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Old
06-30-2014, 09:27 AM
  #51
Miamipuck
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I disagree.

It used to be that defensemen almost universally took years to make it. Lots of defensemen are making it to the NHL pretty quickly now. There are lots of young defensemen currently on NHL rosters.
Disagree all you want, the fact of the matter is it's correct. There's always been young defensmen on rosters, however the vast majority make it in their later years.

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06-30-2014, 09:28 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think whats also unfortunate is that defensemen like McIlrath are becoming a dying breed in the NHL.

I always see reports that McIlrath is a good skater, but its usually followed with (for a guy thats 6'5''). The NHL, more than ever before, is being tailored towards speed, speed, speed. Couple that with the injuries that have slowed his development, and thats where I worry that the deck is stacked against him.
Danny G and Marky Marc are really floundering in this speed based league.

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06-30-2014, 09:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
Hahahaha I wish there was a heart smiley, even though I don't use them.



Who me? Nahhhh, I am going to blame Dylan for being drafted till the day I die. lol



Hahahaha I thought the midget B thing gave it away.
No coffee = bad news



As sad as it is, there are people who write exactly what you wrote and are serious

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06-30-2014, 09:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
No coffee = bad news



As sad as it is, there are people who write exactly what you wrote and are serious
Yes, it really makes me shake my head. It happens all too much, especially in the NFL. (I am a Jets fan). I never understood that mentality.

Edit: I totally understand about the coffee. lol

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06-30-2014, 09:37 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I disagree.

It used to be that defensemen almost universally took years to make it. Lots of defensemen are making it to the NHL pretty quickly now. There are lots of young defensemen currently on NHL rosters.
Most of those d-men fall into two camps:
Guys that were regarded more highly than McI (and drafted higher as well), such as Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Lindholm, Larsson, Dougie Hamilton.

Or guys that ended up on teams where lack of depth made them best options regardless if they should be in the NHL or not: Brodin, Ceci, Maata, Ristolainen, etc.

Everyone knew McI was going to take 4-5 years, and the Rangers depth at D has made it where he hasn't had to be rushed. Not sure how either are knocks on his development so far.

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06-30-2014, 09:40 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
Disagree all you want, the fact of the matter is it's correct. There's always been young defensmen on rosters, however the vast majority make it in their later years.
If you don't believe that young defensemen get into the league much faster and in greater numbers than they used to, you are not paying attention.

The cap alone has been a major factor along those lines. You are free to disagree, but the facts are on my side.

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06-30-2014, 09:42 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
If you don't believe that young defensemen get into the league much faster and in greater numbers than they used to, you are not paying attention.

The cap alone has been a manor factor along those lines. You are free to disagree, but the facts are on my side.
Of course the facts are on your side, you say so. The truth is that despite young defenseman being in the league ( because of the salary cap) the fact of the matter is they still develop at exactly the rate I said.

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06-30-2014, 09:56 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
You've done it, BRB. You've managed to somehow imply that the distrust you have (derived from a gut feeling) is more credible than the board's most frequent and dedicated viewer on the subject.

Kudos.
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
When I never ever see a negative assessment of a prospect here, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit skeptical on the subject.
For the record, I watched about half of Hartford's games last year and I gave a pretty mixed review of him on the first page. I guess I should have skewed (even) more negative or more positive.

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06-30-2014, 09:56 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
A marginal downgrade from Stralman to Klein. You're the one who thinks that McIrath is the only option to then replace Klein. I never said that.



Again, don't put your words in my mouth.



I'm not the one penciling McIrath in. You are.




It's a lot simpler than saying: "Replacing Stralman with McIlrath would be brutal." For that matter, saying that "Klein would be replacing Stralman" doesn't say that "McIrath would replace Klein." You did that.



For the umpteenth time, I'm not the one removing Stralman and replacing him with McIrath. You are.
This thread subject is McIlrath and him playing on this team. That is what the discussion is about.

Who else would he be replacing? Not Stralman or Klein, the #2 and #3 RHD?

Klein would not be a marginal downgrade from Stralman. He hadn't faced nearly the same quality of competition nor nearly logged the minutes Stralman had. 4-5 minutes ATOI over the course of a season are a lot of minutes. 200-300 more minutes. It makes a huge difference.

I'm not going to be baited into an argument by someone who is clearly attempting to be contradictory and snarky.

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06-30-2014, 09:57 AM
  #60
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Going to the finals probably added 1M to Stralmans AAV. he will get close to a 5M AAV.

That is out of our price range. We can move Klein up to the Stralman slot. But can Dylan play 12-15 minutes of third pairing Dman by the start of the season. His 700K Cap Hit would be a huge boost and will give us the Cap room to bring back Dominick Moore and maybe Benoit Pouliot. I cant give Brian Boyle a 3M AAV and will not give him a 3rd line role.

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06-30-2014, 10:03 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
Of course the facts are on your side, you say so. The truth is that despite young defenseman being in the league ( because of the salary cap) the fact of the matter is they still develop at exactly the rate I said.
Four defensemen drafted after Mcilrath have made it to the NHL.

He may end up the best of them, but I would bet against it.

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06-30-2014, 10:04 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
If you don't believe that young defensemen get into the league much faster and in greater numbers than they used to, you are not paying attention.

The cap alone has been a major factor along those lines. You are free to disagree, but the facts are on my side.
Defensemen 22 or younger playing 50+ games (3/5 of season)

1998-99: 23 (0.85 per team)
2013-14: 27 (0.9 per team)

Big difference.

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06-30-2014, 10:07 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Rust Heisenberg View Post
Danny G and Marky Marc are really floundering in this speed based league.
It's an issue. Girardi at least hasn't been through several major concussions, broken facial bones and has full use of both of his eyes.

Staal has lost a few steps, and his eye is an issue when the puck is in his feet.

Rangers were able to exploit the Canadiens' lack of mobility of their defense. Subban did all he could and ran out of gas.

We don't want to be on the opposite side of that.

The Kings already exploited Girardi and Staal less than average skating.

The quicker you can gain the puck and get it up through the neutral zone, the better. Part of gaining the puck is winning races to loose pucks. Staal consistently got beat to those pucks.

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06-30-2014, 10:10 AM
  #64
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Just musing here: If the Hugh Jessiman pick worked out, fans would be a lot more patient with McIlrath.

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06-30-2014, 10:13 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I see people that are frustrated that a top 10 pick not only isn't here, but really isn't knocking down the door for a roster spot.

The glowing reports are from either the wild optimists or the people that frame themselves as minor league experts - these folks are like the boy who cried wolf.
How about directly from Beukeboom that stated he was ready for the NHL?

I'm not a big believer in what the message board guys have to say personally. If they were really good at evaluating players they would be doing it for a living and not giving away the valued opinion for free on a message board.

but that's just my two cents.

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06-30-2014, 10:32 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Defensemen 22 or younger playing 50+ games (3/5 of season)

1998-99: 23 (0.85 per team)
2013-14: 27 (0.9 per team)

Big difference.
Your stats seem narrowly defined. I was talking about making it to the NHL level, not being a major factor. If I am wrong under that definition, I will admit that my opinion was wrong.

Obviously this is irrelevant to the relevant arguments as to the merits of Mcilrath.

By the way from what website can you so quickly get those numbers?

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06-30-2014, 10:34 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
How about directly from Beukeboom that stated he was ready for the NHL?

I'm not a big believer in what the message board guys have to say personally. If they were really good at evaluating players they would be doing it for a living and not giving away the valued opinion for free on a message board.

but that's just my two cents.
Beuk says he is ready.

If he is not here next season, is Beuk wrong?

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06-30-2014, 10:36 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Your stats seem narrowly defined. I was talking about making it to the NHL level, not being a major factor. If I am wrong under that definitely tion, I will admit that my opinion was wrong.

Obviously this is irrelevant to the relevant arguments as to the merits of Mcilrath.
I was looking at defensemen who are his age or younger. He might very well make it at player's ages who were older. Not all of the players that made it into those numbers had major impacts on their teams. I wonder what the difference in average age overall is.

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06-30-2014, 10:41 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
When I never ever see a negative assessment of a prospect here, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit skeptical on the subject.

Follow my stuff on Kreider during the lockout. At one point, someone asked if he slept with my gf, I was that animated that he's having trouble in Hartford. I still voted for him as our #1 prospect because I saw potential, but I was shouting from all corners that he's not ready in 2012-13 as people were predicting that he was already ready to be a 20-25 goal scorer.

Also, that season I killed the whole Whale team except Talbot and a couple others.

With McIlrath, I wrote a few times that unless he takes a big jump this summer, there's a good chance he starts in the minors.

I tend not to focus on busts too much for obvious reasons (do you care that Collins sucked?), though look at my statements on guys like Kyle Jean (began calling him a bust when everyone still had some hope), Kyle Beach (was supposed to be a borderline NHLer when he was acquired), Mashinter (better than Beach, but not close to the NHL), etc. Even in the prospects poll (round 1), I took out guys like Missiaen, Stajcer, Wilson and Jean because I didn't regard them as prospects who should get new contracts.

In particular, in my game play-by-play reviews on the Hartford board, I called a lot of plays very negatively, many more than I called positively (mostly because Hartford was terrible for much of the last two years).

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06-30-2014, 10:44 AM
  #70
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My cousin watches most of the AHL games. Don't ask me why. He said McIlrath's skating really improved during the course of last season. That's the one area he needed to work on. The NHL is full of guys who needed a little more time to develop. Boychuk. There's still room for big guys who can play.

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06-30-2014, 10:45 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Follow my stuff on Kreider during the lockout. At one point, someone asked if he slept with my gf, I was that animated that he's having trouble in Hartford. I still voted for him as our #1 prospect because I saw potential, but I was shouting from all corners that he's not ready in 2012-13 as people were predicting that he was already ready to be a 20-25 goal scorer.

Also, that season I killed the whole Whale team except Talbot and a couple others.

With McIlrath, I wrote a few times that unless he takes a big jump this summer, there's a good chance he starts in the minors.

I tend not to focus on busts too much for obvious reasons (do you care that Collins sucked?), though look at my statements on guys like Kyle Jean (began calling him a bust when everyone still had some hope), Kyle Beach (was supposed to be a borderline NHLer when he was acquired), Mashinter (better than Beach, but not close to the NHL), etc. Even in the prospects poll (round 1), I took out guys like Missiaen, Stajcer, Wilson and Jean because I didn't regard them as prospects who should get new contracts.

In particular, in my game play-by-play reviews on the Hartford board, I called a lot of plays very negatively, many more than I called positively (mostly because Hartford was terrible for much of the last two years).
I think you've done enough to not have to try and prove your credibility.

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Old
06-30-2014, 10:45 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Kloucek was the most wrong I have ever been on a Ranger. I thought he would be a rock for ten years.
He got injured and that destroyed his career. Kloucek was a very talented defenseman.

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Old
06-30-2014, 10:45 AM
  #73
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while i agree that his game is improving, i have 2 major concerns with mcilrath.

first, is his game suited for the style we play ? i would love a big, mean, crease clearing dman to protect the front of the crease, but he still needs to be mobile. his skating has always been my concern, along with his defensive acumen. like ive always said, im not a big fan of taking a guy high that does his best work standing still.... ala, fighting or playing mean in front of the crease.

secondly, like was said before, this isnt the 80's. mcilrath's best attributes are parts of the game that are being either lessoned by the speed/skill of the overall game or by the league looking to eliminate the brutality of fighting and the whole concussion issue.

im just not sure this guy will ever have enough game to make the kind of impact that gordie envisioned when he snagged him in 2010. im sure hell play and im sure he will carve out a nice career.

just not the career i would envision coming from the 10th pick.

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06-30-2014, 10:46 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Just musing here: If the Hugh Jessiman pick worked out, fans would be a lot more patient with McIlrath.
Most likely.

Personally, I like the kid a lot. He is easy to root for.

But, the Rangers should be looking to be more mobile on defense. If Stralman signs, where does McIlrath fit? Girardi, Stralman, Klein on the right side.

If Stralman walks, the spot opens up, but then Staal needs to be moved, IMO because having three less mobile defensemen (Staal, Girardi, McIlrath) is not inline with what Vigneault's system is about.

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06-30-2014, 10:48 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Being a 7th D-man does virtually nothing for his development. What a strange thing to hope for.

I don't think he meant #7 the same way Falk was #7. He meant that McIlrath will play in Hartford, but whenever there's an injury, he'll get a call up as opposed to Falk (or a similar player) dressing. Our designated #7 will seat in the stands the whole season, with Allen and MCI getting the call ups.

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