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Say Bossy's health never declines

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Old
07-04-2014, 03:22 PM
  #26
Kevin27nyi
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Originally Posted by Anton13 View Post
Is it really that much of a stretch? 1993 was a crazy year scoringwise. Fwiw, Selänne had 48 goals as a 36 year old during a much lower scoring era.
Didn't he say the lockout helped in that, he had a full year of rest to recover from injuries.

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07-04-2014, 07:55 PM
  #27
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
This is so true. God knows how many peak years Gretzky might have lost because of (a) the long seasons he played 1982/83 to 1988, and (b) the role he took on as media darling of the sport for 15 years or more. The demands put on a player's time (and sanity) by the media and fans when you are "Wayne Gretzky"... and he was always so accommodating. That takes a huge toll; I would say it's bigger than the many games he played.
The funny thing is, the odd person on here will actually critique Gretzky for not having MORE 200 point seasons, as if this is something that is altogether easy to maintain. The fact that he strung together than many all the while playing in the Canada Cups, being the marketing tool for the NHL and the short summers because of all the Cups is amazing. The truth is, Gretzky was still pretty much the same player up until 1991. His play in the 1991 Canada Cup is not that different from 1987. Things just take a toll on a person. They get tired.

Bossy was the same way, and let's face it, he was as competitive as they came. Those Islander teams were never the same after 1984. You only get one chance for 5 in a row and they lost it. That takes a toll on you mentally. It's almost as if you don't have to defend the Cup anymore because it isn't yours. All of the sudden your injuries that you ignored and nursed for so long catch up with you. You know, the same thing happened after the Canadiens in 1960. They could have and maybe should have won in 1961 again. But they didn't. 5 in a row was their peak. All of the sudden the players in their early 30s like Moore, Geoffrion and even Plante started to decline. Beliveau still had some great years but Harvey was on his way down too. That team poured their blood sweat and tears into those championships and when it is taken away from you you're deflated.

So the same thing happened with Bossy in my mind after 1984. Still had it in him, but healthy or not we weren't going to see the same magic anymore. So I doubt he adds as much to his legacy that he's considered the best winger ever.

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07-07-2014, 10:12 AM
  #28
JJ18Sniper
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I had read "Boss: The Mike Bossy Story" which he wrote during the 87-88 season he had taken off to rest his back prior to officially retiring.

He had stated something along the lines that if his back had not failed him the previous season he had no intention playing beyond his 11th season. He was fixed on 11 straight 50 goal seasons as his statistical career goal which would have put him in the 630-650 goal range for his career (assuming 50+ in 86-87 and 87-88). So while we can speculate how long a full career would have translated, it seems that if his back had held up he would have retired healthy at 31.

I'll dig up the exact quote from the book if you're interested.

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07-07-2014, 11:05 AM
  #29
Passchendaele
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Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player if he was so obsessed with his personal statistics.

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07-07-2014, 01:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player if he was so obsessed with his personal statistics.
Would more say that he new his role. The beating he took to get those goals and therefore his early retirement to me says that he was an excellent teamplayer. Setting up personal goals that helps the team doesn´t equal bad team player if done correctley. It´s not like Dionne, who I believe once answered the question (or something close to it): "How many of your goals would you give up for a Stanley Cup?" with "None.".

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07-07-2014, 02:15 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player if he was so obsessed with his personal statistics.
He definitely set goals (ha!) for himself, but his job on the team was scoring... seems to have worked out well all around to me.

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07-07-2014, 03:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Trottier lost his offense completely after 1987-88 though, and you'd have to think that would have slowed Bossy down a lot.
why do you think that? Bossy never had any problems producing playing with other centers. Brent Sutter hit 100 points with Bossy on his wing.

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07-07-2014, 05:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
why do you think that? Bossy never had any problems producing playing with other centers. Brent Sutter hit 100 points with Bossy on his wing.
I think this is why Bossy is often underrated. Not blessed with tremendous speed, his game was built on finding the open space. Maybe the best to find open space other than 99. Many other wingers of that era such as Lafleur, Goulet relied on their speed to create chances. Somehow the puck always found its way to Bossy's stick...and he rarely missed.

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07-07-2014, 11:22 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player if he was so obsessed with his personal statistics.


Yep, only a great contributor to the greatest US based team in NHL history.

Your assumption could not be more wrong.

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07-07-2014, 11:34 PM
  #35
Passchendaele
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post


Yep, only a great contributor to the greatest US based team in NHL history.

Your assumption could not be more wrong.
I don't see what you're getting at.

Pavel Bure was both one of the most selfish players in the later part of his career and one of the most electrifying.

He can be both successful at what he does, and somewhat self-centered at the same time.

We're talking about the same Bossy who told Bill Torrey that he'd score 50 goals in his first season, before even playing a shift in the bigs.

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07-07-2014, 11:36 PM
  #36
The Panther
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Bear View Post
why do you think that? Bossy never had any problems producing playing with other centers. Brent Sutter hit 100 points with Bossy on his wing.
Okay, good point, I didn't know that. But who would have played center for Bossy in, say, 1987 to 1992?

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Old
07-08-2014, 10:33 AM
  #37
JJ18Sniper
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Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Okay, good point, I didn't know that. But who would have played center for Bossy in, say, 1987 to 1992?
Brent Sutter and Pat Lafontaine were both centers on the team in that time range (until October 1991 I believe).
Forgot to note, Trottier was still around through 1990 but in a different role.

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Old
07-10-2014, 12:42 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
I don't see what you're getting at.
Here's exactly what I'm getting at:

You stated that: "Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player".

In actuality, that couldn't be further from the truth.

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07-10-2014, 07:37 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper View Post
I had read "Boss: The Mike Bossy Story" which he wrote during the 87-88 season he had taken off to rest his back prior to officially retiring.

He had stated something along the lines that if his back had not failed him the previous season he had no intention playing beyond his 11th season. He was fixed on 11 straight 50 goal seasons as his statistical career goal which would have put him in the 630-650 goal range for his career (assuming 50+ in 86-87 and 87-88). So while we can speculate how long a full career would have translated, it seems that if his back had held up he would have retired healthy at 31.

I'll dig up the exact quote from the book if you're interested.
That echoes what I was saying in my ealier post. He was talking that way earlier than that though. Regardless of health, he wasn't going to play much longer.

I also remember reading that he could have come back from the injury if he had wanted to and Torrey even offered to trade him to the Habs so he could play close to home, but he just didn't want to play anymore.

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07-11-2014, 12:32 AM
  #40
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As someone who saw Bossy play several hundred games he was a great scorer but not a total team player. A Hofer yes but an all time great No!

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07-11-2014, 01:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
As someone who saw Bossy play several hundred games he was a great scorer but not a total team player. A Hofer yes but an all time great No!
I'm curious (for I saw him play his entire career): can you give specific examples of this lack of "total team" play?

And "not an alltime great"? Is Trottier an all-time great from your perch on 8th Avenue? Potvin?

I ask this while agreeing entirely that Bossy is nowhere among the top 5 alltime. But he is ranked on most every list I've ever seen as one of the top 30 players or so ever. That's an alltime great, at least by my grading curve.

Thanks in advance for your reply.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-11-2014 at 10:24 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
07-11-2014, 07:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
As someone who saw Bossy play several hundred games he was a great scorer but not a total team player. A Hofer yes but an all time great No!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Bossy didn't sound like much of a team player if he was so obsessed with his personal statistics.
I know what you mean. In many interviews during his playing days and since, Bossy comes across as "I love to score goals" and not as in "I don't care about personal stats, I only want to win". When negotiating his first contract he spoke about "I'm going to score 50 goals for you". And I believe it's genuine. In his book he comes across the same way. He loved the game, loved scoring goals, worked really hard at it. That was his role, that's what was expected of him.

But he delivered, big time. And filling the net resulted in cups. He wasn't padding stats or disappearing when games got hard and when the team needed a goal, he was most often the guy to get one.

In Bossy HHOF video (on the HHOF website) Billy Smith talked about how hard Bossy competed, saying he never saw Bossy have a bad game.

Denis Potvin defends Bossy and his accomplishments all the time, most recently (that I heard) was when someone had compared Jeff Carter to Bossy and Potvin responds with "okay....hold on there......"

Bossy was very respected by his teammates, to this day. That's NOT for personal statistics, it's for him showing up in battle-time and doing what Arbour asked of/expected from him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ18Sniper View Post
I had read "Boss: The Mike Bossy Story" which he wrote during the 87-88 season he had taken off to rest his back prior to officially retiring.

He had stated something along the lines that if his back had not failed him the previous season he had no intention playing beyond his 11th season. He was fixed on 11 straight 50 goal seasons as his statistical career goal which would have put him in the 630-650 goal range for his career (assuming 50+ in 86-87 and 87-88). So while we can speculate how long a full career would have translated, it seems that if his back had held up he would have retired healthy at 31.

I'll dig up the exact quote from the book if you're interested.
I read the book and recall that as well. Bossy was pretty vocal early in his career about not wanting to play for a long time, even when he was healthy. From reading about how much pain he was in, that 10th season, it's pretty depressing. The NHL was a very rough game when Bossy played, especially with the sticks to the back in front of the net, the holding and interference. Add a few extra hundred playoff games and you have a pretty worn down player after 9 seasons and four cups.

But not many realize that even in his last season he scored 38 goals in just 63 games, (48 goal pace, over 80 games) not being able to practice or play back-to-back games because of the pain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Panther View Post
Okay, good point, I didn't know that. But who would have played center for Bossy in, say, 1987 to 1992?
Lafontaine. Brent Sutter. Bossy would have done fine with those two and with Turgeon after him. Fifty goals was a lock for him, if he stayed healthy. No question.

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Old
07-12-2014, 01:18 AM
  #43
The Panther
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This thread inspired me to order 'The Mike Bossy Story' but I could find only over-priced copies of it.

I remember teammates talking about Bossy's early years on Long Island, and saying how he was a nice guy, etc., but he was quite independent of the team. The guys would be going out for a beer and Bossy would decline the invitation, saying he wanted to spend the evening with his wife.

That's just the kind of guy he was. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

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07-12-2014, 04:44 AM
  #44
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This thread inspired me to order 'The Mike Bossy Story' but I could find only over-priced copies of it.
It's still peanuts compared to The Red Machine by Lawrence Martin.

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07-12-2014, 09:03 PM
  #45
The Panther
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Here's an interesting Bossy feature from Hockey Night in Canada in 1978, during Mike's rookie year:


They talk about his ability to score, his junior hockey in Laval, his wife, his adjustment to NY, his dog, etc.

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Old
07-12-2014, 09:23 PM
  #46
The Panther
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Sort of off-topic, but of interest: Here's Bossy scoring a goal against Dominik Hasek at the Saddledome in 1984:

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Old
07-14-2014, 04:10 PM
  #47
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Sort of off-topic, but of interest: Here's Bossy scoring a goal against Dominik Hasek at the Saddledome in 1984:
138 pounds?!?!

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07-14-2014, 04:37 PM
  #48
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Would more say that he new his role. The beating he took to get those goals and therefore his early retirement to me says that he was an excellent teamplayer. Setting up personal goals that helps the team doesn´t equal bad team player if done correctley.
Bossy wasn't known as a problem in the room but leadership can get overblown too, look at Messier as exhibit A in that reguard.


Quote:
It´s not like Dionne, who I believe once answered the question (or something close to it): "How many of your goals would you give up for a Stanley Cup?" with "None.".
it's really a silly question in a way and if a guy doesn't answer in the way he is supposed to ie "I would give up every goal ect..." then somehow his character is questioned which is bordering on garbage IMO.

Dionne is an all time great who didn't play on very good teams but really takes a hit for his team situation historically here.

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07-14-2014, 04:50 PM
  #49
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138 pounds?!?!
That was my takeaway as well. I did not know it was possible for a 6'0 athlete to weight 138, apart from fighters, who only weigh that little for the hour of the weigh in.

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Old
07-14-2014, 06:00 PM
  #50
The Panther
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Bossy wasn't known as a problem in the room but leadership can get overblown too, look at Messier as exhibit A in that reguard.
Right, that 1990 Stanley Cup and that 1994 Stanley Cup were disasters!

(Oh wait, I see you're from Vancouver.)

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