HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Habs are a contender for next season as of today. Agree or disagree?

View Poll Results: Habs are a contender for next season as of today.
Agree 20 22.73%
Disagree 68 77.27%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-27-2014, 08:38 AM
  #76
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,355
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What the hell is gloomy about what I wrote? A lot of things went right last year. The team was healthy for the most part and was still fighting for a playoff spot up until they got Vanek. Vanek's production will need to be replaced. Or do you think Bourque will take his place? You call it gloomy (I don't even understand how that's gloomy)...I call it realistic.

Are the Rangers a contender? I don't think so. A lot of things will have to go right. There are only 2 legit contenders in the East and that's Boston and Pittsburgh. Then there are the rest.... Philly, Columbus, Montreal, Tampa, etc...

You need a reality check.
Ironic to say I need a reality check when you're the one ignoring reality. "A struggle to make the playoffs"? Based on what? Injuries that haven't happened? Our entire roster spontaneously under-performing? Guess what - Habs had their fair share of injuries and plenty of our skaters under-performed. Our PP disappeared, our 5-on-5 sucked for most of the season. Vanek was great, but he only played 18 games.

This is a developing team with plenty of room for improvement, yet it ended up with 100 pts. There's your reality-check - the one based on reality. We're a top-tier team in the EC, just as we were the season before. Difference is our players now have an impressive playoff run under their belts. That's a huge piece of the development curve.

Does it make Montreal a Cup-contender? As I said - not yet. But it makes them a solid bet for the playoffs. It also makes them worthy of more respect than true bubble teams. Our mission is battling against Pittsburgh and Tampa for the EC title, not Washington and Columbus for a playoff spot.

The only significant loss this season will be Vanek. But every team loses players; the good ones replace them well. Bergevin is proving himself to be a good horse-trader. He'll add some important pieces, if not in the next week through UFA, then during the season. On the plus side, we're on the cusp of having a much better defence, as Beaulieu and possibly Tinordi start replacing the older, slower Bouillon and Murray.

What's 'gloomy' is the inability to recognize that Montreal is trending up.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 08:48 AM
  #77
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What the hell is gloomy about what I wrote? A lot of things went right last year. The team was healthy for the most part and was still fighting for a playoff spot up until they got Vanek. Vanek's production will need to be replaced. Or do you think Bourque will take his place? You call it gloomy (I don't even understand how that's gloomy)...I call it realistic.

Are the Rangers a contender? I don't think so. A lot of things will have to go right. There are only 2 legit contenders in the East and that's Boston and Pittsburgh. Then there are the rest.... Philly, Columbus, Montreal, Tampa, etc...

You need a reality check.
I'd say the team performed below its capabilities last season and we still wound up with 100 points. There's upside there because the team can play better than it did.

The wildcards are: Offseason moves (obviously) and coaching. Does MT actually let Eller and Galchenyuk play serious minutes with serious wingers or does he continue to be an idiot? That's the real question here.

No way this roster should be missing the playoffs though, esp with Beaulieu replacing Murray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The East is wide open, but I still think it goes through Boston. To me that doesn't make the Habs a contender though. I think Habs can either contend in the East or completely fall off the map and miss the playoffs. Wouldn't be surprised in the least.
That's quite the margin of error you've provided for yourself here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Ironic to say I need a reality check when you're the one ignoring reality. "A struggle to make the playoffs"? Based on what? Injuries that haven't happened? Our entire roster spontaneously under-performing? Guess what - Habs had their fair share of injuries and plenty of our skaters under-performed. Our PP disappeared, our 5-on-5 sucked for most of the season. Vanek was great, but he only played 18 games.

This is a developing team with plenty of room for improvement, yet it ended up with 100 pts. There's your reality-check - the one based on reality. We're a top-tier team in the EC, just as we were the season before. Difference is our players now have an impressive playoff run under their belts. That's a huge piece of the development curve.

Does it make Montreal a Cup-contender? As I said - not yet. But it makes them a solid bet for the playoffs. It also makes them worthy of more respect than true bubble teams. Our mission is battling against Pittsburgh and Tampa for the EC title, not Washington and Columbus for a playoff spot.

The only significant loss this season will be Vanek. But every team loses players; the good ones replace them well. Bergevin is proving himself to be a good horse-trader. He'll add some important pieces, if not in the next week through UFA, then during the season. On the plus side, we're on the cusp of having a much better defence, as Beaulieu and possibly Tinordi start replacing the older, slower Bouillon and Murray.

What's 'gloomy' is the inability to recognize that Montreal is trending up.
Vanek really was the guy who put us in the contender category (well him and being in the right conference) and without him its a huge hit. Not sure how we replace him because there's not a lot out there UFA wise for wingers. So the only way to get one would be to deal for one. And what do we have to give up for that?

The D looks better, we're set in net... up front MT has to stop being an idiot and play Eller and Chuck. But we still need wingers.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 08:59 AM
  #78
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 20,547
vCash: 500
Added a poll, since it seems to be a popular question. Even though of course it does depend on subjective definitions of "contender".

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:09 AM
  #79
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Added a poll, since it seems to be a popular question. Even though of course it does depend on subjective definitions of "contender".
As of today? No.

With Vanek I would've said yes.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:09 AM
  #80
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
Ironic to say I need a reality check when you're the one ignoring reality. "A struggle to make the playoffs"? Based on what? Injuries that haven't happened? Our entire roster spontaneously under-performing? Guess what - Habs had their fair share of injuries and plenty of our skaters under-performed. Our PP disappeared, our 5-on-5 sucked for most of the season. Vanek was great, but he only played 18 games.

This is a developing team with plenty of room for improvement, yet it ended up with 100 pts. There's your reality-check - the one based on reality. We're a top-tier team in the EC, just as we were the season before. Difference is our players now have an impressive playoff run under their belts. That's a huge piece of the development curve.

Does it make Montreal a Cup-contender? As I said - not yet. But it makes them a solid bet for the playoffs. It also makes them worthy of more respect than true bubble teams. Our mission is battling against Pittsburgh and Tampa for the EC title, not Washington and Columbus for a playoff spot.

The only significant loss this season will be Vanek. But every team loses players; the good ones replace them well. Bergevin is proving himself to be a good horse-trader. He'll add some important pieces, if not in the next week through UFA, then during the season. On the plus side, we're on the cusp of having a much better defence, as Beaulieu and possibly Tinordi start replacing the older, slower Bouillon and Murray.

What's 'gloomy' is the inability to recognize that Montreal is trending up.
Habs were relatively healthy all year. As for 100 points. Why does that matte? Habs showed that they could ride a hot goalie in God mode to win in the regular season. Look at all the numbers. Poor in most categories but still managed to win. That is not something to be confident about. It's also not sustainable. I'll tell you one thing, if the Habs are counting on what happened last year to happen this year then . We played at an unsustainable level. When we can get the D sorted out and actually score goals 5 on 5 except relying on a PP then we can have a converstion.

The question wasn't whether Montreal was rending upwards or downwards. The question was whether the Habs are a contender or not. They are trending upwards but that wasn't the question. So I don't understand your original comment regarding my first post.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:16 AM
  #81
habfaninvictoria
Registered User
 
habfaninvictoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 1,867
vCash: 500
1 or 2 spots to fill in top 6
need a 2nd pairing RD
Until we get them we rely on Price too much.

habfaninvictoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:21 AM
  #82
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Habs were relatively healthy all year. As for 100 points. Why does that matte? Habs showed that they could ride a hot goalie in God mode to win in the regular season. Look at all the numbers. Poor in most categories but still managed to win. That is not something to be confident about. It's also not sustainable. I'll tell you one thing, if the Habs are counting on what happened last year to happen this year then . We played at an unsustainable level. When we can get the D sorted out and actually score goals 5 on 5 except relying on a PP then we can have a converstion.

The question wasn't whether Montreal was rending upwards or downwards. The question was whether the Habs are a contender or not. They are trending upwards but that wasn't the question. So I don't understand your original comment regarding my first post.
Lots of truth to your post but you're really only looking at the dark cloud here. Yes, we didn't play well and yes we were healthy. But that team also had Cube and Murray (or at least one of them) out there on a nightly basis. Replace one of those guys with Beaulieu and this team is immediately infinitely better.

Yeah Price was great and can't play any better than he did but Subban actually had an off year. Galchenyuk, Eller and Gallagher will be one year older... team is still on the rise.

MT is really the guy I'm worried about. Hated the job he did with us last year and him not developing Eller or Chuck the way he should've scares me for this season. Still, can't see this team not making the playoffs. Saying we aren't contenders is one thing... not a playoff team? I think you're being overly pessimistic.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:27 AM
  #83
VirginiaMtlExpat
2dMostInterestingMIW
 
VirginiaMtlExpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norfolk, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Lots of truth to your post ...

MT is really the guy I'm worried about. Hated the job he did with us last year and him not developing Eller or Chuck the way he should've scares me for this season.
He's not self-correcting, but something happened in the playoffs, which is not entirely ascribable to Vanek's presence and which suggests that maybe MT is open to discussions with MB, who in turn is surely the more perceptive of the two. For one thing, this is a different team if the coach stops playing mind games with Subban. If this corrective process continues, with MB giving his two-cents at opportune times, then there is hope that the team can upgrade its play 5-on-5, as well as rely less on heroic goaltending and Subban's slapshot on the powerplay.

As I said above, for a number of reasons, Bergevin is the X-Factor.

VirginiaMtlExpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:32 AM
  #84
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobholly39 View Post
If we take the rosters as they ended the year last year, today right before the draft/free agenecy when a lot of rosters will get a major re-shuffle, where do you see the Habs?

I feel as though September is going to roll around, and all the so-called experts (and most fans too) are going to say things like:

"Yeah, this year will be tough. Habs will make the playoffs but barely...or be right on the bubble but miss them, finishing 9th or 10th". Just like everyone said 2 years ago, and last year.

I call BS.

2 years ago, Habs finish 1st in division.

Last year, habs finish 1 point out of 2nd in division, and made it to final 4.

Not to make excuses, but both playoff runs we lost our best player (Price) to injury, and he didn't play either year when we got eliminated. Not saying we definately win with him in the lineup, but at the same time would NYR win without Lunqvist or Kings without Quick?

I say this year, the habs are a contender. I say this year, the habs are a VERY STRONG contender to win the division, and should even be considered favorites maybe (close to or above Boston).

I wouldn't put them in the top 2-3 teams as cup favorites of course, although they certainly make the top 8 or so teams for me.


How does everyone else feel about this right before the draft/free agency, while all teams are still intact from last season. If the season started again today with the rosters everyone has, do you see the habs near the very top of conference again? Or struggling for playoff berth? Do you see them repeating playoff success, or not?
No one talks about this, but Price injured in PO the last 2 years is not good. Could just be bad luck, but I'm starting to think there might be a problem with his knees.

I'll be happy if Price stays healthy through the PO next year.

The Habs are not contending next year, or any year in the next 5, without Price healthy through a full PO.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:36 AM
  #85
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No one talks about this, but Price injured in PO the last 2 years is not good. Could just be bad luck, but I'm starting to think there might be a problem with his knees.

I'll be happy if Price stays healthy through the PO next year.

The Habs are not contending next year, or any year in the next 5, without Price healthy through a full PO.
The problem with his knees is that people keep running him.

He looked fine last season and he's been relatively injury free for his career. Nobody's played more than he has. Now though? Man, that looked ugly. Hopefully no problems going forward because if he's not as good next season then HF2k11 could turn out to be right.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:45 AM
  #86
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Disagree. I still only think of Boston and then Pittsburgh as "contenders" in the East.

Habs and Rangers had nice little runs, but still lack elements and consistency. If they can have more convincing 100+-pt seasons and repeat their playoff runs next season, maybe they can join the club. Not yet.
You're going to love Tampa. Average age like 24. Tampa worries me the next 5 years more than any team in the east, by far.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:45 AM
  #87
BrimStone64
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
nope, Price injury happened in the ECF...
If we had Price been in Cup Finals. We were a late season trade for Gaborik type from cup. Vanek was wrong choice. If Galchenyuk matures everything else is there....#1 center, goalie, stud defenseman,

BrimStone64 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:46 AM
  #88
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The problem with his knees is that people keep running him.

He looked fine last season and he's been relatively injury free for his career. Nobody's played more than he has. Now though? Man, that looked ugly. Hopefully no problems going forward because if he's not as good next season then HF2k11 could turn out to be right.
Then why was he out for 3 weeks after Olympics? There is genuine cause for concern about this.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:49 AM
  #89
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No one talks about this, but Price injured in PO the last 2 years is not good. Could just be bad luck, but I'm starting to think there might be a problem with his knees.

I'll be happy if Price stays healthy through the PO next year.

The Habs are not contending next year, or any year in the next 5, without Price healthy through a full PO.
The problem isn't with Price. It's with the team allowing opponents to run him with 0 repercussion.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:49 AM
  #90
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Then why was he out for 3 weeks after Olympics? There is genuine cause for concern about this.
But he was incredible in the Olympics. Every player has injuries and he's been very durable. And wasn't that a groin issue?

This latest injury though is the most serious one he's had so far. So yeah, we should be at least a little concerned. It didn't sound like something to be too worried about but yeah, you definitely don't want the knees to get hurt.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:51 AM
  #91
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,196
vCash: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
If we had Price been in Cup Finals. We were a late season trade for Gaborik type from cup. Vanek was wrong choice. If Galchenyuk matures everything else is there....#1 center, goalie, stud defenseman,
Kinda funny since Gaborik was arguably worse than Vanek the last time he went on a cup run with the Rangers in 11/12. He got dumped twice by teams for poor play before going to the Kings at a bargain price. Who's to say that on the Habs, which had a roster setup much closer to Rangers 11/12 than Kings 13/14, Gaborik plays poorly and Vanek on the Kings does really well?

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:53 AM
  #92
Nynja*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,459
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
No, the better team is not always the winner, even in a game 7 series. All you need is a team capable of sustaining pressure with amazing goaltending, and you can pull through a series win.
So the better team is the one thats stuck to the perimeter because they have a stronger defense and better goaltending, and their offense takes advantage of the chances they have?

How is that not the better team?

Nynja* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 09:53 AM
  #93
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
If we had Price been in Cup Finals. We were a late season trade for Gaborik type from cup. Vanek was wrong choice. If Galchenyuk matures everything else is there....#1 center, goalie, stud defenseman,
"If...if....if..if...." Hear this too much from Habs fans. The simple fat of the matter is, the team is not winning much of anything with Vanek or Gaborik. There need to be more changes. People are more caught up with the fact the team went far this year more than anything. We went far because the stars aligned for us pretty nicely. I'm moreso looking at if we have the team that can win a cup. No. And not really close, really. When we can impose our will, not have to rely on the PP to generate most of our offense and don't need Price to play god mode every game then we can revisit this convo.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:06 AM
  #94
Nynja*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 6,459
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
This latest injury though is the most serious one he's had so far. So yeah, we should be at least a little concerned. It didn't sound like something to be too worried about but yeah, you definitely don't want the knees to get hurt.
Forgetting about his ankle injury?

Nynja* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:13 AM
  #95
MasterDecoy
Lo Pan's lovechild
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 13,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
Not if they re-sign Bouillon
Yeah because a 7/8 dman is the one stoping from becoming a contender

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:14 AM
  #96
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nynja View Post
Forgetting about his ankle injury?
Like I said, every player will have injuries. He's been relatively healthy.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:17 AM
  #97
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 33,841
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
"If...if....if..if...." Hear this too much from Habs fans. The simple fat of the matter is, the team is not winning much of anything with Vanek or Gaborik. There need to be more changes. People are more caught up with the fact the team went far this year more than anything. We went far because the stars aligned for us pretty nicely. I'm moreso looking at if we have the team that can win a cup. No. And not really close, really. When we can impose our will, not have to rely on the PP to generate most of our offense and don't need Price to play god mode every game then we can revisit this convo.
Disagree.

With a top line winger this team is as good as any team in the East.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
Yeah because a 7/8 dman is the one stoping from becoming a contender
He does if his coach plays him 20 minutes a night.

Cube/Murray make their defense partners look like amateurs. When you put guys out there who get outshot 10-1 while on the ice you're putting yourself behind the 8 ball big time.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:23 AM
  #98
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,798
vCash: 50
No way...we lost Vanek!

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:20 PM
  #99
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,495
vCash: 500
Depends on offseason moves and how MT builds his lineup:

_____ - Desharnais - _____
_____ - _________ - _____
_____ - _________ - _____
_____ - _________ - _____


JLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2014, 10:25 PM
  #100
Playmaker09
Valar Morghulis
 
Playmaker09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,114
vCash: 500
We're two top 6 forwards short.

Patch - DD - Gallagher
______ - Chucky - ______
Bourque - Plek - Eller
Bourni - Prust - Weise
Moen - White

Markov - Subban
Gorges - Beaulieu
Tinordi - Emelin
Pateryn

Buy out Briere and you've probably got 8.5 million to get it done. Possibly more if you use bonuses for a vet like Boston did with Iginla last year.
Though this would leave our D very young with Beaulieu/Tinordi/Pateryn all in the lineup. But I think it could be pulled off.


Last edited by Playmaker09: 06-27-2014 at 10:35 PM.
Playmaker09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.