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The impact of JD&JK

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:43 PM
  #76
spintheblackcircle
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Again, no one is saying that the success of the Jackets greatly depended on resigning D-Mac. But we're a worse team without him.
I'd rather have Gibbons and D'Amigo than D-Mac.

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07-04-2014, 02:37 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
I'd rather have Gibbons and D'Amigo than D-Mac.
Those are independent decisions, you could have had all three.

In any case, the acquisitions D'Amigo and Gibbons make me feel a lot better about where our fourth line is going. I retract what I said about Jarmo earlier. He goes back to being a straight Incomplete in my book.

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07-04-2014, 02:37 PM
  #78
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JD is great and JK is poor doesn't make sence because deciding who is going to be BJ's GM is by far the biggest decision JD had to make if thinking teams success on ice. By evaluating JD you also have to include that he hired JK. If JK is poor then JD can be at max decent.


Last edited by agent082: 07-04-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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07-07-2014, 04:30 PM
  #79
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Not this guy..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I'd trade all that to have Moore back.
I never saw the skill & skating that made John Moore a first round pick. He may yet develop, & I will be watching with interest

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07-07-2014, 04:59 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
I'd trade all that to have Moore back.
I would have been right with you at the time of the trade, but Murray pretty much made me forget about Moore. And Prout, and Savard (can't believe I said that).

I think with Moore it's one of those things where the 'idea' of Moore is better than the reality of Moore. Kind of like Kris Russell...relatively speaking - I'm not saying they're equivalent.

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07-07-2014, 11:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by SuperGenius View Post
I would have been right with you at the time of the trade, but Murray pretty much made me forget about Moore. And Prout, and Savard (can't believe I said that).

I think with Moore it's one of those things where the 'idea' of Moore is better than the reality of Moore. Kind of like Kris Russell...relatively speaking - I'm not saying they're equivalent.
Moore and Russell are pretty similar in how baffling their failure to break through has been. Both are excellent skaters, both seem to have the hockey IQ, and both have above average physical skills. And both just have not put it together despite quite a few chances.

Russell is 27 and still hasn't broken through; I'd have to believe he's unlikely to do so. Moore is somehow only 23, but considering how quickly someone with a much better track record (Del Zotto) got bounced out at the same age...

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07-13-2014, 08:58 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Moore and Russell are pretty similar in how baffling their failure to break through has been. Both are excellent skaters, both seem to have the hockey IQ, and both have above average physical skills. And both just have not put it together despite quite a few chances.

Russell is 27 and still hasn't broken through; I'd have to believe he's unlikely to do so. Moore is somehow only 23, but considering how quickly someone with a much better track record (Del Zotto) got bounced out at the same age...
Maybe but Moore played as a regular for every game he was eligible for last year for the Eastern Conference champions. He's a lot bigger than Russell, and is still 23. I think it a bit early to call John Moore a bust. Frankly, he may end up being the guy we miss the most from that deal.

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Old
07-13-2014, 09:50 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
Maybe but Moore played as a regular for every game he was eligible for last year for the Eastern Conference champions. He's a lot bigger than Russell, and is still 23. I think it a bit early to call John Moore a bust. Frankly, he may end up being the guy we miss the most from that deal.


IMO Moore will be a good NHLer, I was a little upset when he went to the Rangers apart of that deal. But our D prospect pool was loaded, would of been nice to keep him though.

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12-19-2016, 10:03 AM
  #84
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bump

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Old
12-19-2016, 05:36 PM
  #85
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I always look back on these past posts with trepidation, but in this one I look like a friggin genius.

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12-23-2016, 03:25 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
I always look back on these past posts with trepidation, but in this one I look like a friggin genius.
I remember when JK took the team they were last in standings, now leading ..good for you guys

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12-23-2016, 01:48 PM
  #87
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This thread doesn't cover any big debates about the FO's vision or overall competence. Just a lot of justifiable vetching over what the FO has admitted were mistakes (acquiring Gaborik and letting Mackenzie go).

Crazy the stuff you find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Actually, it's potentially 4 picks now. Jarmo took the 3rd he got from LA (Edmonton's #63) and traded down for #76 in 2014 and a 3rd rounder in 2015 (Detroit).

So, for posterity, I believe the current tally is now Brassard, Dorsett, Moore for:

Jerry D'Amigo
2014 3rd round pick: Elvis Merzliknis
2015 2nd round pick: (Toronto's)
2015 3rd round pick: (Detroit's)
2015 7th round pick: (Toronto; conditional with condition unknown)

Hopefully, one of the picks hit.
There didn't end up being another 7th, and the 2nd and 3rd were traded to move back up and take Gabe Carlsson. And of course D'Amigo turned into nothing. So Carlsson and Merzlikins.

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Old
07-11-2017, 05:53 PM
  #88
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So what are people's opinions on Jarmo right now?

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07-11-2017, 06:56 PM
  #89
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To me, the GMJK report card is incomplete. This year will help establish a grade. Actually one of his best moves so far was making basically no moves going into last season. He could have panicked after the disaster of the 2015-16 season, but he didn't. That was a solid move. Is the Torts hire JD? JK? Or both?...certainly the right move.

There's lots of picking on some individual moves and some are surprising to me. The debate over the RJ-Hartnell trade is most surprising. The buyout is certainly highly debatable , but the jury was out for less than five minutes for the verdict on the trade. A few comments on some of the other angst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post


We have four defensemen who are already better than John Moore, and that doesn't include Savard, who is comparable. No thanks.
Couldn't agree moore (sic)....almost like revisionist history being raised on Moore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
There didn't end up being another 7th, and the 2nd and 3rd were traded to move back up and take Gabe Carlsson. And of course D'Amigo turned into nothing. So Carlsson and Merzlikins.
A lot hinges on Elvis' development.....but if he does pan out, does this play out as a good exchange for Brass, Dorset, and Moore?

Also regarding the DMac discussion....I liked him a lot and thought he was worth saving, but we are talking about a 4C and as it played out, last year the 4th line was a strength for the team.

As I said, the JK report card is incomplete but here's a question we should be asking: Is the direction for this team trending Up or Down? How you view that should be more important than the dissecting the individual moves.

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Old
07-11-2017, 06:58 PM
  #90
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My opinion right now is, holy cow what a necro.

It's been an ongoing discussion. Nothing has really changed all that much. He'll make a good trade or signing and then sign some player to a silly long deal for too much money and give them a NMC. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of him as GM but I'm really not in a hurry to call for a new GM either.

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07-11-2017, 07:53 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
So what are people's opinions on Jarmo right now?
I'm curious, you seem pretty darn interested in people's opinion on Jarmo. Can I ask why? It'll probably help one of us give you a more satisfactory answer:

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07-16-2017, 09:36 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
I'm curious, you seem pretty darn interested in people's opinion on Jarmo. Can I ask why? It'll probably help one of us give you a more satisfactory answer:
"Pretty darn" is a bit too much don't you think? I've asked it a couple times in two years.

What's so weird about a someone not living in NA being curious what people in NA think of the only Finnish general manager in the league? This is a message board, isn't it?

For me there's really nothing else interesting about this organization except the GM. I am deeply sorry for that.

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07-17-2017, 12:53 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
So what are people's opinions on Jarmo right now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
"Pretty darn" is a bit too much don't you think? I've asked it a couple times in two years.

What's so weird about a someone not living in NA being curious what people in NA think of the only Finnish general manager in the league? This is a message board, isn't it?

For me there's really nothing else interesting about this organization except the GM. I am deeply sorry for that.
No apologies necessary, just that your ID doesn't indicate where you are from and/or which team you root for.

Later Round Draft Picks
Jarmo is probably thought of as a very good evaluator of young talent - his draft results have been generally good, although imo it is still too early to tell. He has made some good finds in later rounds (Bjorkstrand 3rd, Stenlund, 2nd, Gavrikov 6th, Nutivaara 7th, Abramov 3rd being the current examples most cite as good later round picks). However, none of those later round picks have yet to hit the home run - all seem to be good prospects, Bjorkstrand and Nutivaara maybe a step beyond prospect, but none are that proven yet. Sometimes forget that Jarmo's first draft for CBJ was 2013, so some of those prospects just getting to the stage of development where making CBJ roster was even thought of as a possibility. He sometimes gets credit for development/identification of Jenner, Murray (sometimes), etc..., but those players were drafted by prior GM.

First Round Draft Picks.
Jury still out - mixed bag.
2013 (JK's first draft for CBJ) - snared Wennberg w/ 14OA pick, looks to be solid playmaker as a 1/2C (not elite but solid and getting better, may have significant more upside).
On the flip-side, Rychel (19OA) and Dano (27OA) both since traded for other assets. Rychel demanded a trade (probably good riddance) fetched a 7/8 defenseman (Harrington) plus a conditional 5th round pick from TOR, Rychel nothing special for TOR; Dano was part of initial trade for Saad (now Panarin), but Anisimov was the centerpiece going to CHI in that trade. Dano since traded again - has not busted out yet. Overall the Rychel/Dano picks seem nothing special to date.

2014 Milano was 16OA, jury still out, but has not been an all-out bust yet. Many on here disappointed by Milano's failure to even make CBJ roster yet - 2017-18 season will be telling.

2015 Werenski 8OA - outstanding rookie season, looks to have great chance to be elite, appears to have been JK's guy all along, seems like a grand slam pick of a D-man.

2016 Dubois 3OA - jury still out, not enough data to have any rating on the pick. Many here expect 3OA, especially in 2016 draft, to be bordering elite. Matthews and Laine were elite in many facets of the game. Most shocked that Dubois selected ahead of Puljujarvi, and thus expecting either elite out of the box or hang Jarmo for the pick. Puljujarvi's struggles this first season with EDM do not necessarily make the Dubois pick taste better (yet), but certainly supports JK's reluctance to draft Puljujarvi with the 3OA pick.

Asset management
Miss or hit, with leaning toward miss. JK's first major FA signing was Nathan Horton, which whether due to bad luck, bad injury, or bad handling of contract insurance, bedeviled JK from the start. Horton became Clarkson, and now Clarkson just jettisoned to Vegas as part of expansion draft trade. The endgames of getting Clarkson and then dumping Clarkson on Vegas were probably well-managed, but Horton up front has at least appeared at times to be a gross mistake - but we will never know the entire backdrop.

Gaborik trade (in and out), on balance was not the best of moves.
Acquiring Hartnell in exchange for Umberger turned out to be a good move, even with Hartnell just bought out last month.
Trading Johansen for Seth Jones appears to be a winner for CBJ; Johansen is very skilled and seems happier in NSH; he needed change of scenery. Good trade for both clubs.
Losing the guy (Karlson) that JK wanted to lose in the expansion draft was well-handled, especially with it including Clarkson's contract...Not all will agree with assets lost, but on par looks good.
Probably a little hasty with NMC's and longer term contracts for Dubinsky and Foligno.
Bobrovsky got paid a significant $ on his contract, some complain about that, but term was limited to 4 years...not sure what to think of that, as Bob has been mostly stellar in regular season when healthy, but shaky at best in 2 PO appearances (1 before, 1 after the extension). Remains to be seen. If CBJ win the SC in 18 or 19, with Bob in net, the extension signed in in 2015 will look good; Jarmo will earn his stripes in figuring out what to do with Bob after the 2018-19 season.

Coaching, Etc...
Not sure how much he was involved in decision to hire Torterella - mostly thought of as a John Davidson hire.

Overall, probably better than average thus far, but not by a huge margin, and jury still out on lots of moves. If CBJ follows 2016-17 season with another stellar season and a decent run in the PO's, JK's stock goes up. If CBJ misses playoffs or is a first round quick exit, he will be excoriated....just like every other GM in the NHL who didn't get to the SCF!


Last edited by Forepar: 07-20-2017 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Fixed error as to Wennberg's draft year
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Old
07-18-2017, 01:15 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forepar View Post
He sometimes gets credit for development/identification of Wennberg, Jenner, etc..., but those players were drafted by prior GM.

First Round Draft Picks.
Jury still out - mixed bag.
2013 (JK's first draft for CBJ) - snared Wennberg w/ 14OA pick, looks to be solid playmaker as a 1/2C (not elite but solid and getting better, may have significant more upside).
Small quibble, but just clarifying the inconsistency in the bolded here. Jarmo did draft Wennberg.

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Old
07-18-2017, 01:38 PM
  #95
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I think the Dano pick was a success because it provided short term value for the Jackets in the form of his season or so of production as well as long term value by serving as a primary piece in returning Saad. There we can see that Dano's actual value was closer to a mid-1st than the late 1st rounder used on him.

Same goes for Keegan Kolesar who went from a 3rd round pick to worth a mid-2nd.

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07-18-2017, 07:11 PM
  #96
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07-19-2017, 07:33 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeger View Post
"Pretty darn" is a bit too much don't you think? I've asked it a couple times in two years.

What's so weird about a someone not living in NA being curious what people in NA think of the only Finnish general manager in the league? This is a message board, isn't it?

For me there's really nothing else interesting about this organization except the GM. I am deeply sorry for that.
No offense intend, apologies if it came off this way, I was just curious. I guess it's just a little unusual to see people asking questions that don't contain "I have Person X in a fantasy league..."

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07-20-2017, 09:53 AM
  #98
Forepar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Small quibble, but just clarifying the inconsistency in the bolded here. Jarmo did draft Wennberg.
Thanks, good catch. Fixed it. I caught it later when doing the details but then didn't fix the opening paragraphs....Better stick to my day job.

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Old
07-21-2017, 10:02 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Forepar View Post
2015 Werenski 8OA - outstanding rookie season, looks to have great chance to be elite, appears to have been JK's guy all along, seems like a grand slam pick of a D-man.
Looking back, the 2015 draft could be one of the best drafts in Jackets history.

Obviously it's TBD the full impact that Werenski, Nutivaara, Carlson and Gavrikov will have or how their careers turn out. But as of now, only 2 seasons later, it looks like we have 4 NHL ready dmen

On top of two NHL primed forwards in Stenlund and Kolesar

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Old
07-21-2017, 11:36 AM
  #100
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Personally, I would have to say that Jarmo & Jd have done a remarkable job. We went from having priest/howson making hockey decisions and the fallout of not having a proper front office. When they came in, our organizational depth was a mess, our defense was a mess. Current day, they have made our defense one of the best in the league, and probably one of the youngest in the league. Offensively, I believe we were or have been in the top half of the league the past couple years, were in great shape cap wise. Our organizational depth is stacked top to bottom, and our drafting has been damn good the past few years.

They have made quite a few big boy trades, where the Jackets were able to get a franchise type defenseman in Jones, and with Panarin, possibly a top 10 player in the league. In both trades it makes our team remarkably better.

In the beginning, Jarmo did have to over pay a few players to keep them here, and that created a little bit of a salary cap hell, but a lot of that was the Narrative of the Bluejackets. In 5 years, we are now a team that free agents , and players want to come to . A destination that is now seen as a team that can contend for the cup. And that makes negotiating contracts much easier. If Jarmo is able to get Duchene, without overpaying substantially , I would have to give the front office a solid A rating. Currently I'm probably at a B+ rating for them overall.


Last edited by The Bread Man: 07-21-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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