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2014/15 Lineup????

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Old
07-06-2014, 09:04 PM
  #51
Byrddog
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
No room on the roster? Who's our top 6? Jarnkrok, Neal, Smith and Wilson? Maybe? There are two spots open on the top 6 as far as I can tell and until we either acquire someone else, those two spots are for the taking.

Remember, Lavi is a guy who likes young kids and has a knack of developing them. While it may seem like Forsberg may need time in Milwaukee, he may just need a coach that knows how to get the most out of him. If he earns the spot in camp, he's in the top 6.

The best part of having a new coach, there are no pre-concieved notions of who can do what. It's an open slate and these guys all have to earn their time and spots on the roster.
At this minute there is not room for Forsberg on the roster nor Beck if he is on a one way contract. Currently with Ellis and Ekholm coming back there are 20 players slated to be here. And that is with only 6 defensemen, so there could be room for one more.

The issue remains there is a glut of players incapable of playing top 6. The chances for upgrades are becoming more and more slim. If nothing happens one could expect

Neal- Fish- Wilson
Stalberg- Joke- Smith
Borque- Jarnkrok- Cullen
Clune-Goose-Nystrom

Just no room for Wilson at center, Smith and Neals game are so much alike would not be good to have them on the same line. What a waste to have JArnkrok on line with Borque and Cullen but no way he sees top 6 time this season. Really nauseating lineup at the end of the day.

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07-06-2014, 09:24 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
At this minute there is not room for Forsberg on the roster nor Beck if he is on a one way contract. Currently with Ellis and Ekholm coming back there are 20 players slated to be here. And that is with only 6 defensemen, so there could be room for one more.

The issue remains there is a glut of players incapable of playing top 6. The chances for upgrades are becoming more and more slim. If nothing happens one could expect

Neal- Fish- Wilson
Stalberg- Joke- Smith
Borque- Jarnkrok- Cullen
Clune-Goose-Nystrom

Just no room for Wilson at center, Smith and Neals game are so much alike would not be good to have them on the same line. What a waste to have JArnkrok on line with Borque and Cullen but no way he sees top 6 time this season. Really nauseating lineup at the end of the day.
Stalberg, Bourque are the spots that we could really use for someone else. I think we should move those guys to create some space for some kids. Beck needs a full shake and Salomäki isn't far behind. I'd be happy getting marginal picks for each. I think both guys are a dime a dozen type.

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07-06-2014, 09:54 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Flgatorguy87 View Post
Stalberg, Bourque are the spots that we could really use for someone else. I think we should move those guys to create some space for some kids. Beck needs a full shake and Salomäki isn't far behind. I'd be happy getting marginal picks for each. I think both guys are a dime a dozen type.
I do not disagree but do n ot see teams beating down our door to get those guys from us. Borque could be moved for a pick but Stalberg is here for the duration unless Poile can find someone to unload him like the Lombarbi situation and give up another player to do so.

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07-07-2014, 08:15 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Byrddog View Post
At this minute there is not room for Forsberg on the roster nor Beck if he is on a one way contract. Currently with Ellis and Ekholm coming back there are 20 players slated to be here. And that is with only 6 defensemen, so there could be room for one more.

The issue remains there is a glut of players incapable of playing top 6. The chances for upgrades are becoming more and more slim. If nothing happens one could expect

Neal- Fish- Wilson
Stalberg- Joke- Smith
Borque- Jarnkrok- Cullen
Clune-Goose-Nystrom

Just no room for Wilson at center, Smith and Neals game are so much alike would not be good to have them on the same line. What a waste to have JArnkrok on line with Borque and Cullen but no way he sees top 6 time this season. Really nauseating lineup at the end of the day.
What about this instead.
Forsberg-Wilson-Neal
Joke-Jarnkrok-Smith
Cullen-Fisher-Stalberg
Nystrom-Gaustad-Bourque
Clune

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Old
07-07-2014, 08:17 AM
  #55
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
What about this instead.
Forsberg-Wilson-Neal
Joke-Jarnkrok-Smith
Cullen-Fisher-Stalberg
Nystrom-Gaustad-Bourque
Clune
Works for me.

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Old
07-07-2014, 08:46 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
What about this instead.
Forsberg-Wilson-Neal
Joke-Jarnkrok-Smith
Cullen-Fisher-Stalberg
Nystrom-Gaustad-Bourque
Clune
Took me a few seconds to realize who Joke was lol.

I love this lineup, gives the kids playing time, gives Wilson his shot at being a center, Jarnkrok centering Smith again gives us the potential for 2 scoring lines.

I'm not a huge Wilson supporter but I do think that being on the top line with Neal and playing in Laviolettes system that he will flourish.

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Old
07-07-2014, 09:18 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
What about this instead.
Forsberg-Wilson-Neal
Joke-Jarnkrok-Smith
Cullen-Fisher-Stalberg
Nystrom-Gaustad-Bourque
Clune
Looks good on paper, still a few concerns. I can see Borque and Clune being interchangable. It would be dangerous to put Wilson in the impact situation, if he fails we have another Borque on our hands or worse. For what ever reason Wilson has been unable to gain any traction to have a breakout year a breakdown on the top line ends his time here and likley his career. Forsberg is going to have to have one heck of a camp and preseason to make the team, especially if Beck is given a oneway contract. Theres no way to carry all those forwards and still have to pencil in a couple D guys.


Really need Poile to move a couple of forwards I think we would all like Forsberg to get a shot but he's likely to be Becked(sent down because no roster spot). Until the injuries start.

One area I can see thats gonna cause issues is special teams the PK has taken more of a hit than most will admit losing Leggy,Klein and Spaling hurt. Horni and Neals PIM's are about the same but Jarnkrok will take more than Spaling. Combined with Lavi's more open style game it will be a challenge.

The PP should be better on paper but poor passing may be a sore spot. Faceoffs are going to be critical and if Goose and Fish are injured they are gonna be a huge problem.

The more one looks at it Poile has a way to go, In some areas the team has taken a step back from last season remarkably. If Rinne is healthy and back on his game thats a bright spot and could be the determining factor. While its a stretch to think this is a bubble playoff team you can easliy see them finishing in the 20 to 23rd spot in the league

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Old
07-07-2014, 09:42 AM
  #58
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One of my wildcards this year will certainly be Bourque. I forget that, during the shortened season 2 years ago, he had a 25 goal full season pace and potted another 7 goals in 15 games of AHL playoff hockey. There's no denying that last year was a bad year, but I want to see if he can rebound like Smith did.

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07-07-2014, 09:47 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
One of my wildcards this year will certainly be Bourque. I forget that, during the shortened season 2 years ago, he had a 25 goal full season pace and potted another 7 goals in 15 games of AHL playoff hockey. There's no denying that last year was a bad year, but I want to see if he can rebound like Smith did.
Bourque hasn't got the natural offensive skills that Smith does but he is an extremely quick skater and he consistently gets open in the slot. I think he has 20 goal potential but you're hoping for Spaling-type production.

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07-07-2014, 09:56 AM
  #60
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If Borque rebounds and pots 20 we have yet another tweener. But not to worry Smith will have 40 and 70 points total that will carry the team to the promised land. Yes that was sarcasm. Our definition of success over the last few seasons has went to the crapper.

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07-07-2014, 10:27 AM
  #61
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I don't see where we have taken a step back.

Our top 2 pkers have returned and we still have a ton of guys that can pk but were not used on the PK. Besides, we might need to reevaluate the pk teams anyway as we only killed 80.2% of the penalties. So it's not like our pk was anything to brag about, it was 25th in the league. I'm hoping this is one of the areas Lavi can fix.

When you look at Trotz tenure and our pk, it's not what you thought it would be.

With Pekka Rinne

2012 29th
2011 10th
2010 5th
2009 28th
2008 10th


Now, we've had a few years near the top, but with our defensemen, goalies and numerous grinders, I'd expect us to be near the top every year. We're short on scorers up front but we've always had speed and grinder type players, our pk should be better IMHO.

Losing a 2 guys from the number 2 penalty kill team shouldn't hurt this team.

Our top pkers last season, Weber, Josi, Gaustad, Nystrom all return.

Jones was right behind Klein as 2nd team penalty killer (add that Klein only played a bit over half the season with us). Fisher was right behind Spaling. Bump both up and add Sissons or Bourque up front and there's no loss there. Add Ekholm or whatever defensive defenseman they sign and we'll be fine. Regardless we can't be much worse than 25th.

In all honesty, none of us know the line make-up or even how individuals are going to do in this system as we've never had anything close to this style of system before.I do have to question those that are saying Smith and Neal are the same type player. Not even close. The're closer to being polar opposites in their approach to the game.

Laviolette's system will increase our special teams play though.

Trotz's teams did not take a lot of penalties. The was pretty much Trotz's philosophy. The one thing that passive system did was keep the penalties down. Last season, only 4 teams had less penalties than us.

On the same token, we didn't get many powerplay opportunities either in fact, only one team got less than us.

On paper it looks good to say, we did have the 12th rated powerplay above teams like San Jose, Tampa Bay, NYR, NYI and Detroit. Then you look at actual goals scored and we're tied for 19th. Even the year we like to boast about when we had the league's top powerplay, when you look at percentage we were on top, but actual goals scored we're not, Philly scored 12 more powerplay goals than us that year. 5 other teams had as many or more goals than us.

It's going to be a different year for sure and we'll see if it was Poile's players or BT's system.

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Old
07-07-2014, 11:54 AM
  #62
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How are you at working one eyebrow up at a time?
I got that too

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07-07-2014, 01:39 PM
  #63
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Trigg

One thing we do pretty much know opening day the roster will not be drastically different than it is today. The system that Lavy runs while producing more goals will allow for odd man rushes from the opposing teams as well. The passing ability of the forwards was not improved and has been a issue for years. It is not logical to assume that it will not be fixed before opening day. Turnovers in the neutral zone and giveaways are going to be costly under Lavy's system. For these reasons im afraid Poiles guys are going to take even more penalties. Im not sure that Lavy's open offense will produce the number of goals needed to offset those lost from the turnovers and PK weakness. Poile has not done enough in swapping out Trotz's team at this point. The forwards that the new system will help a re limited as well and tends to be the younger guys. Smith, Borque, Wilson and hopefully Stalberg. Neal played the open system and will have alot of weight on him to produce. The veterans Fish, Cullen, Joke will be pretty much static. Just like every other year we now look to all these guys to put up 20 goals and Neal to have 30 to 35. As everyone says we will have to wait and see if they can live up to it. But all and all the team is little different than last season.

For those expecting the system to just automatically improve the team to playoff spot look at the prior teams and there results in his system.
Philly
08-09 Last full year of Stevens
Goals For: 236 (10th of 30), Goals Against: 225 (14th of 30)
SRS: 0.08 (13th of 30), SOS: -0.06 (23rd of 30)

09-10-Lavi for 57 games
Goals For: 236 (10th of 30), Goals Against: 225 (14th of 30)
SRS: 0.08 (13th of 30), SOS: -0.06 (23rd of 30

10-11 Lavi full season
Goals For: 259 (3rd of 30), Goals Against: 223 (11th of 30)
SRS: 0.40 (6th of 30), SOS: -0.04 (24th of 30

Net gain of 21 goals or an 8% increase


Carolina

03-04
Goals For: 172 (30th of 30), Goals Against: 209 (17th of 30)
SRS: -0.46 (24th of 30), SOS: -0.01 (20th of 30)

04-05
Goals For: 294 (3rd of 30), Goals Against: 260 (18th of 30)
SRS: 0.28 (11th of 30), SOS: -0.13 (28th of 30)

06-07
Goals For: 241 (17th of 30), Goals Against: 253 (19th of 30)
SRS: -0.29 (21st of 30), SOS: -0.15 (22nd of 30)

07-08
Goals For: 252 (5th of 30), Goals Against: 249 (25th of 30)
SRS: -0.15 (21st of 30), SOS: -0.18 (29th of 30

08-09
Goals For: 239 (16th of 30), Goals Against: 226 (8th of 30)
SRS: 0.11 (12th of 30), SOS: -0.05 (28th of 30

Now the big year for Lavy 05-06 saw

Staal with 45 goals 55 assists for 100
Justin Williams with 31 goals 45 asst for 76
Rod Brind'Amour with 31 goals 39 assists for 70
Eric Cole with 30 goals 29 asst for 59
Matt Cullen with 25 goals and 24 asst for 49

All were a dramatic increase and most career years for those players. The next three seasons saw the offense fall off again with Lavy being replaced after the 09 season. We can not expect a 41% increase in goals that he got that one year from this roster. Those were ridiculous numbers for that one year but it anointed Lavy as a top coach. The Philly years he did have a decent defense but not so much in Carolina so this will be the best defense the guy has had. I guess the point is that the offense in Nashville now can't come close to what his prior teams did. If the new system brings a 10% increase in goals we should be doing backflips. More realistic would be 5 to 8 % increase with no drop in defense and Rinne back on track. The team does not match well in the west for a playoff spot now. Ownership have instructed Poile to get back to playoffs this year???? If that is a fact then Poile is gone at season end and a real re-build begins with a new GM. Lavy is here for a while I don't see owners buying him out.

The was an attempt at a realistic view of the situation not meant to be doom and gloom. Jan and Feb will hold enough time for that. All stats were taken from hockyreference.com

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07-07-2014, 01:50 PM
  #64
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i think if healthy stalberg could do pretty well under lavy's offensive system.

the guy was just simply not a defensive type guy like Trotz liked. Especially with his speed. I'd like to see him with Neal as an experiment and see how that goes. Not saying he's a first line guy by any means but he and Neal could maybe form something nice.

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07-07-2014, 03:14 PM
  #65
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Byrd,
I disagree that passing can't be improved. In fact I think that's one of the easiest things to improve. Especially when the focus of dump and chase is switched to more of a transition type game. I think Trotz breakouts were too simplistic and conservative. I expect our passing to look far better with a more transitional game.

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07-07-2014, 03:23 PM
  #66
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At this point you gotta hope Stalberg finds himself again. I think there is not doubt he just didn't fit in with Trotz and his system, the question remains though if he fits in any system and was just carried in Chicago. I'm going to sound like a guy making excuses, but I'm hoping some of his issue last season was that he was so out of place with Trotz that when he did have chances he was pressing to hard to make them count. I think he had a ton of expectations on his shoulders and he crumpled. I'm hoping with those being shifted to Neal and a new coach he plays a bit better, but that old saying about hoping in one hand and crapping in another keeps coming up.

I do think a guy like Wilson could flourish under Lavy, but once again that's more coulds, ifs, hoping. We simply don't know, but at some point the kid either has to be given the chance to produce and then either produce or sent packing. Its the reason I'm not opposed to throwing his butt on the top line with Neal and telling him to prove it. At least then you know he is with a guy who can finish, in a system that should allow him to prove it, and he's been given the chance too.

Now what to expect? Well my thoughts always go to the middle, its usually always somewhere between the two extremes. This leaves us with scoring more, but probably not enough to set the world on fire.

This is one of those seasons where you go in with hoping the coach does things right and the players do to. If either one of them fail, then things could get ugly. I've reached the point already where I want things to get settled and see what happens, because frankly we are all debating something we just won't have an answer to til that puck drops.

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Old
07-08-2014, 11:42 AM
  #67
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Could Watson and Beck make the team now with Fisher out? Watson kills penalties can play wing on a grinder line and brings a physical presence. How many more seasons will Beck play in Milwaukee?

We usually carry 13 forwards and 7 defensemen.

Locks

Forwards
1. Neal
2. Smith
3. Wilson
4. Cullen
5. Gaustad
6. Stahlberg
7. Jokinen
8. Bourque
9. Clune
10. Nystrom

Good bet
12. Jarnkrok

That leaves one of

Forsberg, Watson or Beck

And that's with no other injuries.

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Old
07-08-2014, 05:09 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Could Watson and Beck make the team now with Fisher out? Watson kills penalties can play wing on a grinder line and brings a physical presence. How many more seasons will Beck play in Milwaukee?

We usually carry 13 forwards and 7 defensemen.

Locks

Forwards
1. Neal
2. Smith
3. Wilson
4. Cullen
5. Gaustad
6. Stahlberg
7. Jokinen
8. Bourque
9. Clune
10. Nystrom

Good bet
12. Jarnkrok

That leaves one of

Forsberg, Watson or Beck

And that's with no other injuries.
Heck just play the kids.

Neal/Wilson/Smith
Stalberg/Hook/Forsberg

And just throw the rest into a pot and add salt.

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07-08-2014, 05:22 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Montross View Post
Heck just play the kids.

Neal/Wilson/Smith
Stalberg/Hook/Forsberg

And just throw the rest into a pot and add salt.
I was typing mine out and realized yours was EXACTLY the same as mine!

So I stopped

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07-08-2014, 06:07 PM
  #70
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Heck just play the kids.

Neal/Wilson/Smith
Stalberg/Hook/Forsberg

And just throw the rest into a pot and add salt.
Neal-Wilson-Forsberg
Cullen-Hook-Smith
Jokinen-Watson-Bourque
Nystrom-Gaustad-Stalberg

Smith and Neal should not be on the same line.

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07-08-2014, 06:18 PM
  #71
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There's no reason not to put Smith on the top line, honestly. He had to play the role of finisher because we didn't have anyone better. Just look at St. Louis, Oshie and Steen play great together and both had career years. While he doesn't quite have Oshie's hand he has the best on the team and plays very similar to him. And Forsberg should definitely not play on the top line; he's nowhere near ready.

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07-08-2014, 06:22 PM
  #72
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I'd separate Neal and Smith too, but I wouldn't have Stålberg wasting away on the 4th line.

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07-08-2014, 06:23 PM
  #73
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There's no reason not to put Smith on the top line, honestly. He had to play the role of finisher because we didn't have anyone better. Just look at St. Louis, Oshie and Steen play great together and both had career years. While he doesn't quite have Oshie's hand he has the best on the team and plays very similar to him. And Forsberg should definitely not play on the top line; he's nowhere near ready.
I imagine those top 3 lines would get equal ice time, just the combinations that matter.

The point of my post is more Smith and Neal should be paired with Wilson and Jarnkrok, one per line.

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07-08-2014, 06:25 PM
  #74
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I want Stalberg on the 3rd line, he's a great 3rd liner with his speed. Hopefully Lavy can use him better than Trotz, and Stalberg can finish on a few more chances. Two way street with him and the coach..

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07-08-2014, 06:31 PM
  #75
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Stålberg needs talent around him. The 2nd or 3rd line should be where he plays. 2nd if he's producing at a good clip, 3rd if he's producing well. We have him for a few more seasons, we might as well put him in a position to succeed.

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