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6th Overall - Jake Virtanen UPDATE: Signed to 3-Year ELC

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06-29-2014, 07:10 AM
  #51
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Benning's drafting record has been stellar. What reason do we have to doubt him?

Virtanen looks like a great pick. There were some other great picks available, but that's always going to be the case.

The poster pointing out Virtanen is 9.5 months younger than Reinhart makes a really good argument.

This upcoming season we'll see what he plays like post-surgery and as an 18 year old. That will be more telling to us as to how he'll compare.

I for one look forward to seeing #18 on the Canucks in a couple years.

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06-29-2014, 08:14 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Iridescent View Post
You do know that apart from CSS, nobody had him ranked above 7, right? He was even outside of the 1st round on a lot of scout's lists.

The kid is bordering on Phaneuf level intelligence, whose ceiling is a complimentary 2nd liner, and you honestly think he'd supplant McDavid? Really?

He'd be lucky to go in the first round next year. Heck, there is a strong possibility that in a few years time, people will look back and say he was lucky to go in the first round this year.


edit: spelling
We never saw every teams scouting list. We know that one team had him at least in the top 6, possibly even higher. Most all drafting services had virtanen between 7-14. The very few that would have had him higher or lower would act as outliers.

To say virtanen would go out of the first round next year is a bit of a stretch. I dislike throwing insults around to make a point, but it seems media bias attempting to make a storyline for each draft has possibly affected your own bias?

Virtanen is, in fact, closer in age to the majority of draft picks for next year than he is for 2014. This is considering older players tend to perform better in each draft year, thus the largest swath tend to be born between oct-feb. so wait and see how he shapes up next year against that draft class and form your opinion at that point. Afterall, he is 4 1/2 months closer to mcdavid than to Reinhart in age.

He wouldn't surplant mcdavid and eichel. Those two seem to be on another level; however, I hope we are pleasantly surprised and he manages to outplay other picks for 2015. . The exception would be ourpick: He better be the next great one.

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06-29-2014, 09:06 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by GCM View Post
Benning's drafting record has been stellar. What reason do we have to doubt him?
Previously I was going to use this to defend him, but then I saw his Buffalo record and decided it wasn't a good point to make.

Benning's 1st round record is actually pretty bad as a whole. It's in the later rounds where he has found some gems. But then there's no knowing how much influence he had in each draft and there are bound to be successes and misses.

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06-29-2014, 09:49 AM
  #54
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He has an awesome backhand, but I wish he showed more dangling skills on breakaways. It was either backhand or fake the shot and shoot on the right side of the net.

It's nice that Virtanen and McCann can actually shoot the puck though. Shinkaruk has a sick release too, but who knows if he'll be around with benning leading the charge.

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06-29-2014, 09:53 AM
  #55
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I hope he ends up being better than Dustin Brown
I view Dustin Brown more of a complimentary player.
I also hope that he doesn't turn out to be the worst player among the 4 discussed.

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06-29-2014, 09:58 AM
  #56
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Virtanen will be fine.

I would preferred another pick, but he should pan out as a 30 goal, 55 point type player while being able to punish opposing players physically.

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06-29-2014, 09:58 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Anyone else think this kid brings back memories of Brule only in a 6'1'' 210 lb frame? Brule with size would have been something else.
Really??? Brule is 5'10" or 5'11" 185 pounds, his numbers were nothing like Virtanen's, and, to the best of my knowledge, Virtanen has no personal issues like Burle has. Which are documented.

I'm really excited about this pick!! This young man is very young, in terms of hockey years, compared to the rest of the field in this years draft. His hockey IQ should improve next year as he learns the game a bit more, right now he's relying on pure talent alone. Which he has a tonne of.

He reminds me of a young Jamie Benn to be honest, at the same age Jamie was in tier II hockey playing for the Grizzlies here in Victoria, his skills at that point were very raw like Jake's. They also posted very similar numbers as 17 year olds (Jamie 42 goals 23 assists vs Jake 45 goals 26 assists) and have very similar body types. If they develop Jake and let him play two more years of junior he'll be a good one I'm projecting.

Nylander is a skilled smallish young player, great young player, but I'm of the opinion this is the better pick for our organization.


Last edited by Freakshow: 06-29-2014 at 10:05 AM.
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06-29-2014, 10:34 AM
  #58
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Why is Jake Virtanen the least talked about Canucks pick from this draft?

Over 24 hours since the selection and we've only got 3 pages of buzz to show for it?

Our 7th round selection has more than double the posts and replies FFS

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06-29-2014, 10:36 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Finnish Your Czechs View Post
Why is Jake Virtanen the least talked about Canucks pick from this draft?

Over 24 hours since the selection and we've only got 3 pages of buzz to show for it?
People are too busy over analyzing our 6th round pick.

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06-29-2014, 10:48 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnish Your Czechs View Post
Why is Jake Virtanen the least talked about Canucks pick from this draft?

Over 24 hours since the selection and we've only got 3 pages of buzz to show for it?

Our 7th round selection has more than double the posts and replies FFS
Because there's about 13 pages worth in a prior thread that was locked.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1697779

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06-29-2014, 11:00 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Iridescent View Post
Individual scouts. I know one personally who said he would not touch Virtanen in the first round.

The final rankings you see from private scouting services are consensual rankings from compiled individual lists. Some scouts may have had Virtanen top 5, others below 30. And the disparagement for Virtanen comes from his intelligence, or more accurately lack thereof. It is no secret that he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It's a big deal to some people, less so to others. But at the junior level it's more about tools that separate players anyways. At least outside the "top end" talent anyways. And Virtanen has some great tools.

Not sure why I'm bothering to respond to such a juvenile post, but I'm up early and not much else to do I guess.
Sorry friend but it's pretty much useless to use things like "I know a scout and he says this". It's unverifiable and for all anyone knows it is completely fictitious.

For the sake of productive discussion how about we all stick to citable sources (published rankings, etc) or our own personal viewings and opinions.

Otherwise the whole thread descends into a complete **** show.

And besides, my buddy knows a guy who is best friends with a guy who is a long time NHL scout and HE tells me that they had Virtanen rated in the top 3 and that his hockey IQ is actually tremendously underrated. Guess we can all have our own "insider sources" if we want to

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06-29-2014, 11:07 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I had Nylander higher on my list but Virtanen is a completely different player and could be just as valuable one day. All depends on how he develops. Value-wise, all 4 of the guys available to us were pretty even, IMO.

At his age, those goal scoring numbers are absolutely spectacular, especially since they mostly came at ES. Considering he played with 2nd line linemates and faced top opposition, that's an impressive feat.
I feel the same way except my guy was Ritchie (because of how he carried his team).

At this point, it's not worth screaming for the guy I wanted (like the posted you are quoting) because it's not going to change anything, and there is just a good a chance that JV is better than Nylander/Ritchie as the other way around. So we might as well support the guy we got.

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06-29-2014, 11:21 AM
  #63
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My biggest problem is nowhere in this draft did the Canucks grab someone who can create offense, who can be a centerpiece of the offense or even just one line.

Virtanen - In my mind, his high end potential is a Corey Perry type who can skate. That's great, honestly, but Corey Perry needs Ryan Getzlaf. Getzlaf is the straw that stirs the drink in Anaheim.

McCann - What can I say? Value for the 24th pick but the guy projects to be a two way centre who is going to do more for the team defensively than offensively. His absolute ceiling is a decent 2nd line centre, in my mind.

After those two, we got a goalie, a bunch of defensemen - two of which are behemoth defensemen who likely will contribute nothing offensively - and a 4th line grinding centre.


In terms of the prospects we already have, Horvat projects to be a 2nd line centre, albeit a very good one, Gaunce a 3rd line centre, and the rest are scoring wingers and defensemen.

Really, who is our blue chip OFFENSIVE guy? We do have some, but they're goal scoring wingers and those don't tend to create the offense.

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06-29-2014, 11:30 AM
  #64
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Next year is the chance to grab a future #1C that "stirs the drink".

IMO Nylander(the only available offensive center at the time) would get eaten alive in the pacific division. He might prove me wrong, but I'm happy with Virtanen over him.

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06-29-2014, 11:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
My biggest problem is nowhere in this draft did the Canucks grab someone who can create offense, who can be a centerpiece of the offense or even just one line.

Virtanen - In my mind, his high end potential is a Corey Perry type who can skate. That's great, honestly, but Corey Perry needs Ryan Getzlaf. Getzlaf is the straw that stirs the drink in Anaheim.

McCann - What can I say? Value for the 24th pick but the guy projects to be a two way centre who is going to do more for the team defensively than offensively. His absolute ceiling is a decent 2nd line centre, in my mind.

After those two, we got a goalie, a bunch of defensemen - two of which are behemoth defensemen who likely will contribute nothing offensively - and a 4th line grinding centre.


In terms of the prospects we already have, Horvat projects to be a 2nd line centre, albeit a very good one, Gaunce a 3rd line centre, and the rest are scoring wingers and defensemen.

Really, who is our blue chip OFFENSIVE guy? We do have some, but they're goal scoring wingers and those don't tend to create the offense.
That's a pretty vague statement, what does that mean to you? Teams win Championships, not the Alex Ovechkins of the world. Just my opinion, but Jim Benning has a theory in mind, building a "team" that can win in the playoffs.

I said this earlier, J. Toews won a couple of Cups scoring 68 points, Anze Kopitar won a couple of Cups scoring around 70 points, but, they play a 200 foot game. LA had two 20 goal scorers this year, yet they came through in the end and won another Cup.

I like the direction the team is headed in terms of youth within the organization. Just my opinion...

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06-29-2014, 11:39 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post

Really, who is our blue chip OFFENSIVE guy? We do have some, but they're goal scoring wingers and those don't tend to create the offense.

I feel your pain but you have to look at the players that were available at each pick before complaining that we didn't get a blue-chip (I assume that means 1C) centre prospect.

Who was available at 6 that could have been that player?

Ehlers, Nylander, Fiala are all wingers and with recent measures putting Nylander at 5'9 I think the speculation that he will play centre at the NHL has been put to rest.

At 24 the best options other than McCann were also guys with second line projections. Barbashev, Scherbak, or else were real long-shot boom/bust types like Ho-Sang or Goldobin.

I don't see any obvious 1C prospects that we passed up in the first round to be mad about. This rebuild - and let's be clear that this team needs a rebuild, not a retool - is just starting and we aren't going to plug all holes all at once. 2015 is probably going to be a lottery year for this team as well, so I would look for us to get that 1C prospect there.

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06-29-2014, 11:40 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Rex Banner View Post
Next year is the chance to grab a future #1C that "stirs the drink".

IMO Nylander(the only available offensive center at the time) would get eaten alive in the pacific division. He might prove me wrong, but I'm happy with Virtanen over him.
Nylanders boom/bust factor is very high IMO. No doubt he is extremely talented offensively, but, can he translate that into the NHL? You can't survive in the NHL without playing in all three zones in todays NHL as a center.

So I'm in total agreement with you!!!

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06-29-2014, 11:58 AM
  #68
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I feel your pain but you have to look at the players that were available at each pick before complaining that we didn't get a blue-chip (I assume that means 1C) centre prospect.

Who was available at 6 that could have been that player?

Ehlers, Nylander, Fiala are all wingers and with recent measures putting Nylander at 5'9 I think the speculation that he will play centre at the NHL has been put to rest.

At 24 the best options other than McCann were also guys with second line projections. Barbashev, Scherbak, or else were real long-shot boom/bust types like Ho-Sang or Goldobin.

I don't see any obvious 1C prospects that we passed up in the first round to be mad about. This rebuild - and let's be clear that this team needs a rebuild, not a retool - is just starting and we aren't going to plug all holes all at once. 2015 is probably going to be a lottery year for this team as well, so I would look for us to get that 1C prospect there.
You're definitely right here. The team obviously didn't pass up on any for sure 1st line centre type offensive prospects, but I was kind of hoping that they'd at least go for some skill guys with high ceilings in the mid to late rounds.

Definitely not criticizing the team for not grabbing a definite future first line centre, which is why my question about blue chip offensive prospects was worded quite badly. I guess I'm just wondering where the high ceiling guys are, outside of the goal scorers.

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06-29-2014, 12:01 PM
  #69
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I wanted Canucks to pick Virtanen because of his skating, ability to score and hit. He will be playing in the NHL but top 6 or bottom 6 is yet to be determined.

In my mind I see Nylander and Ehlers as very high risk high reward picks.

Picking Virtanen is good choice because he is kind of safe pick with high reward.

I think he will surprise everyone next year when he puts up way more assists. I dont know much about the Hitmen roster so I wont guess his numbers but I just think he will put up way more assists then 26 next year.

Were there any players like Virtanen who had great skating, score 45 goals in his draft year and be physical but bust after getting drafted?

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06-29-2014, 12:04 PM
  #70
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That's a pretty vague statement, what does that mean to you? Teams win Championships, not the Alex Ovechkins of the world. Just my opinion, but Jim Benning has a theory in mind, building a "team" that can win in the playoffs.

I said this earlier, J. Toews won a couple of Cups scoring 68 points, Anze Kopitar won a couple of Cups scoring around 70 points, but, they play a 200 foot game. LA had two 20 goal scorers this year, yet they came through in the end and won another Cup.

I like the direction the team is headed in terms of youth within the organization. Just my opinion...
I'm fine with the team game direction. But when it comes down to it, we don't have anyone on the level of a Toews or Kopitar. Maybe those two had lower production than the other elite 1st line centres but I think we can all agree they have the ability to produce more. Why do those guys and their teams win Cups? One big reason is those guys have the elite offensive ability that allows them to produce at a high rate at the toughest time of the year.

I want to make it clear: I like our prospect pool and think it has improved immensely in the last couple years. Not trying to make it sound like I'm whining about it. I'd just like to see a few guys with high offensive ceilings in the mix.

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06-29-2014, 12:05 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I want to make it clear: I like our prospect pool and think it has improved immensely in the last couple years. Not trying to make it sound like I'm whining about it. I'd just like to see a few guys with high offensive ceilings in the mix.
Well, they pushed pretty hard to get Reinhart, so it seems evident to me they're aware of the eventual need.

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06-29-2014, 12:12 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I'm fine with the team game direction. But when it comes down to it, we don't have anyone on the level of a Toews or Kopitar. Maybe those two had lower production than the other elite 1st line centres but I think we can all agree they have the ability to produce more. Why do those guys and their teams win Cups? One big reason is those guys have the elite offensive ability that allows them to produce at a high rate at the toughest time of the year.

I want to make it clear: I like our prospect pool and think it has improved immensely in the last couple years. Not trying to make it sound like I'm whining about it. I'd just like to see a few guys with high offensive ceilings in the mix.
The thing with 2 way players like Horvat, McCann, Gaunce is that we never know when they will figure it all out. They might have that ability to create offence but they have been playing 2 way game almost their whole career.

Look at ROR for example. He never put up 1 PPG in OHL but look at him succeed in the NHL. Horvat has put up over PPG.

My point being, just because they are 2 way players doesnt mean they cant create offence. Also playing alongisde better player also helps.

Not 2 way Fs = Shinkaruk, Virtanen, Kassian, Jensen, Fox?
2 way Fs = Horvat, McCann, Gaunce?

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06-29-2014, 12:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
I'm fine with the team game direction. But when it comes down to it, we don't have anyone on the level of a Toews or Kopitar. Maybe those two had lower production than the other elite 1st line centres but I think we can all agree they have the ability to produce more. Why do those guys and their teams win Cups? One big reason is those guys have the elite offensive ability that allows them to produce at a high rate at the toughest time of the year.

I want to make it clear: I like our prospect pool and think it has improved immensely in the last couple years. Not trying to make it sound like I'm whining about it. I'd just like to see a few guys with high offensive ceilings in the mix.
I fully understand. I'm of the opinion we need that total four line team game, which I'm happy they're trending towards. As for Toews and Kopitar, ya they could absolutely put up more points if they cheated on the defensive side of things, but they choose not to.

We may have that in Horvat or McCann, guess we'll have to wait and see like the Hawks and Kings did with those two.

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06-29-2014, 12:26 PM
  #74
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I am a Leafs' fan living in Calgary so I have zero bias here really. In my opinion this kid has the potential to be the best player to come out of this draft. Even though he claims to model his game after Rick Nash, he plays more like a Jamie Benn with a Kessel like snap shot. I have to lol at the people who have never watched this guy play before writing him off as a future 3rd liner due to his low hockey iq..... Although I like Nylander, I wish the Leafs were able to grab Jake as well.

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06-29-2014, 12:30 PM
  #75
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I think Virtanen and McCann both bring a high level of skill along with other traits that will make them effective at the NHL level.

Guys like Nylander and Ehlers have a higher "pure skill" level but are lower on the other traits that help in the NHL.

Fans obsess too much about "pure" skill IMO and ignore other factors. There's a reason Nylander is viewed as possibly the most skilled player in the draft yet was never in the discussion for top 5.

LA is full of players who have a high - but not elite - level of skill. Carter, Brown, Williams, Richards, heck even Kopitar is more high-end skill than "elite".

If we can accumulate these types of players with non-top 5 picks then we are building towards a solid future IMO. At some point we will need to find out own Doughty or Kane but that will likely require a top 3 pick at some point, or perhaps a top 10 pick next year (my hope).

I think it helps to recall the old proverb about Rome not being built in a day. So it goes with NHL teams.

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