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Sabres and Sens talking trade?

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Old
07-02-2014, 01:27 PM
  #51
SpezDispenser
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
You mean our leading scorer in that playoff series? Also, we're minus Gonchar
Yeah, him. Things have changed though, Turris is 2 years older and the better for it, Zibanejad will be coming into his own, Ryan is here now, MacArthur.

This team's future is just as bright today as it was last off-season when people were killing themselves to compliment them, but a lot of those same people are so incredibly short-sighted that they let last season dictate the way they think about the organization.

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07-02-2014, 01:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
This team's future is just as bright today as it was last off-season when people were killing themselves to compliment them, but a lot of those same people are so incredibly short-sighted that they let last season dictate the way they think about the organization.
Just a quick question --- where is this team if MacArthur, Ryan, Methot and/or Anderson tell GMBM that they want to test free agency? What if they believe Spezza (and before him Alfie) and question the team's commitment to winning, by bringing in players or spending to keep their key players?

Do we ride them out this year and let them walk or trade them for futures?

Are we a playoff team if any of the above 4 decide to move on? How are we if two of the 4 state they won't extend?

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07-02-2014, 01:32 PM
  #53
PensBandwagonerNo272
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Even if Anderson does suck next year - and I see no reason why he would - we have Lehner waiting in the wings to take over.

And...Karlsson will be just fine. He'll have the summer to rehab and then we'll see how he fairs. I can see him coming back as the dominant D-man that won the Norris 3 seasons ago.

There's no reason to think Turris, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Ceci etc. won't take big step forwards next year in their development, but why argue with you, you don't have a clue what you're talking about when it comes to the Sens.
Do you honestly think the Senators can become a contender with their current core though?

Spezza and Alfie obviously didn't.

I think becoming a lottery team is a best case scenario at this point.

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07-02-2014, 01:33 PM
  #54
Tim Murray
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If I'm the Sens, I keep my picks and add more by selling off a few assets now. Essentially tank.

I wouldn't go as far as the Sabres have gone though. Who knows if that will work. It is a grand experiment though!

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07-02-2014, 01:35 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Yeah, him. Things have changed though, Turris is 2 years older and the better for it, Zibanejad will be coming into his own, Ryan is here now, MacArthur.

This team's future is just as bright today as it was last off-season when people were killing themselves to compliment them, but a lot of those same people are so incredibly short-sighted that they let last season dictate the way they think about the organization.
meh, sports is emotional. and frustrating. especially if you have a Melnyk-type owner. people will get over it by the time the season starts. just like with alfie last year. personally, I think we played over our head two years ago and, on paper, are more like the team from last year. but maybe that's just me. and hockey isn't player on paper.

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07-02-2014, 01:41 PM
  #56
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This isnt even speculation.

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07-02-2014, 01:53 PM
  #57
SpezDispenser
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
Do you honestly think the Senators can become a contender with their current core though?

Spezza and Alfie obviously didn't.

I think becoming a lottery team is a best case scenario at this point.
What do you mean? Yeah, I do. Ryan, Turris, MacArthur, Lazar, Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci, Lehner, Zibanejad, Chiasson. What's wrong with that as a core?

Jesus, not every one of us can win the birth lottery and pick Crosby and Malkin.

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07-02-2014, 01:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BigCanadian View Post
Just a quick question --- where is this team if MacArthur, Ryan, Methot and/or Anderson tell GMBM that they want to test free agency? What if they believe Spezza (and before him Alfie) and question the team's commitment to winning, by bringing in players or spending to keep their key players?

Do we ride them out this year and let them walk or trade them for futures?

Are we a playoff team if any of the above 4 decide to move on? How are we if two of the 4 state they won't extend?
Okay IF Ryan tells management he wants to go elsewhere, we're in deep, deep trouble. That is a huge if on July 2nd - precisely 1 day after Ryan could have potentially signed an extension. To a lesser extent I'd put MacArthur as a very important piece to re-sign as well. Let's wait and see what happens, shall we?

Anderson I don't care about anymore, this is Lehner's team pretty much...now. Methot is good, but it isn't bone-crushing to us if he wants out lol.

EDIT: I couldn't care less if Spezza didn't think we could win. He's asked for a 4 times out of Ottawa because he can't handle the pressure of playing here. If he was a winner, he'd have fought through that, but he's really not. Alfie was handled terribly by this organization, but aside from that, there's nothing wrong with what the Sens have done - and we haven't even seen the moves they're going to make this summer past the Spezza trade. So, who knows? I would have traded Spezza regardless if I was Murray, the time's up for him here. It was a lot of fun, but we haven't won a thing with the old guard - how long would you have put up with that?

And Alfie chose Detroit for some reason when leaving the Sens, so clearly he didn't leave to win a Stanley Cup - because I think any one of us could have told him he had zero chance in Detroit. He left because we messed up with his negotiations and it should and won't be forgotten anytime soon.

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07-02-2014, 02:24 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
Stewart for Borowiki and a 1st
That's just horrendous.

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07-02-2014, 02:46 PM
  #60
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That depends on what BM thinks of the 2.

If he values them like most do (an inconsistent 2nd liner and a young 50 point center with solid potential) I doubt he makes that trade.

If he values them highly though, I could see it maybe being a fit.

I think Stewart to Ottawa with a potential top 6 forward coming back is being discussed. Prince or Puempel maybe.

We have no true sniper prospects apart from.. Luke Adam.
Joel Armia?...or are we giving up on him already (just like we're giving up on grigorenko)

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07-02-2014, 02:47 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Okay IF Ryan tells management he wants to go elsewhere, we're in deep, deep trouble. That is a huge if on July 2nd - precisely 1 day after Ryan could have potentially signed an extension. To a lesser extent I'd put MacArthur as a very important piece to re-sign as well. Let's wait and see what happens, shall we?

Anderson I don't care about anymore, this is Lehner's team pretty much...now. Methot is good, but it isn't bone-crushing to us if he wants out lol.
The fact is --- the Sens need to decide what they are doing. Going for it, or rebuild. Murray publicly said rebuild is over, but what else is he supposed to say precisely when the question is posed in a presser?

While it would be nice to wait and see how we do, and we may indeed do that to an extent, our ability to make the playoffs much less actually contend for the cup rests on whether our core vets are going to resign. If they walk, we are in a rebuild, whether we like it or not. I am suggesting that fans are concerned (I am) that if we bring in an older player, and don't know where we stand on these 4 (Ryan, Anderson, Methot and MacA) then we are delusional. By the time we are rebuilt, he will be gone or less useful. That is fine for free agent signings, but not when trading away futures for a rebuilding team.

Ottawa needs to understand what the situation is with these players. If they won't extend, do we trade them or just let them walk? If we trade them, how are our playoff chances without them this year? If we let them walk for nothing, how do we effectively rebuild?

While you say you don't care about Anderson, I would argue that Lehner has not shown he can carry the team on his own yet. Without Anderson, if Lehner slumps and/or get's injured, then we are done this year.

While you mock Methot leaving, do you really believe we have the defensive depth to support his departure? Sure there are a couple of kids coming, but they are not NHL ready by a long shot, especially as the rumour is that a d-man has to move early this year, as we have too many on 1-way deals. We could go from too many to too few after trading one and then at the deadline moving Methot.

If any/all of them walk, what free agents will sign with us next year to replace them? Remember - we won't overpay as a budget team and the MacArthurs are very hard to find.

Quote:
EDIT: I couldn't care less if Spezza didn't think we could win. He's asked for a 4 times out of Ottawa because he can't handle the pressure of playing here. If he was a winner, he'd have fought through that, but he's really not.
Spezza told GMBM in his exit interview that he wants to win. If the Sens are serious about winning and were going to spend some money to bring in some supporting players, then he would prefer to stay and win a cup with Ottawa. If however they are going to remain a budget team, and not compete in the near future, then he sees a better chance at winning the cup in the last chapter of his NHL career elsewhere. Remember -- Alfie was here all his career too, until last year while in his late 30's. He decided too late to leave for a chance at the cup. Spezza chose to not repeat that mistake, and I don't blame him for it. Winners realize when they are fighting a losing battle and adjust.

It will depend on what GMBM does. If he brings in a player like Stewart and gives up prospect(s), pick(s) and a young player, we are much worse off. Stewart isn't an answer. I think we are in rebuild whether fans want to admit it or not.

Furthermore, why would Ryan resign without knowing whether Methot, Anderson and MacArthur are leaving/resigning? It is possible he does, but why would he realistically do that?

I know it is day two, don't freak out. I am not, but I am trying to be realistic here. Dorion indicated that there would be a lot of activity by the Sens on July 1st. The rumours were that a Ryan extension was ready to be announced on July 1st. The fact it didn't happen (and nothing else positive did) makes me wonder whether Ryan now wants to see what we look like before he decides where this team is headed. Who knows.

You can continue to look at the glass is 1/4 full, which in this case I realistically see as 3/4 empty, all the while other teams continue to pour more drink into their glasses, even if they are expensive.

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07-02-2014, 02:48 PM
  #62
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Buf should try to do everything possible to get Ottawa's first round pick this upcoming season..they're gonna be terrible. Plus i see bobby ryan leaving at the trade deadline, along with a couple others like Methot and Anderson. Which will give them a late season push for the mcdavid sweepstakes lol

Trade Stewart, Hodgson, 2nd for their 1st and a prospect

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07-02-2014, 02:50 PM
  #63
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Hodgson and/or stewart would be welcomed addition and would be who ottawa is targetting

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07-02-2014, 02:52 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BigCanadian View Post
Spezza told GMBM in his exit interview that he wants to win.
Spezza wants to win, but would prefer if others did the heavy lifting for him. The Toronto boy just saw an excuse to get out of Ottawa that would allow him to save face.

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07-02-2014, 02:53 PM
  #65
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Stewart was a target to play with Spezza. We lack speed in our top 6 and adding Stewart would turn us from a team with below average speed to a slow team.

I don't think Buffalo has the type of players available that would be enticing to Ottawa at this point. Murray is probably looking for a skilled and speedy NHL player with some proven scoring ability. At least that's my guess.

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07-02-2014, 02:55 PM
  #66
SpezDispenser
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The fact is --- the Sens need to decide what they are doing. Going for it, or rebuild. Murray publicly said rebuild is over, but what else is he supposed to say precisely when the question is posed in a presser?

While it would be nice to wait and see how we do, and we may indeed do that to an extent, our ability to make the playoffs much less actually contend for the cup rests on whether our core vets are going to resign. If they walk, we are in a rebuild, whether we like it or not. I am suggesting that fans are concerned (I am) that if we bring in an older player, and don't know where we stand on these 4 (Ryan, Anderson, Methot and MacA) then we are delusional. By the time we are rebuilt, he will be gone or less useful. That is fine for free agent signings, but not when trading away futures for a rebuilding team.

Ottawa needs to understand what the situation is with these players. If they won't extend, do we trade them or just let them walk? If we trade them, how are our playoff chances without them this year? If we let them walk for nothing, how do we effectively rebuild?

While you say you don't care about Anderson, I would argue that Lehner has not shown he can carry the team on his own yet. Without Anderson, if Lehner slumps and/or get's injured, then we are done this year.

While you mock Methot leaving, do you really believe we have the defensive depth to support his departure? Sure there are a couple of kids coming, but they are not NHL ready by a long shot, especially as the rumour is that a d-man has to move early this year, as we have too many on 1-way deals. We could go from too many to too few after trading one and then at the deadline moving Methot.

If any/all of them walk, what free agents will sign with us next year to replace them? Remember - we won't overpay as a budget team and the MacArthurs are very hard to find.



Spezza told GMBM in his exit interview that he wants to win. If the Sens are serious about winning and were going to spend some money to bring in some supporting players, then he would prefer to stay and win a cup with Ottawa. If however they are going to remain a budget team, and not compete in the near future, then he sees a better chance at winning the cup in the last chapter of his NHL career elsewhere. Remember -- Alfie was here all his career too, until last year while in his late 30's. He decided too late to leave for a chance at the cup. Spezza chose to not repeat that mistake, and I don't blame him for it. Winners realize when they are fighting a losing battle and adjust.

It will depend on what GMBM does. If he brings in a player like Stewart and gives up prospect(s), pick(s) and a young player, we are much worse off. Stewart isn't an answer. I think we are in rebuild whether fans want to admit it or not.

Furthermore, why would Ryan resign without knowing whether Methot, Anderson and MacArthur are leaving/resigning? It is possible he does, but why would he realistically do that?

I know it is day two, don't freak out. I am not, but I am trying to be realistic here. Dorion indicated that there would be a lot of activity by the Sens on July 1st. The rumours were that a Ryan extension was ready to be announced on July 1st. The fact it didn't happen (and nothing else positive did) makes me wonder whether Ryan now wants to see what we look like before he decides where this team is headed. Who knows.

You can continue to look at the glass is 1/4 full, which in this case I realistically see as 3/4 empty, all the while other teams continue to pour more drink into their glasses, even if they are expensive.
It's all part of the process. I think we definitely have the defensive depth to trade Methot for a winger. These are the kids that need to play big minutes in order to reach their potential. If I had a choice, I'd keep Methot, but I assume you've seen the same thing I've seen this July 1st - that is, guys like Brooks Orpik getting 5.5 X 5. Can you see the Sens wanting to pay Methot that? I doubt it.

Ryan and MacArthur are the two players that MUST be re-signed, everything else can fall into place rather easily. They'll let Anderson play out this year and they'll assess Lehner as they go. If he walks next off-season, so be it, Lehner will have proven himself. If Lehner hasn't proven himself, then that's a whole new issue they'll have to deal with.

You have to include your core players in your plans, MacArthur and Ryan need to know where we're heading and need to buy in. It's not a difficult sell either - we have quality youth already with more in the pipeline.

Spezza has asked this organization for a trade 4 times. He was given every opportunity to win in this city and hasn't delivered. He's a nice piece, but by now most people realize he's a complimentary piece - not 'the guy'. That's life, we enjoyed having him, but we're moving on. If we tank because of it, that's on the players and management, there's nothing we can do, but recent history suggests that we do better without Spezza in the lineup than with him. Why is that? It's a commitment to a team concept. We saw it in the lockout shortened season and we'll see it again.

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07-02-2014, 02:55 PM
  #67
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Spezza wants to win, but would prefer if others did the heavy lifting for him. The Toronto boy just saw an excuse to get out of Ottawa that would allow him to save face.
Exactly this.

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07-02-2014, 02:56 PM
  #68
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Didnt Murray say they were going to trade for a prominent NHL center pretty soon? could be Hodgson

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07-02-2014, 02:57 PM
  #69
SpezDispenser
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Buf should try to do everything possible to get Ottawa's first round pick this upcoming season..they're gonna be terrible. Plus i see bobby ryan leaving at the trade deadline, along with a couple others like Methot and Anderson. Which will give them a late season push for the mcdavid sweepstakes lol

Trade Stewart, Hodgson, 2nd for their 1st and a prospect
Once again, armchair GMs provide comedy gold.

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07-02-2014, 03:00 PM
  #70
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Stewart was a target to play with Spezza. We lack speed in our top 6 and adding Stewart would turn us from a team with below average speed to a slow team.

I don't think Buffalo has the type of players available that would be enticing to Ottawa at this point. Murray is probably looking for a skilled and speedy NHL player with some proven scoring ability. At least that's my guess.
Stewart isn't slow.....

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07-02-2014, 03:01 PM
  #71
SpezDispenser
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Stewart isn't slow.....
I don't think he's fleet of foot really.

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07-02-2014, 03:16 PM
  #72
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Stewart isn't slow.....
That's not what I've heard. He's definitely not fast though which is what I said Murray should and might be looking for since our speed is already below average.

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07-02-2014, 03:19 PM
  #73
Karl Eriksson
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Didnt Murray say they were going to trade for a prominent NHL center pretty soon? could be Hodgson
Did he ? Source ?

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07-02-2014, 03:20 PM
  #74
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Wiercioch, Greening, Prince.

If Lazar gets traded today I am leading the "Fire Murray!" protest

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07-02-2014, 03:39 PM
  #75
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What can sens fans tell me about mike hoffman?

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