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Nashville Aquires James Neal from Pittsburgh for Patric Hornqvist and Nick Spaling

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Old
08-05-2014, 02:25 PM
  #326
OSUlakers
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
His deflections are ridiculous. Might be best in the NHL at playing the Holmstrom type game

Vanek and Hornqvist are the best active NHL players at deflecting the puck, IMO.

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08-05-2014, 03:41 PM
  #327
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He could really do well, good enough that we are all sitting around shooting ourselves for the trade. That said who knows, we've only seen him in our system really, which was pretty beneficial for a junk goal kind of guy.

It will be interesting to watch him, I definitely can't root for him to suck thats for sure.

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08-06-2014, 02:50 AM
  #328
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I just have a hard time seeing him as an ppg player no matter who the center is, he is not a high skill player.

80 points puts him in the Ovechkin range last season as the highest producing winger.

70 points puts him in the top 10 wings and adds 17 points to his career best.

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08-06-2014, 05:11 AM
  #329
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For a while, I’ve seen it repeated by a few that Hörnqvist gets points by standing in front of the net and letting pucks bounce off of him. Now, Preds33 is even saying it is Patric’s greatest skill. I think it is an inaccurate and an unfair characterization of Patric’s play. Considering the way Patric really played for Nashville, I think it’s unfortunate that that is the image some have and are stating as fact to those unfamiliar with his play.

For anyone wanting to know how Patric really scored goals for Nashville, here’s a link where over 70 of his goals, including all of his goals from last season, can be watched (his 30 goal season is missing):

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...471887&lang=en

You can also find clips of his assists in game summaries, although I haven’t found a single link like the one for goals that makes it easy.

When I re-watched all 53 of Hörnqvist’s points from this past season, I saw one goal and one assist that I could see being described as bouncing off of Hörnqvist. In the Jan 5th game, Patric scored when his own shot hit his skate as the defender was pushing him into the net. I saw exactly zero goals this past season that someone else bounced off of him.

The only assist I would categorize as a bounced off Hörnqvist assist came in the Jan 4th game against Florida. I can’t actually tell from the clip (link below) if he deflected it with his stick. So, I’ll say it bounced off him as he was “standing in front of the net”.

http://e1.cdnak.neulion.com/nhl/vod/...&gid=3000&pt=1

I don’t know how some developed this passive image of Patric’s play as a Predator. To me it seems dismissive of what he brought to the the ice. I hope it isn’t a myth that will continue to grow among Preds fans as time goes on. I don’t think he earned that.

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08-06-2014, 06:39 AM
  #330
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Most of Hornqvist goals are redirections or rebounds, 4 out of the first 5 on that clip are exactly that, 90 of all his goals are shot within 2 feet of the goalie.

If you want to believe he is a high skill sniper go ahead.

I'll still bet anyone here he is not an 80 point player.


Last edited by triggrman: 08-06-2014 at 06:58 AM.
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08-06-2014, 07:56 AM
  #331
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Triggrman – please don’t misunderstand my post. My objection is with the characterization that Hörnqvist scores a lot of goals and assists by standing in front of the net and having his teammates bounce pucks off of him. One poster, Preds33, has take this view to the point of calling it Patric's “greatest skill”. To me there is a difference between that passive image of Hörnqvist standing there hoping a puck will just bounce off of him and the truth of how Hörnqvist plays and scores. He produces a large percentage of his goals, doing whatever it takes to do the job his team has asked him to do. The Predators gave him tapes of Holmström to study his first year or so. He practices deflections, redirections, rebounds – just like other players practice what is asked of them. The team draws up and practices plays based on his position in front of the net – particularly on the power play. Yes, he scores goals in close to the net. But he does it because he’s willing to battle the defensemen for position, he’s willing to stand in front of Weber slapshots, he doesn’t give up on the puck – ever (total competitor), he loves to score, and he has the hand-eye coordination to make those deflections. He isn’t scoring because he’s standing there like a statue waiting for Weber or any other player to bounce pucks off of him. It's not an accident. He’s actively fighting to score. Given the time he spends in front of the net – I am surprised more pucks don’t bounce off him and go into the net. I actually think he’s been remarkably unlucky in that regard.

I’ve never tried to predict the impact, good or bad, the trade will have on him or Neal. I’ve only hoped and will continue to hope it works out well for both of them. It’s ultimately up to their health, their will, and their ability to do what they do.

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08-06-2014, 08:15 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapp View Post
For a while, I’ve seen it repeated by a few that Hörnqvist gets points by standing in front of the net and letting pucks bounce off of him. Now, Preds33 is even saying it is Patric’s greatest skill. I think it is an inaccurate and an unfair characterization of Patric’s play. Considering the way Patric really played for Nashville, I think it’s unfortunate that that is the image some have and are stating as fact to those unfamiliar with his play.

For anyone wanting to know how Patric really scored goals for Nashville, here’s a link where over 70 of his goals, including all of his goals from last season, can be watched (his 30 goal season is missing):

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...471887&lang=en

You can also find clips of his assists in game summaries, although I haven’t found a single link like the one for goals that makes it easy.

When I re-watched all 53 of Hörnqvist’s points from this past season, I saw one goal and one assist that I could see being described as bouncing off of Hörnqvist. In the Jan 5th game, Patric scored when his own shot hit his skate as the defender was pushing him into the net. I saw exactly zero goals this past season that someone else bounced off of him.

The only assist I would categorize as a bounced off Hörnqvist assist came in the Jan 4th game against Florida. I can’t actually tell from the clip (link below) if he deflected it with his stick. So, I’ll say it bounced off him as he was “standing in front of the net”.

http://e1.cdnak.neulion.com/nhl/vod/...&gid=3000&pt=1

I don’t know how some developed this passive image of Patric’s play as a Predator. To me it seems dismissive of what he brought to the the ice. I hope it isn’t a myth that will continue to grow among Preds fans as time goes on. I don’t think he earned that.
Appreciate the analysis. I can't see him producing at less than a pace of 65 points in 82 games on that team, given that he plays with Geno or Sid and gets solid PP minutes. There are too many skilled players around him for his production to not go up at least a few points in a full season, to be obscenely conservative.

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08-06-2014, 09:09 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapp View Post
Triggrman – please don’t misunderstand my post. My objection is with the characterization that Hörnqvist scores a lot of goals and assists by standing in front of the net and having his teammates bounce pucks off of him. One poster, Preds33, has take this view to the point of calling it Patric's “greatest skill”. To me there is a difference between that passive image of Hörnqvist standing there hoping a puck will just bounce off of him and the truth of how Hörnqvist plays and scores. He produces a large percentage of his goals, doing whatever it takes to do the job his team has asked him to do. The Predators gave him tapes of Holmström to study his first year or so. He practices deflections, redirections, rebounds – just like other players practice what is asked of them. The team draws up and practices plays based on his position in front of the net – particularly on the power play. Yes, he scores goals in close to the net. But he does it because he’s willing to battle the defensemen for position, he’s willing to stand in front of Weber slapshots, he doesn’t give up on the puck – ever (total competitor), he loves to score, and he has the hand-eye coordination to make those deflections. He isn’t scoring because he’s standing there like a statue waiting for Weber or any other player to bounce pucks off of him. It's not an accident. He’s actively fighting to score. Given the time he spends in front of the net – I am surprised more pucks don’t bounce off him and go into the net. I actually think he’s been remarkably unlucky in that regard.

I’ve never tried to predict the impact, good or bad, the trade will have on him or Neal. I’ve only hoped and will continue to hope it works out well for both of them. It’s ultimately up to their health, their will, and their ability to do what they do.

And I do view it as his greatest skill. He doesn't have a good shot at all, he's not that great of a skater. The fact is, being in front of the net is the only thing he's good at. He's a one trick pony. And why do I call it his greatest skill, well when you have a Weber slapshot coming at you multiple times a game and it doesn't phase you, that takes skill. Even some goalies flinch over his slapshot. I never said he was standing still, but he doesn't move more than a few feet either that's why I said he stands in front of the net.

But please continue to call me out over my opinion of Hornqvist. I'm sorry I offended you so sorely.

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08-06-2014, 09:24 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
And I do view it as his greatest skill. He doesn't have a good shot at all, he's not that great of a skater. The fact is, being in front of the net is the only thing he's good at. He's a one trick pony. And why do I call it his greatest skill, well when you have a Weber slapshot coming at you multiple times a game and it doesn't phase you, that takes skill. Even some goalies flinch over his slapshot. I never said he was standing still, but he doesn't move more than a few feet either that's why I said he stands in front of the net.

But please continue to call me out over my opinion of Hornqvist. I'm sorry I offended you so sorely.
His wrist shot is very good as he has been known to snipe goals after crossing the blue line and while it isn't a super fast shot his accuracy is very good. Now I'll agree when it comes to his slap shot. He is more likely to clear the puck around the board than hit the net with a slap shot but his wrister is very good.

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08-06-2014, 10:00 AM
  #335
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I just get a little ticked at people saying he's never produced because he didn't have much help in Nashville, when he had Weber and Josi on the points. Sure he didn't play with Crosby or Malkin but that's not going to all the sudden turn him into a ppg top winger in the NHL.

Playing with Malkin and Crosby didn't increase Iginla's scoring rate, it's never turned Jokinen into a top of the league NHLer. And he had a far better resume than Hornqvist and he didn't all the sudden jump to the elite winger category. He did get back to playing better than he had but he didn't jump 20 points like some are predicting here for Hornqvist and he's a much higher skilled player.

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08-06-2014, 11:24 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
His wrist shot is very good as he has been known to snipe goals after crossing the blue line and while it isn't a super fast shot his accuracy is very good. Now I'll agree when it comes to his slap shot. He is more likely to clear the puck around the board than hit the net with a slap shot but his wrister is very good.
Up close maybe, but not far away from the net. The image below is all of his goals since 2009. This would indicate otherwise.


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08-06-2014, 11:41 AM
  #337
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Up close maybe, but not far away from the net. The image below is all of his goals since 2009. This would indicate otherwise.

This is awesome.

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08-06-2014, 11:45 AM
  #338
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This is awesome.
Here is the link if you want to look at anyone else:
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/ic...&r1strength=#8

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08-06-2014, 12:00 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Here is the link if you want to look at anyone else:
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/ic...&r1strength=#8
You just made my day. I had no idea these existed. Thank you!

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08-06-2014, 12:44 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Up close maybe, but not far away from the net. The image below is all of his goals since 2009. This would indicate otherwise.

That's awesome, but this aren't all his goals.
This one for example is missing, maybe there are more missing

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08-06-2014, 01:26 PM
  #341
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That's awesome, but this aren't all his goals.
This one for example is missing, maybe there are more missing
I'm not trying to defending the chart, just curious, is that not considered an own goal? Therefore he didn't actually shoot/deflect it in.

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08-06-2014, 01:36 PM
  #342
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No such thing as an own goal in hockey

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08-06-2014, 01:40 PM
  #343
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No such thing as an own goal in hockey
I understand the other team gets credit for it and the last player who touches the puck gets credit but what I meant was since it went in off a defender, the chart may not be counting that.

Also, did the OWN goal get eliminated because the there are all kinds of references to it.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl-...goals-1.896479 - from 2010 for example

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-...ulous-own-goal - from 2013

and even Patrick Kane this past season.



Back to the point of the goal in question. He missed the net by a good amount and got lucky a defender's skate was in the way and just happened to deflect it. Hence going back to my his shot isn't great.

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08-06-2014, 01:50 PM
  #344
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I understand the other team gets credit for it and the last player who touches the puck gets credit but what I meant was since it went in off a defender, the chart may not be counting that.
That or it may be counting it from the actual deflection point and not where he shot it.

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08-06-2014, 01:53 PM
  #345
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I mean there's no official own goal stat. Of course they happen.

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08-06-2014, 02:02 PM
  #346
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I mean there's no official own goal stat. Of course they happen.
I understand that and that's not what I was meaning, my point was just for the purpose of the count on the shot map of his goals.

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08-06-2014, 02:03 PM
  #347
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I'm sorry, but Hornqvist's shot is below average. In fact, most of his game is below average. He is, as most have said, tremendous in front of the net. He also commits himself totally to the team. This doesn't negate his poor hands, poor stickhandling, average wheels, and average defensive zone play at ES.

Love the guy, but he is not a catalyst and not a scorer outside of the goal crease/net. Anyone saying he is, is not watching him closely.

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08-06-2014, 03:25 PM
  #348
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I'm sorry, but Hornqvist's shot is below average. In fact, most of his game is below average. He is, as most have said, tremendous in front of the net. He also commits himself totally to the team. This doesn't negate his poor hands, poor stickhandling, average wheels, and average defensive zone play at ES.

Love the guy, but he is not a catalyst and not a scorer outside of the goal crease/net. Anyone saying he is, is not watching him closely.
I think the argument really comes around the puck bouncing off him and him actually making a hockey play. He is anything but a sniper, but he does way more than just let it bounce off his butt. He will benfit from being with Crosby and Malkin, but he is not a skill guy. In the end this is a good trade for both teams.

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08-06-2014, 03:39 PM
  #349
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I think the argument really comes around the puck bouncing off him and him actually making a hockey play. He is anything but a sniper, but he does way more than just let it bounce off his butt. He will benfit from being with Crosby and Malkin, but he is not a skill guy. In the end this is a good trade for both teams.
I think he will be fine, if nothing else because he will get a lot of time on the PP. That said, I'm wondering if he may have a bit of issue at times because of speed and just having time to get in there and keep up with his linemates.

I certainly don't think his stats get worse by any means, I'm just not sure he's going to be the world beater some people think he will. That said, I hate that we lost the guy, I'm not sure we have anyone else that really does that.

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08-06-2014, 04:27 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
I understand that and that's not what I was meaning, my point was just for the purpose of the count on the shot map of his goals.
In that case I don't know. I know they have him scoring one from behind the goal line in that chart so that one must have deflected.

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