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Free Agency 2014 (Part 2)

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Old
07-07-2014, 12:52 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Vinny would have been moved by now if Hextall was willing to eat salary.

Hextall really could back himself into a corner with a ton of dead space if he does hence why he has to be careful right now. We'll likely be docked $2M+ for next year with bonuses on Timonen's deal. Then you have high bonuses on Gostisbehere & Morin potentially along with moderate size ones with Laughton. Also if buy out Umberger out in his last year you'll have about $1.5M in dead space for two years. You also have to do this while having the Pronger contract still on the books.
Kimmo's maximum bonus is only $1.5 million, and Laughton has no performance bonuses in the first year of his deal. So the bonus overage for next season should be manageable.

But I do agree with your point that Hextall needs to be careful about retaining salary on Vinny's contract because that will carry on for four years. The Flyers are currently positioned to maximize the upper limit using LTIR Option 2 if they want to. So they don't need to trade Lecavalier.

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07-07-2014, 01:03 PM
  #877
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it's probably better now just to wait until the trade deadline to move Vinny. teams don't get desperate in the summer, but they do in March.

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07-07-2014, 01:04 PM
  #878
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If we could ship off grossmann and lecavalier and pick up Ott and Hayes to our forward group i would be very happy!


Raffl Giroux Voracek

Hayes Schenn Simmonds

Umberger Couts Read

Akeson Ott Bellemare



That gives us 4 equal lines to run.
Each line is speedy, and this for sure looks better than last year.
Raffl on the 1st line is "meh" forsure. But it equals out all the other lines.
Also if you gave raffl another shot there i feel he would improve his finish.
last year i have never seen so many chances with one line, he is bound to improve as he was an aged rookie.

As for D fence


Coburn Timonen
Schenn MacD
Streit Schultz


Putting Schultz with Streit, gives Streit someone with speed and a stay at home D man.
A slightly improved defence without grossmann.

and gives us a full year with Laughton,Ghost, etc in the minors!
So that next year...

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07-07-2014, 01:07 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Kimmo's maximum bonus is only $1.5 million, and Laughton has no performance bonuses in the first year of his deal. So the bonus overage for next season should be manageable.

But I do agree with your point that Hextall needs to be careful about retaining salary on Vinny's contract because that will carry on for four years. The Flyers are currently positioned to maximize the upper limit using LTIR Option 2 if they want to. So they don't need to trade Lecavalier.
I honestly didn't check Timonen's numbers but I knew about Laughton not having one for this upcoming season but in year two & three when he has one for $200K+ & $400K+ on top of Morin's which is $500K for all three years & Gostisbehere's is $600K+ in year two & three.

If we just have Timonen's on the books next year we'll be fine but add Vinny's hit to it then things start to get dicey & possibly worse down the road with potential bonuses from not only those guys but possibly Sanheim & whoever else we draft in that as well on top of potentially buying out Umberger & carrying a dead cap hit as well for two years. It may not seem like a whole lot but potentially having multi-million dollars in dead space is a lot to a cap team like the Flyers.

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07-07-2014, 01:09 PM
  #880
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I wonder who the big free agents will be in 2017 when Pronger's contract is finally off the books.

Stamkos is 2016, unfortunately.

EDIT - Jaime Benn and Victor Hedman seems like the two biggest names, discounting all the guys who will be mid to late 30's.

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents?y...1&fa_type_id=2


Last edited by Curufinwe: 07-07-2014 at 01:19 PM.
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07-07-2014, 01:11 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Kimmo's maximum bonus is only $1.5 million, and Laughton has no performance bonuses in the first year of his deal. So the bonus overage for next season should be manageable.

But I do agree with your point that Hextall needs to be careful about retaining salary on Vinny's contract because that will carry on for four years. The Flyers are currently positioned to maximize the upper limit using LTIR Option 2 if they want to. So they don't need to trade Lecavalier.
Also have to consider the cap will rise again next year and they don't have anybody notable on an expiring contract who they would have to re-sign. The whole cap situation could look a lot brighter next year, mid season trades may still happen to give us some sort of cap relief... it's not the end of the world if Lecavalier stays for now.

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07-07-2014, 01:19 PM
  #882
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Umberger, Vinny, Grossmann are three players that if we want to have flexibility going forward that need to be moved. Hopefully Umberger rebounds and has a good year this year with us. Vinny, if still here, has to rebound to improve his stock. Grossmann if he remains healthy, will garner a good return at the deadline or summer.

The next tier that would be tradeable would be MacDonald, Luke Schenn, Streit, Coburn. If Hexy really wants to shape this team the way he wants, I wouldn't mind any of those guys going. It's a lot of work for him to dig out of and I don't think it's going to happen for 2 years or so.

On a side note, Dater thinks the Avs offered Statsny 35 over 6 years. That's a competitive offer he refused.

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Last edited by Prongo: 07-07-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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Old
07-07-2014, 01:33 PM
  #883
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On a side note, Dater thinks the Avs offered Statsny 35 over 6 years. That's a competitive offer he refused.
Doesn't shocked me that he walked. I know if I were a player, I'd have a tough time spending my entire career in one place. At some point, I'd like to see what it's like elsewhere. Never understood why players like Suter, Parise, Stastny, etc. get blasted for taking advantage of UFA. Though, Stastny much less than the former two.

There's just no reason to ever criticize a guy for taking advantage of his UFA rights, imo.

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07-07-2014, 01:35 PM
  #884
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Doesn't shocked me that he walked. I know if I were a player, I'd have a tough time spending my entire career in one place. At some point, I'd like to see what it's like elsewhere. Never understood why players like Suter, Parise, Stastny, etc. get blasted for taking advantage of UFA. Though, Stastny much less than the former two.

There's just no reason to ever criticize a guy for taking advantage of his UFA rights, imo.
I have no problem with players hitting the UFA market. They earn that right and I know if I was ever in their position, it would be an extremely difficult decision to go between money or winning. If I was offered a large amount of money over term with a bottom feeder, I would hope they turn it around and make it to the dance. The money sometimes is too good to give up.

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07-07-2014, 01:39 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I wonder who the big free agents will be in 2017 when Pronger's contract is finally off the books.

Stamkos is 2016, unfortunately.

EDIT - Jaime Benn and Victor Hedman seems like the two biggest names, discounting all the guys who will be mid to late 30's.

http://www.capgeek.com/free-agents?y...1&fa_type_id=2
we will find a way

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07-07-2014, 01:41 PM
  #886
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we will find a way
Frank Seravalli will be the first to beat that drum. What will be fun to watch is the pay day that Stamkos is going to get. He probably will be the first to crack 11/12 million per year.

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07-07-2014, 01:47 PM
  #887
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Also, Eklund says Lecavalier to Nashville is still a possibility, and signing Ott could hinge upon this. Not necessarily credible nor a revelation of any kind, but the rumor mill has dried up, so make of it what you will.

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07-07-2014, 01:47 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Vinny would have been moved by now if Hextall was willing to eat salary.

Hextall really could back himself into a corner with a ton of dead space if he does hence why he has to be careful right now. We'll likely be docked $2M+ for next year with bonuses on Timonen's deal. Then you have high bonuses on Gostisbehere & Morin potentially along with moderate size ones with Laughton. Also if buy out Umberger out in his last year you'll have about $1.5M in dead space for two years. You also have to do this while having the Pronger contract still on the books.
Thankfully the Flyers don't have any important contracts expiring next season, so he'll have two years of the cap surely going up before he has to deal with losing players. And there are further implications of that:
- The cap going up can boost the trade value of some overpaid players, especially if they have rebound years.
- If the Umberger experiment fails badly and we wait two seasons to buy him out, and the cap hit would only be $1.5M for two seasons.
- A lot can happen in those two years, for better or worse. That doesn't only apply to our team but other teams as well. If Hextall can be patient, opportunities will present themselves to dump excess salary. The offseason is the worst possible time for that, since everyone's healthy and the standings are a blank slate.
- We'll hopefully have NHL-ready young players in two years who can perform without eating into the cap.

Of course, this hampers our ability to sign overpriced UFAs or trade promising prospects for high-salary veterans, but that may not be the worst thing in the world given our condition.

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07-07-2014, 01:56 PM
  #889
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Also, Eklund says Lecavalier to Nashville is still a possibility, and signing Ott could hinge upon this. Not necessarily credible nor a revelation of any kind, but the rumor mill has dried up, so make of it what you will.
thats what i am afraid of haha

i said this on the main board earlier, im hoping winnik, and not ott, is the guy we are waiting to sign...

and i dont even want winnik that bad haha just dont want any part of ott

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07-07-2014, 01:58 PM
  #890
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Winnik is the much better option over Ott

Still want that ROR for Coburn+(something b level) trade to happen....

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07-07-2014, 02:16 PM
  #891
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Winnik is the much better option over Ott

Still want that ROR for Coburn+(something b level) trade to happen....
Coburn + VL (Salary Dump, plus a decent veteran to go along with Iginla), + that 3rd we just got + 2nd 2016 + Akeson (I don't know, he gets a lot of love around here...mabe COL will like him?)

I'd do it.

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07-07-2014, 02:21 PM
  #892
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Winnik is the much better option over Ott

Still want that ROR for Coburn+(something b level) trade to happen....
So were going to trade our best defenseman on what is already a bottom 5 defense in the league + for another center? I like ROR but that's a dumb move imo.

If one of Morin, Sanheim, Ghost or Hagg were ready to play a top 4 role I might be ok with it, but they aren't.

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07-07-2014, 02:21 PM
  #893
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Coburn + VL (Salary Dump, plus a decent veteran to go along with Iginla), + that 3rd we just got + 2nd 2016 + Akeson (I don't know, he gets a lot of love around here...mabe COL will like him?)

I'd do it.
I don't have any clue what the + would be but I don't think they would want Akeson. I am also not a fan of giving up picks(Hexy isn't either). I just have a sinking feeling that the Flyers might struggle next year. I think it makes more sense to look 1-2 years down the road right now instead of competing this year, which I am hoping Hexy does.

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07-07-2014, 02:23 PM
  #894
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So were going to trade our best defenseman on what is already a bottom 5 defense in the league + for another center? I like ROR but that's a dumb move imo.

If one of Morin, Sanheim, Ghost or Hagg were ready to play a top 4 role I might be ok with it, but they aren't.
I just replied a little bit of why I would make the move in the post above. I do not think the Flyers are a playoff team with the additions other teams made in our division. We haven't made any upgrades on our roster and I think I would worry more about the future than the here and now. Ryan O'Reilly is better for this team in the long run, especially with players like Morin, Hagg, Ghost and Sanheim all waiting in the wings.

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07-07-2014, 02:29 PM
  #895
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I just replied a little bit of why I would make the move in the post above. I do not think the Flyers are a playoff team with the additions other teams made in our division. We haven't made any upgrades on our roster and I think I would worry more about the future than the here and now. Ryan O'Reilly is better for this team in the long run, especially with players like Morin, Hagg, Ghost and Sanheim all waiting in the wings.
See, I do tend to agree with you, and it's even more irritating that our franchise player is now 26 and entering his prime. Are we expected to be ok with those years potentially being wasted by not doing whatever is necessary to improve the team? I know there isn't much Hextall can do, it's not as if #1 defensemen grow on trees. However, it's also not a good idea to trade the closest thing you have to a #1 defenseman because other teams have gotten a bit better.

In theory, our additions will be couturier, Schenn, Voracek and Simmonds being a year more experienced, and perhaps Bellemare can come in a contribute and perhaps Raffl can improve upon his first NA season. I'm not entirely sure all of that will pan out or make much of a difference, but I'm more inclined to bank on that than trade Coburn for another center we don't have room for.

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07-07-2014, 02:33 PM
  #896
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See, I do tend to agree with you, and it's even more irritating that our franchise player is now 26 and entering his prime. Are we expected to be ok with those years potentially being wasted by not doing whatever is necessary to improve the team? I know there isn't much Hextall can do, it's not as if #1 defensemen grow on trees. However, it's also not a good idea to trade the closest thing you have to a #1 defenseman because other teams have gotten a bit better.

In theory, our additions will be couturier, Schenn, Voracek and Simmonds being a year more experienced, and perhaps Bellemare can come in a contribute and perhaps Raffl can improve upon his first NA season. I'm not entirely sure all of that will pan out or make much of a difference, but I'm more inclined to bank on that than trade Coburn for another center we don't have room for.
A big part of your problem with Ryan O'Reilly is you seem to be under the impression he is a center and only a center? He played almost the whole year on the left wing this year and was excellent in his showing there. I am making this trade to solidify that top line for the next 3-4 years. The defense is in need of a make over, I actually wouldn't have a problem moving any of them.

I understand Coburn is the closest we have to being a #1 but I just want to remake this roster. The whole defense needs to be reshaped and retooled. We need mobile, puck movers who actually have an ounce of intelligence. Coburn lacks the last one which makes him movable in my eyes. I know this will hurt in the near future but I like the potential in the wings and would take the chance.

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07-07-2014, 02:36 PM
  #897
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I see a lot of people in different threads saying they think the Flyers will struggle and be worse this year... I don't agree with that. I honestly believe they will be better than last year because I haven't seen anything happen that would make me think they're going to be worse.

Mason will likely be about the same, he was fantastic for stretches and then just OK for a other stretches.. it's not like he has an unsustainable year that he can't replicate.

I think the defense is better simply because AMac is an improvement, disregarding contract, in a lot of ways... and especially over Mez, Gus, or Gill. Yeah, Timonen is a year older but I don't expect him to be much different than last year, especially if he's used properly. Grossmann can't really be any worse so hopefully whatever physical ailment was effecting his play after November is now better. If he plays like he did for the first two months of last season than he'll be usefull.

Offensively, we lose Hartnell, but if Schenn is given an increased role like he should then I would be shocked if he doesn't outproduce Hartnell. I don't see any of the forwards regressing as if they had inflated production last year, they should all produce roughly the same and hopefully people like Couturier, Schenn, and even someone like Raffl will likely see a more production, even if it's just slightly more. Plus, it looks like our 4th line will be significantly improved (if it does end up like most of us are speculating, something like Bellemare-Laughton-Raffl).

This may sound overly optimistic to some people but I don't think there's anything I said that's unrealistic...

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07-07-2014, 02:39 PM
  #898
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I don't have any clue what the + would be but I don't think they would want Akeson. I am also not a fan of giving up picks(Hexy isn't either). I just have a sinking feeling that the Flyers might struggle next year. I think it makes more sense to look 1-2 years down the road right now instead of competing this year, which I am hoping Hexy does.
Yeah IDK either. I was just throwing stuff out there. Second and third round picks I value a lot less than folks around here. Throwing in a third to me is no problem (we just traded Tye McGinn for a third...chances are the guy we draft will be as good or worse than McGinn in a couple years...so I would equate that third to adding Tye McGinn). Akeson I feel folks overvalue around here, but due to that fact I thought maybe Colorado would too. Just throwing crap out there. Maybe the 2nd and 3rd is too much, so just take one or the other. Draft picks aren't worthless, but if I can have ROR and give up VL's salary, I'll to what essentially boils down to ROR for Coburn+a pile of crap. That being said, I don't think Colorado even really would entertain that trade. Haha.

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07-07-2014, 02:41 PM
  #899
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I hope they sign Ott to a 7 year contract so I get to witness a miracle of nature when one of you gives birth to actual kittens.

Worth it.

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07-07-2014, 02:47 PM
  #900
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If I am trading Coburn apart of a deal, I want a better defender coming back. It's not necessarily about winning or losing, you want these younger defenders to be eased into roles rather than just throw them right into the fire & possibly take a turn for the worse in their development because you didn't provide a healthy enough situation for them succeed.

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