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2014 Offseason - Roster Building / Trade Speculation Thread VI

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Old
06-29-2014, 02:13 PM
  #101
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I have no problem with one of them making it.. that's what the good teams do, promote from within
Promoting from within and handing 5 rookies roster spots are pretty different things

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06-29-2014, 02:13 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Ignoring endorsement deals (which are astronomically higher for a NBA player), do remember that the LeBrons and the like make ~20 million, so the scale is off a bit in the comparison.

Lastly, when your effective playing roster is MUCH smaller in the NBA, it's easier to see where your paycut went to bolster the lineup opposed to talking a sweetheart deal and hoping the savings materialize when spread over the other 22 players on the team.

It's optics and small handful of players wanting to get championships that drive this false narrative.

And while I don't agree w/ your lockout/players being greedy viewpoint, if hockey players came from the socio-economic background that many basketball players do, hockey players would probably be viewed differently (rightly or wrongly)
Fair points. I'm not really trying to rip hockey players as much as I am praising the NBA players. They get such a bad wrap. (In other ways too. LeBron was mocked by hockey fans because he left the game due to cramping. The guy legit couldn't walk and all the tough guy hockey fans were ripping him, absurd.)

Hell, I dislike Carmelo Anthony and hope he doesn't come back to the Knicks. But if he doesn't, he would be taking less money than the Knicks can give him.

All these Rangers FAs say how much they loved it here and how much they want to be back, but the sad reality is they all want to be paid. Its a shame. I can't blame a player like Brian Boyle for trying to cash in, but he has become one of my favorite players and I'm really upset to see him go. More so than most any player who has left before.

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06-29-2014, 02:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Crosby makes what 8.5ish? Signed that deal a few years ago and I believe it was the highest in the league at the time.

JT did sign a pretty friendly contract but he was going to be RFA.
Oh and McD signed a pretty cheap contract

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06-29-2014, 02:15 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Fair points. I'm not really trying to rip hockey players as much as I am praising the NBA players. They get such a bad wrap.

Hell, I dislike Carmelo Anthony and hope he doesn't come back to the Knicks. But if he doesn't, he would be taking less money than the Knicks can give him.

All these Rangers FAs say how much they loved it here and how much they want to be back, but the sad reality is they all want to be paid. Its a shame. I can't blame a player like Brian Boyle for trying to cash in, but he has become one of my favorite players and I'm really upset to see him go. More so than most any player who has left before.
I agree with Sather. Team needs to have structure. Every player will be asked to play a role to maintain that structure. Boyle wants another role, a bigger role which means more money.

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06-29-2014, 02:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Ignoring endorsement deals (which are astronomically higher for a NBA player), do remember that the LeBrons and the like make ~20 million, so the scale is off a bit in the comparison.

Lastly, when your effective playing roster is MUCH smaller in the NBA, it's easier to see where your paycut went to bolster the lineup opposed to talking a sweetheart deal and hoping the savings materialize when spread over the other 22 players on the team.

It's optics and small handful of players wanting to get championships that drive this false narrative.

And while I don't agree w/ your lockout/players being greedy viewpoint, if hockey players came from the socio-economic background that many basketball players do, hockey players would probably be viewed differently (rightly or wrongly)
The Big 3 in Miami each took a pay cut of a few hundred thousand dollars the first time (when you factor in no state taxes), so let's not get crazy here. D. Wade is going to get more guaranteed money because his deal will likely be extended to 4 years instead of the 2 he has left. Let's wait and see what actually happens this time and with Melo too before we give them credit for not being money-grubbing. If you want to point to a basketball player that took less money, look no further than Tim Duncan. Duncan has taken less money than he could have to help the Spurs spend elsewhere.

Chris Neil took less to stay with Ottawa than he could have gotten from the Rangers. Brodeur took less than he could have in the past to help the Debbies out. Crosby and Malkin could have gotten Ovechkin deals but they didn't. In the end, it doesn't make a player a better teammate because they took less. It's their living we're talking about. Why should a player take less money so an idiot GM can spend what's left of the cap on a Wade Redden?

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06-29-2014, 02:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Kind of a random note, not really directed at any player in particular.

Everyone says how great guys hockey players are, how they aren't selfish etc.

Everyone bashes basketball players for being thugs, or money hungry etc.

It should be noted that LeBron freakin James is about to take a paycut. So is Dewayne Wade. Tim Duncan opted in for 10 million when he can easily get more elsewhere.

You never see this in hockey. Everybody wants every dollar. Hockey lost a whole season and then another half season because of players who are much more well off to begin with being so greedy.

Maybe some hyperbole from me but I just find it amazing that some of the best players in the NBA, including the best player since Jordan are taking less money in an effort to win.

What kind of statement is this...

Please explain exactly in numbers what and who you will be comparing and you will look like a moron.
Are you comparing Brian Boyle to Lebron James or Mats Zuccarello to Dwane Wade. Please enlighten me as to how this is the same thing.

Lebron is going to accept 19 million per over 5 years instead of 22 million over 5 years and is 100 million dollar Nike deal in his back pocket compared to Zuccarelo who doesnt have a million dollars in his bank acct yet and you want him to take 2 years at 2.5 per and be a team player instead of taking his 3 years and 4 million per which puts himself in a good spot financially but didn't take less for the team so Lebron and basketball players are better guys than hockey players...

Great Post dude...
Laughable

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06-29-2014, 02:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Kind of a random note, not really directed at any player in particular.

Everyone says how great guys hockey players are, how they aren't selfish etc.

Everyone bashes basketball players for being thugs, or money hungry etc.

It should be noted that LeBron freakin James is about to take a paycut. So is Dewayne Wade. Tim Duncan opted in for 10 million when he can easily get more elsewhere.

You never see this in hockey. Everybody wants every dollar. Hockey lost a whole season and then another half season because of players who are much more well off to begin with being so greedy.

Maybe some hyperbole from me but I just find it amazing that some of the best players in the NBA, including the best player since Jordan are taking less money in an effort to win.
I'm not going to get involved in this "thug" argument, but can you at least tell me how much money in endorsements Lebron or Dwyane Wade gets compared to hockey players?

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Old
06-29-2014, 02:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont think Fast, Lindberg (and especially) Kristo, and Bourque really sniff the NHL much this season.

If that is the team, we're in for a world of hurt.
I think we're in for a rude awakening.

It's going to be this, or worse, signing worse players to replace our depth to 1 yr $1M deals.

I agree. I think this team is in serious trouble.

We have Staal MSL Stepan and Hagelin with contracts up at the end of this season.

We can't be locking up guys like Ehrhoff etc. We need to sign the ****ing Ryan Carters of the world to maintain our roster.

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06-29-2014, 02:46 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by rangersbaby View Post
What kind of statement is this...

Please explain exactly in numbers what and who you will be comparing and you will look like a moron.
Are you comparing Brian Boyle to Lebron James or Mats Zuccarello to Dwane Wade. Please enlighten me as to how this is the same thing.

Lebron is going to accept 19 million per over 5 years instead of 22 million over 5 years and is 100 million dollar Nike deal in his back pocket compared to Zuccarelo who doesnt have a million dollars in his bank acct yet and you want him to take 2 years at 2.5 per and be a team player instead of taking his 3 years and 4 million per which puts himself in a good spot financially but didn't take less for the team so Lebron and basketball players are better guys than hockey players...

Great Post dude...
Laughable
I guess you were unable to read the part where I said it wasn't directed at any player in particular, and my later post where I said I don't blame Boyle for taking the money.

I certainly wasn't talking about our RFAs. We'll see how that plays out. They are RFAs and Sather is always tight with them. Nobody is going to offer sheet a Rangers player, so if they want to squeeze Zucc or Brassard, they can.

This goes beyond Rangers players too. The fact that the league lost an entire season because of the stubborn players refusing to accept a cap only to accept it months after losing the season was a joke. The owners were always going to win but the players just stuck to their guns. But thats a whole other debate.

And yeah, basketball players get a bad wrap. I'm aware LeBron James' endorsement deals are a factor. He can still try to get the max contract and hes not going to. I mentioned Tim Duncan as well. He doesn't have the endorsements of LeBron and he takes less money all the time. Just opted in for a mere 10 million.

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06-29-2014, 02:49 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
I guess you were unable to read the part where I said it wasn't directed at any player in particular, and my later post where I said I don't blame Boyle for taking the money.

I certainly wasn't talking about our RFAs. We'll see how that plays out. They are RFAs and Sather is always tight with them. Nobody is going to offer sheet a Rangers player, so if they want to squeeze Zucc or Brassard, they can.

And yeah, basketball players get a bad wrap. I'm aware LeBron James' endorsement deals are a factor. He can still try to get the max contract and hes not going to. I mentioned Tim Duncan as well. He doesn't have the endorsements of LeBron and he takes less money all the time. Just opted in for a mere 10 million.
Basketball players don't get a bad rap. Tim Duncan is the consummate professional, so he's the exception in that sport.

Hockey players don't make a ton of $ in comparison. Leaving a million on the table for a hockey player is a little different than in basketball, where the Jose ****ing Calderon's of the world make $7M/yr

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06-29-2014, 02:50 PM
  #111
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Ehrhoff should be priority #1. In his prime. Huge shot. Puck mover. Can play both sides. Knows the system.

I still believe they can and will resign Moore and Stralman.

Staal has been great for this organization. He has been an absolute rock on the back end. However, the defense needs to add some offense to the back end. McDonagh is still growing. Girardi offers little offense. Same with Klein. Staal hasn't looked as comfortable in this new system as far as jumping into the play.

With the way this team is built. Finding another defenseman who can provide some offense is HUGE. Finding players who can skate and get up into the play is HUGE. Stralman skates well and is solid defensively. Same with McDonagh. Ehrhoff is another example of a player like that. Edler is another one.

Staal, Girardi and Klein are compliments to true puck movers. Defense first, make a first pass, simple game.

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06-29-2014, 02:52 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Ehrhoff should be priority #1. In his prime. Huge shot. Puck mover. Can play both sides. Knows the system.

I still believe they can and will resign Moore and Stralman.

Staal has been great for this organization. He has been an absolute rock on the back end. However, the defense needs to add some offense to the back end. McDonagh is still growing. Girardi offers little offense. Same with Klein. Staal hasn't looked as comfortable in this new system as far as jumping into the play.

With the way this team is built. Finding another defenseman who can provide some offense is HUGE. Finding players who can skate and get up into the play is HUGE. Stralman skates well and is solid defensively. Same with McDonagh. Ehrhoff is another example of a player like that. Edler is another one.

Staal, Girardi and Klein are compliments to true puck movers. Defense first, make a first pass, simple game.
100% agreed.

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Old
06-29-2014, 02:53 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Ehrhoff should be priority #1. In his prime. Huge shot. Puck mover. Can play both sides. Knows the system.

I still believe they can and will resign Moore and Stralman.

Staal has been great for this organization. He has been an absolute rock on the back end. However, the defense needs to add some offense to the back end. McDonagh is still growing. Girardi offers little offense. Same with Klein. Staal hasn't looked as comfortable in this new system as far as jumping into the play.

With the way this team is built. Finding another defenseman who can provide some offense is HUGE. Finding players who can skate and get up into the play is HUGE. Stralman skates well and is solid defensively. Same with McDonagh. Ehrhoff is another example of a player like that. Edler is another one.

Staal, Girardi and Klein are compliments to true puck movers. Defense first, make a first pass, simple game.
Agree. I think we can get him cheaper than Stralman and he ought to have good history with AV. Getting him AND Stralman would be a coup. I doubt we get both. I'm sure Sather could trade Klein if needed but I doubt it ever gets to that. Girardi-Stralman-Erhoff up the right = "so sorry Dylan?"

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06-29-2014, 02:54 PM
  #114
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Also, I think there will be less expensive options for the 4th line wing spots who can do the role asked. However, in saying that, Dominic Moore is the guy they need to retain. He provides depth and makes that line go. Very good PKer. Very good on faceoffs. Good leader. Knows the system. AV likes him.

Ryan Carter. Stephen Gionta. Brian Gibbons. Guys who can skate and are like gnats. That is the way this team is being built. Speed. Forecheck and counter attack. I think Gibbons would be a solid addition for this teams 4th line. Excellent PKer. Has good hands. Hard to knock off the puck.

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06-29-2014, 02:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Ehrhoff should be priority #1. In his prime. Huge shot. Puck mover. Can play both sides. Knows the system.

I still believe they can and will resign Moore and Stralman.

Staal has been great for this organization. He has been an absolute rock on the back end. However, the defense needs to add some offense to the back end. McDonagh is still growing. Girardi offers little offense. Same with Klein. Staal hasn't looked as comfortable in this new system as far as jumping into the play.

With the way this team is built. Finding another defenseman who can provide some offense is HUGE. Finding players who can skate and get up into the play is HUGE. Stralman skates well and is solid defensively. Same with McDonagh. Ehrhoff is another example of a player like that. Edler is another one.

Staal, Girardi and Klein are compliments to true puck movers. Defense first, make a first pass, simple game.

Great post. I agree with all of this.

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06-29-2014, 02:55 PM
  #116
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I think we're in for a rude awakening.

It's going to be this, or worse, signing worse players to replace our depth to 1 yr $1M deals.

I agree. I think this team is in serious trouble.

We have Staal MSL Stepan and Hagelin with contracts up at the end of this season.

We can't be locking up guys like Ehrhoff etc. We need to sign the ****ing Ryan Carters of the world to maintain our roster.
The cap will go up and if we were to sign Erhoff they wouldn't need to sign Staal. Hags will get a slight raise. I think MSL takes around the same or depending on his year we let them go. People are putting WAY too much stock in the cap only rising 5M.. especially when the key guys of the core are RFAs

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06-29-2014, 02:55 PM
  #117
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Agree. I think we can get him cheaper than Stralman and he ought to have good history with AV. Getting him AND Stralman would be a coup. I doubt we get both. I'm sure Sather could trade Klein if needed but I doubt it ever gets to that. Girardi-Stralman-Erhoff up the right = "so sorry Dylan?"
Ehrhoff can play either side. Stralman has played both sides in his career. And if McIlrath really pushes for a spot, you have 3 excellent valuable pieces to recoup some assets.

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06-29-2014, 02:57 PM
  #118
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Pouilot can be replaced.. boyle is 100% gone we've seen what happens when he's asked to do a bigger role... D Moore NEEDS to be kept though. Miller should get a spot somewhere in the bottom 6 whether its 3c or replacing Poo

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06-29-2014, 02:58 PM
  #119
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@BuffaloSabres: The #Sabres confirm compliance buyout on Christian Ehrhoff.

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06-29-2014, 02:58 PM
  #120
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Agree. I think we can get him cheaper than Stralman and he ought to have good history with AV. Getting him AND Stralman would be a coup. I doubt we get both. I'm sure Sather could trade Klein if needed but I doubt it ever gets to that. Girardi-Stralman-Erhoff up the right = "so sorry Dylan?"
Trade him while he has any "value" ****ing waste of a pick

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06-29-2014, 02:59 PM
  #121
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@BuffaloSabres: The #Sabres confirm compliance buyout on Christian Ehrhoff.
He fits AV's system to a T

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06-29-2014, 03:00 PM
  #122
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He fits AV's system to a T
Yes sir. It makes a lot of sense.

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06-29-2014, 03:00 PM
  #123
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Ehrhoff is pretty much exactly what we need despite the handedness. Right now our 5 other defenseman will barely outscore McDonagh on his own. We need one other guy who can come in and help out and provide something from there.

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06-29-2014, 03:01 PM
  #124
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I'm pretty amazed that Buffalo cut Ehrhoff loose. Good player on a very bad team and all in all not a bad contract. Definite interest from this quarter.

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06-29-2014, 03:02 PM
  #125
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Im not a fan of having to many youngsters on the team. How about this. We resign Zucc and put him on the first line With Kreider and Stepan.

Kreider - Stepan - Zucc
St Louis - Brassard - Nash
Hagelin - Moore - Carbomb
???? - Miller - ?????

Resign Strålman, offer Ehrhoff something, trade Staal for picks and wingers.

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