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The Habs would have acquired Franson for Gorges

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Old
07-03-2014, 08:42 PM
  #126
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Good post.

After reading this thread, I'm convinced Franson is only highly thought of by people who don't watch him play. The guy is a marginally better, bigger Marc-Andre Bergeron.
"Highly thought of"? You're almost certainly right. But all things considered, I don't think it's unreasonable to think/expect that he'd be only a relatively small downgrade from Gorges overall for the length of either's contract moving forward. Not what I'd do, because man... Franson really shows a lack of smarts and intensity too often for me. And I'm no more enamoured with the tools of Franson than I am with Bourque; for similar reasons. Of course, if we're talking Franson at anywhere near current Gorges money, I'm out. Way out.

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Old
07-03-2014, 08:47 PM
  #127
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I don't know how it shakes out to look at it...but you can't make straight possession comparisons between players on different teams. You have to compare to the team they play for against teammates then factor in quality of opposition and teammates. Just throwing out numbers isn't a true assessment.

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:10 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
I'm making stuff up? I've watched him play about 100 games in the last three years. Well over half of those live. I've got a pretty good read on him. Let's see what you're take is...

Well, you open with a piece of fiction. If this was remotely true, he'd be playing a helluva a lot more for the Leafs. He almost never uses his size, which, other then his skating issues, is his biggest shortcoming. It's not so much that he doesn't win puck battles... It's worse then that, he very rarely engages in them.

His foot speed is slow but his skating is not? What the hell does that mean? He's slow. That's not an opinion, it's a simple fact. You would only need to watch him for a few minutes to figure that one out.

His first pass is far from an asset. It's an issue. He often moves the puck before deciding where it should go, or determining if the lane he is using is safe. More often than not, he just moves it quickly, to nobody, or to the opposition, or down the ice. He panics the moment the puck is on his stick behind his own blue line. He can't be counted on to make a smart play or a safe play.

Huh? You're praising his "unpredictability" that causes his own teammates to not know what he's going to do with the puck? You think that's a good thing? You say that "looks like horrible giveaways." Let me clear this up for you: They don't look like horrible giveaways *they are horrible giveaways.* A defenseman that makes plays that are unexpected and not easily predicted isn't a good thing, particularly when the result is the puck being given to the opposition or simply surrendered because he's not smart enough to find an open man or make an outlet pass.

The rest I just erased ... It seems like you're arguing *against* his value. I mean, saying that he was the runner up to Kris Russell, a journeyman defender barely hanging on to his NHL job isn't helping your cause. You claim that he had a breakout year in Nashville right before the Preds dumped him in a nothing trade for Matthew Lombardi. Here's a spoiler alert for the summer, the Leafs will dump him as well this summer. If he was even remotely the player you are suggesting, I assure you, the Leafs, with their lousy D-core, would be holding on to him and using him in their top 4 for years to come. But he's not that player. Not by a long shot.

I get that you were likely a big fan of him in his WHL days, but those days are long gone. He's an NHLer now, and not a very good one. He just hasn't put all the pieces together nor has he delivered on his potential. The Habs side-stepped a land mine here.
He sure seems like a horrible d-men.

But there is something I have a tough time to understand, he had 282 hits leading the Leafs. That's 30% more than Phaneuf who is in second position with more TOI. To put things in perspective, Emelin dominated the Habs with 236 hits back in 2010-11.
Now looking at Gilbert, a "much more physical d-men", I see 27, 47 and 55 hits when he was in Edmonton. He overdid it in Florida last year with 59 hits.
I know numbers don't tell the whole story but give me a break.

He was able to get 33 points with the Leafs ahead of Gardiner and Phaneuf who both had more TOI/G (was second for PP TOI).
He has two seasons of 29 points. One of them was in 2010-11 with the Preds where PP was given to Weber and Suter at first.

I do understand that he has some deficiency in defense but if he would be very good in defense, he would not be traded and would be paid 6M.

Still was third in TOI in Toronto. He had the worst +/- among Leafs d-men. So why did they keep him on the ice so much. Was 4th in ES TOI almost at par with Gunnarson who was third.

I saw Franson a few times and he did some errors and his first steps are a bit slow but he was not horrible in the game I saw.
I also trust that Habs scouting staff did their job in that trade.


What bother me the most, is that many are saying that a 2nd round pick of 2016 (50ish, this is Minny's pick) is better than Franson.

Then it goes on with the misrepresentation:
Gilbert + 2nd > Franson
Of course it is true but that is not the deal for Gorges:
Franson >> 2nd of Min 2016.

We could have had Gilbert AND Franson.
It was clear that MB was going after a UFA d-men to replace Gorges.
Anyone thinking that MB was going to put Franson in our top-4 is wrong.

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:23 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
I find it difficult to believe that with all of the good people Montreal have in their management team, the could possibly have been dumb enough to go after Cody Franson.

He doesn't use his size at all, can't skate worth a damn and has a ten cent head.

It's truly impossible to believe that the management team would have preferred turning Josh Gorges into Cody Franson to what they actually did which was get a 2nd rounder and Tom Gilbert.
Answer below, the next post after yours:
Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
Even if we would of gotten Franson I still think we would of sign Gilbert, Weaver would of be the odd man out.

I agree that Franson is worth more than a second round pick since most second rounders never make the NHL. But a draft pick is more exciting ultimately I rather have Weaver for one year and getting rid of the cap hit than having Franson which isn't part of the long term solution.

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:30 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
If it prevents another "Gomez Fiasco" Timmins come hangout and shoot the **** all day. I am pretty damn sure someone would have set them straight in about 5 seconds flat. Oh **** no scouts here, sorry guys leave it to the pros!
People forget to say that Gainey did not like the locker so he was going to let go Koivu and Plek had 39 points before this trade.

Yes we lost a formidable d-men but Gomez was part of the 201 PO run.

There was no center man available on UFA and Plek + Lapierre was not going to make it.

Finally, we were already talking about the 100th Habs celebrations.

Now the other choice is to never make the PO in 2010.

BTW, when the trade happened, I never saw a post saying that McDonagh was going to be a top-10 (but Timmins's face was telling a lot: talk about body language).

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