doubt anything comes out of this. Maybe a late round swapping of picks.

Montreal has traded their 7th in 2013 for Florida's 7th in 2014.
Montreal traded a 7th for Parros.
Montreal traded a 5th for Weaver.

So, Florida and Montreal have a track record, it's just minor deals.
Subban territory? Are you drunk?

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06-25-2014, 10:29 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Howden? Also the Rivet deal was a steal IMO. I get the attraction but Gorges plays big minutes for the Habs.
I see a bigger need on the RW and it looks like MTL wants Gionta.
He plays big minutes for the Habs but he does have his deficiencies. Is he a player we want (@4mil) in our lineup longterm? If there's an opportunity to sign a player like him (Stralman, Fayne, Weaver), it's like adding free assets.

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06-25-2014, 10:31 PM
  #98
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Subban territory? Are you drunk?
Why would Florida trade Barkov ? Do you think Florida wants some meh prospects and a 1st ?

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06-25-2014, 10:34 PM
  #99
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Why would Florida trade Barkov ? Do you think Florida wants some meh prospects and a 1st ?
They have no reasons to, but his value is nowhere near Subban's.

Could we get Karlsson with Galchenyuk?

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06-25-2014, 10:36 PM
  #100
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They have no reasons to, but his value is nowhere near Subban's.

Could we get Karlsson with Galchenyuk?
Exactly. No reason to trade him, so it would take them getting an upgrade to even consider it.

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