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Why do you want to get rid of Emelin (if you do)?

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Old
06-29-2014, 09:46 AM
  #26
sandysan
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Emelin is the best hitting defenceman on a small soft team. He however should be playing on the left side.
Also he has a howitzer and should be taking 2nd power play duties. Instead, Francis Bouillon had twice as many power play minutes last season as Emelin, although Emelin scored power play points at a rate six times higher than Bouillon did. This may be on Therrien.
Anyway it's smart of MB to trade Gorges over Emelin imo.
Im not sure that being the best hitting defensemen on the habs is the praise some might think.

and is it only me but my impression is that he is decidedly less physical since coming back from the injury. He was never speedy but he's also slower and he will throw a couple hits (or try to) a game but he just seems a lot less effective now.

moving him to the left might help, but to me the question is do we want Gorges where we know what to expect (he may not be flashy but he is steady) or hope that emelin rebounds and resturns to his previous form? im not so confident about the latter, but with emelins NTC it does make it difficult.

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06-29-2014, 09:53 AM
  #27
JLP
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Im not sure that being the best hitting defensemen on the habs is the praise some might think.

and is it only me but my impression is that he is decidedly less physical since coming back from the injury. He was never speedy but he's also slower and he will throw a couple hits (or try to) a game but he just seems a lot less effective now.

moving him to the left might help, but to me the question is do we want Gorges where we know what to expect (he may not be flashy but he is steady) or hope that emelin rebounds and resturns to his previous form? im not so confident about the latter, but with emelins NTC it does make it difficult.
True but he is the best hitting defenceman whether the team hits much or not. All the more reason to keep him what other defenceman can scare a big opposition winger?

I would take Emelin over Gorges for his physical presence; which I think improves on the left side, and also for his point shot, which is much better than Gorges' standard "toss the puck behind the net so we lose possession" move, which is steady but ineffective.

As for slowing down, my theory is that when a player comes back midseason from a knee surgery he probably plays the rest of the season at ~80% capacity as part of his recovery process.

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06-29-2014, 09:55 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
True but he is the best hitting defenceman whether the team hits much or not.

I would take Emelin over Gorges for his physical presence, which I think improves on the left side, and also for his point shot, which is much better than Gorges' standard "toss the puck behind the net so we lose possession" move.

As for slowing down, my theory is that when a player comes back midseason from a knee surgery he probably plays the rest of the season at 80% capacity as part of his recovery process.
When he's on his game Emelin is better than Gorges but he's also a lot more inconsistent than Gorges. Gorges can go out against the top-offensive players every game and not hurt us, with Emelin every game is a coin flip as to whether he can handle it or not.

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06-29-2014, 09:58 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
When he's on his game Emelin is better than Gorges but he's also a lot more inconsistent than Gorges. Gorges can go out against the top-offensive players every game and not hurt us, with Emelin every game is a coin flip as to whether he can handle it or not.
Emelin has never been better than gorges. People keep referencing this golden period of time where Emelin was this beastly D. He was never that. He was a good depth guy who knew how to throw a fantastic hit.

At least when it comes to the defensive stuff, gorges >> emelin ainec. Emelin gets all this credit for being tough and a good hitter that most people automatically assume he's solid in his own end. He's probably a better offensive guy than defensive guy, TBH. His decision making in the offensive zone is much better than in the defensive zone and always has been. The 'great' emelin most people remember is probably when he was playing third pairing minutes with Diaz and they were eating their competition alive.

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06-29-2014, 10:03 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
When he's on his game Emelin is better than Gorges but he's also a lot more inconsistent than Gorges. Gorges can go out against the top-offensive players every game and not hurt us, with Emelin every game is a coin flip as to whether he can handle it or not.
Emelin makes mistakes for sure, but remember Gorges taking out Tokarski lol he is also prone to major goofs. As to consistency for sure that's Gorges -- he pretty well plays it safe but that kills a lot of our offense imo. Plus Gorges is not who you want on the 2ndPP but Emelin could be a stud there. I'm hoping Emelin starts next season at 100% and gets PP duty, and has a great year.

Curious whether people think Emelin or Gorges has a higher market value?

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06-29-2014, 10:04 AM
  #31
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Emelin went from 8 to 9 hits a game to 3 or 4 since he's been playing on the wrong side. Also his hits aren't as hard as they were when he was playing left D. Emelin could be a number 4 if he stays on his natural side.

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06-29-2014, 10:07 AM
  #32
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He should play left. But we got Tinordi and Beaulieu for that spot next year. So.

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06-29-2014, 10:11 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Emelin went from 8 to 9 hits a game to 3 or 4 since he's been playing on the wrong side. Also his hits aren't as hard as they were when he was playing left D. Emelin could be a number 4 if he stays on his natural side.
Again his hit total is down because of a new defensive style not playing RD. Even look at Subban hit totals, they are down as well.

Also Emelin played RD in his first year....aside from a few games when he played with Daiz/Weber, he played most of the year on RD with Kaberle.

Heck youtube his hits, they come from all over the ice.

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06-29-2014, 10:14 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Emelin has never been better than gorges. People keep referencing this golden period of time where Emelin was this beastly D. He was never that. He was a good depth guy who knew how to throw a fantastic hit.

At least when it comes to the defensive stuff, gorges >> emelin ainec. Emelin gets all this credit for being tough and a good hitter that most people automatically assume he's solid in his own end. He's probably a better offensive guy than defensive guy, TBH. His decision making in the offensive zone is much better than in the defensive zone and always has been. The 'great' emelin most people remember is probably when he was playing third pairing minutes with Diaz and they were eating their competition alive.
He's not the greatest in his own end but like I said it's more due to inconsistency. There are games where he is just as good defensively as Gorges, but there are others where he's pretty brutal.

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06-29-2014, 10:15 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
He should play left. But we got Tinordi and Beaulieu for that spot next year. So.
We have Pateryn (maybe Nygren and Dietz) competing for a RHD position that would help if they impressed in camp.

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06-29-2014, 10:18 AM
  #36
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Emelin is a keeper. Gorges less.

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06-29-2014, 10:22 AM
  #37
Sorinth
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
Emelin makes mistakes for sure, but remember Gorges taking out Tokarski lol he is also prone to major goofs. As to consistency for sure that's Gorges -- he pretty well plays it safe but that kills a lot of our offense imo. Plus Gorges is not who you want on the 2ndPP but Emelin could be a stud there. I'm hoping Emelin starts next season at 100% and gets PP duty, and has a great year.

Curious whether people think Emelin or Gorges has a higher market value?
I think they have fairly even value it all depends on what the other team is looking for. If they need more of a 2-way D then they take Emelin. If they need a defensive guy to play with an offensive oriented partner or need veteran leadership then they'd take Gorges.

For the Habs I think Gorges better complements Subban/Markov then Emelin does. With Beaulieu probably having a spot as well the need for Emelin's better offensive game is not very pressing so the stability/consistency that Gorges brings should win out.

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06-29-2014, 10:29 AM
  #38
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Gorges is better than emelin. I don't know why people would think different. he's not. He hasn't even hit anyone into the third row I'm a while. Emelin has not driven any offense in a while and hes a clown car in his zone. At least gorges knows what to do when he doesn't have the puck.

Alexei has had slightly better moments before so let's hope it was just the injury and not a correct picture if his defensive acumen.

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06-29-2014, 10:38 AM
  #39
sandysan
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I think they have fairly even value it all depends on what the other team is looking for. If they need more of a 2-way D then they take Emelin. If they need a defensive guy to play with an offensive oriented partner or need veteran leadership then they'd take Gorges.

For the Habs I think Gorges better complements Subban/Markov then Emelin does. With Beaulieu probably having a spot as well the need for Emelin's better offensive game is not very pressing so the stability/consistency that Gorges brings should win out.
Emelin subban does not work And, as the playoffs showed, Emelin markov is just too slow

I think that overall gorges and Emelin are comparable but we need some stabilization on the back end and for that purpose, Emelin is just not as good as gorges, especially when we will likely have 2 of the three young D getting significant minutes.

I think that if you want to keep it simple with the rookies, putting gorges out there is wah better because you largely know what you are getting, with Emelin it's a lot more loosely goosey.

And the one thing that Emelin foes better is physical play but in my opinion that's been on the decline. Whether that is because he's playing on the wrong side, because of the injury or both, I don't know. But he's definitely slower.

The fact that he has a NTC and gorges has a limited NTC also works into it and I really wished it didn't because if one has to go it will likely be Gorges and for me I'd rather move emelin.

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06-29-2014, 10:57 AM
  #40
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Im not sure that being the best hitting defensemen on the habs is the praise some might think.
Emelin might be the best open ice hitter in the NHL. His timing and technique is really incredible. It's a lost art.

And if you disagree, please give me 5 names who are better open ice hitters.

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06-29-2014, 11:01 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
He's not the greatest in his own end but like I said it's more due to inconsistency. There are games where he is just as good defensively as Gorges, but there are others where he's pretty brutal.
I would really like to see him play a season where

1) It's not a condensed schedule like the lockout year
2) He doesn't miss training camp + Beginning of season
3) Plays on his proper side

I think a lot of those inconsistencies issue would go away if he was put in a better position to succeed.

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06-29-2014, 11:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I would really like to see him play a season where

1) It's not a condensed schedule like the lockout year
2) He doesn't miss training camp + Beginning of season
3) Plays on his proper side

I think a lot of those inconsistencies issue would go away if he was put in a better position to succeed.
Unless he plays with subban or on the third pairing, he won't be playing his 'proper' side. Playing him with subban would be suicide and the third pairing is no place for a 4m/year D. I think if people are expecting some great turnaround when he plays on the left that they'll be very, very disappointed when it eventually happens.

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06-29-2014, 11:18 AM
  #43
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When Emelin plays on his natural side, he has a spot in the top 4. When he plays on his off-side....it's just a nightmare to watch.

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06-29-2014, 11:21 AM
  #44
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Low hockey IQ
Slow as fuark
Bad contract for too long
Sucks on the right side + no room on left side with (Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi)

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06-29-2014, 11:22 AM
  #45
Andrighetto Fabolous
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Considering how much time Emelin missed he ended up finishing the year better than I expected. He struggled at times in the playoffs but it was expected given how much hockey he played after he came back and how he didn't have a training camp or a pre-season.

I'd prefer Emelin on the left side but in reality he just needs a quicker defenseman to play with him, it'd be nice to have a guy like Beaulieu playing with him instead of Markov.

He's just entering his prime years and if he can continue to add some offense (25-30 points) his contract will look like a steal near the end of it.

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06-29-2014, 11:35 AM
  #46
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Unless he plays with subban or on the third pairing, he won't be playing his 'proper' side. Playing him with subban would be suicide and the third pairing is no place for a 4m/year D. I think if people are expecting some great turnaround when he plays on the left that they'll be very, very disappointed when it eventually happens.
If Gorges can play with Subban, believe me, Emelin can too.

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06-29-2014, 11:53 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
If Gorges can play with Subban, believe me, Emelin can too.
I don't believe you

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06-29-2014, 12:07 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Low hockey IQ
Slow as fuark
Bad contract for too long
Sucks on the right side + no room on left side with (Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi)
He just came back from major knee surgery.



Habs fans are all so cynical, it's pretty depressing being on hfboards. Emelin is a good player, who can be given 2nd PP duties and succeed. he has some offensive instincts.

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06-29-2014, 12:07 PM
  #49
Des Louise
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I don't believe you
Anyone can play with Subban. Normally, elite players can carry a subpar player. Like Subban is doing for Gorges, like Lidstrom was doing for Dandenault.

And to say that it would be suicide to play Emelin with Subban suggests that Georges is superior to Emelin by quite the margin. Which is simply not the case, and I bet the other way around if Emelin were used on his proper side and didn't miss training camp. But even if Emelin is not better than what he has shown this season, it's still ridiculous to think Gorges is that much better than Emelin. At worse they're about the same with different qualities and flaws.

That said, it's possible that Emelin-Subban wouldn't be a good pairing for other reasons. But we won't know until we try it properly.

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06-29-2014, 12:08 PM
  #50
overlords
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
If Gorges can play with Subban, believe me, Emelin can too.
He can play there in the sense that anybody can put on skates and stick to the left side of the ice while subban does everything else. Gorges doesn't weigh subban down. Emelin would. If you can't see how one is far superior defensively, I can't help you.

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