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Gainey Has MuchTo Decide

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Old
10-04-2003, 07:21 AM
  #1
galactus
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Gainey Has MuchTo Decide

Current Depth Chart and (player ready to make the grade)

L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Jan Bulis---------Saku Koivu-------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-----Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Michael Ryder-----Chad Kilger-----Niklas Sundstrom
Gordie Dwyer----Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Darren Langdon---Joe Juneau-----Andreas Dackell
-----------------Steve Begin--------------------
-----------------Chris Higgins--------------------
---------------Tomas Plekanec-------------------

did I miss anyone?

No one has to look to the above list of players to realize that many decisions must be made in regards to who stays and who go's before the season starts, as the log jam is very apparent.

It is just a matter of time before centres will be sent down or traded and the most likely candidates are Perrault, Juneau and yes even Kilger if the Habs are able to find someone of Kilgers size with more touch around the net. Kilger could still turn out to be that man since he is still very young and like most young players they get rushed into action at the NHL level. Ribeiro has also played well but his size at centre along with Koivu could lead to a change for the right offer.

Even if Kilger does not return from his injury in time for the start of the seasons I would be very surprised to see Higgins starting the season with the Habs. Many of you will be disappointed but this is the best thing that could happen to Higgins.

Most of us will agree that he did not look out of place in preseason but he still has much to learn and Higgins will need a lot of playing time to properly develop, the Bulldogs is the answer.

Also 2 more wingers will go most likely Dackell and Audette as the only thing still keeping them with the Habs is the fact that as of yet no other team has been willing to take them.

Players like Ryder and Ward will start with the Habs since they will have to clear waivers if they are sent down. Till now they both have shown that they deserve a chance with the big club.

Hossa and Plekanec have played good enough to start with the Habs but things being what they are, Plekanec most likely will find himself starting with the Dogs and Hossa could follow. Hossa and Plekanec are still very young and some more games in the AHL won’t hurt either of their progress.

We may not agree with the decisions that will be made but sometimes your hands are tied and only time will correct the mistakes of the past.

Eventually the forward lines will have more scoring, grit, toughness and determination and could possible look something like this.

Ryder - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Ward
Bulis - Kilger - Sunstrum
Dackell or Dwyer - Begin - Langdon

At every position the Habs have a log jam and Gainey must come up with the answers to clear them.

I still expect to see more veterans being put on waiver so that the Habs will be able to start the season with the maximum 23 required players 25 if Koivu and Kilger are still injured. 2 goalies, 12 forwards and 6 defenseman with and extra forward or defenseman in the line-up depending what the coach feels he needs for that game.


my 2 cents.

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Old
10-04-2003, 07:57 AM
  #2
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2 other players have already been put on waivers (we don't know their names) because we aquired Begin and Langdon but were not picked. I think this means (correct me if I'm wrong) that those 2 players can be sent down without having to go through waivers again (one can only speculate on who those players were).

I'm expecting a trade right now because we have have so much NHL ready forwards.

Perreault, Juneau, Audette and Dackell are prime candidates.

Hey maybe Atlanta would want Audette back now that Heatley is likely out for the year.

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:00 AM
  #3
doc lafleur
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Galactus

Great article... i think you should get a job writing for some sport's section in Montreal. You seem to Know the game well and the team.
Maybe even Cohen in Florida could use you to help out Duddley.

Keep up the good work and thank's

Doc

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:05 AM
  #4
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I know im gonna get hammered for this but i dont want higgins in the NHL. Bringing players right to the NHL is 9 out of 10 times extremely bad in the players development. Higgins has somewhat proven he can play in the NHL in the pre-season. Dont forget that its players dont always put their best effort in the pre season.

Dont trade Audette. He can still be useful. And if you wanna know why i think this, check out the thread called "a stupid theory"

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10-04-2003, 08:08 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galactus
Current Depth Chart and (player ready to make the grade)

L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Jan Bulis---------Saku Koivu-------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-----Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Michael Ryder-----Chad Kilger-----Niklas Sundstrom
Gordie Dwyer----Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Darren Langdon---Joe Juneau-----Andreas Dackell
-----------------Steve Begin--------------------
-----------------Chris Higgins--------------------
---------------Tomas Plekanec-------------------

did I miss anyone?

No one has to look to the above list of players to realize that many decisions must be made in regards to who stays and who go's before the season starts, as the log jam is very apparent.

It is just a matter of time before centres will be sent down or traded and the most likely candidates are Perrault, Juneau and yes even Kilger if the Habs are able to find someone of Kilgers size with more touch around the net. Kilger could still turn out to be that man since he is still very young and like most young players they get rushed into action at the NHL level. Ribeiro has also played well but his size at centre along with Koivu could lead to a change for the right offer.

Even if Kilger does not return from his injury in time for the start of the seasons I would be very surprised to see Higgins starting the season with the Habs. Many of you will be disappointed but this is the best thing that could happen to Higgins.

Most of us will agree that he did not look out of place in preseason but he still has much to learn and Higgins will need a lot of playing time to properly develop, the Bulldogs is the answer.

Also 2 more wingers will go most likely Dackell and Audette as the only thing still keeping them with the Habs is the fact that as of yet no other team has been willing to take them.

Players like Ryder and Ward will start with the Habs since they will have to clear waivers if they are sent down. Till now they both have shown that they deserve a chance with the big club.

Hossa and Plekanec have played good enough to start with the Habs but things being what they are, Plekanec most likely will find himself starting with the Dogs and Hossa could follow. Hossa and Plekanec are still very young and some more games in the AHL won’t hurt either of their progress.

We may not agree with the decisions that will be made but sometimes your hands are tied and only time will correct the mistakes of the past.

Eventually the forward lines will have more scoring, grit, toughness and determination and could possible look something like this.

Ryder - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Ward
Bulis - Kilger - Sunstrum
Dackell or Dwyer - Begin - Langdon

At every position the Habs have a log jam and Gainey must come up with the answers to clear them.

I still expect to see more veterans being put on waiver so that the Habs will be able to start the season with the maximum 23 required players 25 if Koivu and Kilger are still injured. 2 goalies, 12 forwards and 6 defenseman with and extra forward or defenseman in the line-up depending what the coach feels he needs for that game.


my 2 cents.
I agree pretty strongly with your choices. I think this provides the team with a very decent first two lines...Ryder has shown some really good chemistry with koivu in training camp and in addition will add some toughness, grit and scoring to the first line...Likewise, Hossa and Ribeiro has shown similar chemistry and Ward should add some extra toughness to this line along with Hossa if he has learned to be more consistent...Futhermore, the third line doesn't look too shabby either along with a very physical 4th line to pick up for the rest of the team...Personally, I feel that this 4th line would give the other lines confidence and moral support to play a more phsyical game.

My conclusion then is that your proposed line-up would have no problem in making the playoffs this year!!

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:17 AM
  #6
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IMO There is nothing to be gained by sending Hossa down. He has played with determination in the preseason and has fought hard for the puck off the offensive boards. Moreover, he has clicked with Ribeiro and Hossa. As for Higgins, he's better right now than a few of the Habs on the roster. However, I think he should spend some time in Hamilton in order to gain time playing with TALENTED forwards. He's demonstrated his defensive ability at the NHL level. I'd like him to see him play on a line with Plekanec and/or Perezhogin. In the preseason games he's been stuck with linemates like Blouin, Dwyer, and Carpentier. Plekanec also deserves consideration, particularly if Koivu is injured a second time.

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:20 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPHabsFan
I know im gonna get hammered for this but i dont want higgins in the NHL.
Why would you get hammered for this? I think it's pretty much common sense now that with all the bodies in Montreal and the need for Higgins to adjust to the pace with premium ice time, he will be served much better by spending a year in Hamilton, while some of our vets spend their last year of contract with us.

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Old
10-04-2003, 08:23 AM
  #8
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Moreover, he has clicked with Ribeiro and Hossa.
Well it's nice to know he feels good with himself... :p

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10-04-2003, 08:39 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Why would you get hammered for this? I think it's pretty much common sense now that with all the bodies in Montreal and the need for Higgins to adjust to the pace with premium ice time, he will be served much better by spending a year in Hamilton, while some of our vets spend their last year of contract with us.
I figured id get hammered because from most of the lineups ive seen, they mostly have higgins on it.

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Old
10-04-2003, 09:17 AM
  #10
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Hossa

Zednik, then. Are you happy now, Munchausen?

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Old
10-04-2003, 09:29 AM
  #11
Munchausen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Zednik, then. Are you happy now, Munchausen?
Huh... Yeah. I'm happy.

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Old
10-04-2003, 09:42 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plekanec
If we go with efficiency, the depth at center would look like it;

Koivu
Ribeiro
Plekanec
Higgins
Juneau
Perreault
Gratton
Actually... Efficiency would include points and thus

Koivu
Perrault
Ribeiro
Juneau
Gratton
Plekanec
Higgins

Ribeiro can skate all he wants around a team, he still isn't good for more than 40-45 points, for now at least.

Like it or not, Perrault is our 2nd most efficient center, and Gratton had a stellar year of Pro hockey, Pleks and Higgins didn't...

We suck at center

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Old
10-04-2003, 01:08 PM
  #13
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Dont Rush Plekanec

I absolutely love Tomas Plekanec, but he needs another year in the minor leagues to round out his game a little, and to mature (he's still young). In the AHL he's got all the skill to top 70 points and get tons of icetime and the pressure of the press isn't so great (Mmmmm... fresh meat!!)

I think that Ryder is also somewhat on the bubble: though he has been good at the end of last season, and in preseason, i'd bet that the habs will send him down. I'd bet BG waits, looking for consistent performance through the first several months in the AHL, or until we clear out some of our NHL forwards

As for Higgins, i'd also love to see him play at least 1 full season in the AHL (without being called up for any of the time). The guy has only played about 30games per season until now, and personally i think that playing in the minors develops drive and motivation. Keeping a skilled, young nucleus in Hamilton will give those kids a stable base to develop as players and team-mates.

Actually, as a side thought, i think it's also fiscally a good idea to keep young players in the minors for a few years... so often young 1st & 2nd rounders sign huge contracts, and think that they are worth 4 million a year (because they were amazing in junior) and that anything less is an insult. I think that minor-league life develops players that understand the value of money and team... it seems to work in New Jersey though that could just be Lou being stingy??

I'm also with Plekanec on the Centre rating:
Koivu
Perrault (if he had wingers or dmen that would pot the puck when he won offensive zone faceoffs, i think we'd rate him better than we do)
Ribiero (glad to see he's fighting hard this year... that line looks good)
Juneau
Gratton
Plekanec
Higgins

with all these guys at center, i don't think we'll ever see Hossa back at center... it's a shame, i'd love to see how he'd do playing his natural position.

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Old
10-04-2003, 03:13 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfansam
I think that Ryder is also somewhat on the bubble: though he has been good at the end of last season, and in preseason, i'd bet that the habs will send him down. I'd bet BG waits, looking for consistent performance through the first several months in the AHL, or until we clear out some of our NHL forwards.
Ryder would have to clear waivers before he could make it to the Dogs...so expect a trade in the near future to clear out the excess.

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Old
10-04-2003, 03:46 PM
  #15
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L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Jan Bulis---------Saku Koivu-------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-----Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Michael Ryder-----Chad Kilger-----Niklas Sundstrom
Gordie Dwyer----Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Darren Langdon---Joe Juneau-----Andreas Dackell
-----------------Steve Begin--------------------
-----------------Chris Higgins--------------------
---------------Tomas Plekanec-------------------

I think Ward is rated too high. He might be above Dackell, but that's it, and only because of his size.

We're gonna have lots of guys in the pressbox. Who knows what they will do with Perreault. Juneau is still our checking line center though as far as I know. And they said Kilger is the 4th line center, so you can't have him ranked third.

Higgins and Pleks and probably Dwyer are going down. Begin, I dunno.

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10-04-2003, 04:21 PM
  #16
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good call on ryder clearing waivers... and by the sounds of tonights game he isn't going anywhere. he's been all over the place in the 3rd.


so, does this mean that we're looking at a large trade... seems that we've got about 4 too many forwards who need roster spots.

audette-koivu-bulis
zednik-ribiero-hossa
ryder-perrault-ward
langdon-kilger-dwyer

to add size to the 1st line we could swap audette and zednik. as bad as donald was last season, i think he'll pick it up this year... it'll be easier with larger younger guys who wear other teams down. Maybe that speed advantage we've got will start to show itself.


what to with these guys?
sundstrom, dackell, juneau, begin

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10-04-2003, 05:16 PM
  #17
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bulis-koivu-audette
hossa-ribiero-zednik
sundstrom-juneau-ward
langdon/ryder-kilger-perrault


I'm thinking something like this. But Ryder is causing some pleasant problems. If the team still has trouble scoring, we'll see him get an audition on the top lines. You can't just slot him in there yet, he hasn't earned it.

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10-04-2003, 05:25 PM
  #18
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If Gainey is doing anything he will trade old vets or buy them out, he won't deal kids like Ryder and Ward to simply make room in Montreal, that doesn't make sense at all especially since Ryder is scoring and players like Dackell and Juneau are doing nothing.

Go with the kids, do a house cleaning of the old players...if needed.

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10-04-2003, 05:49 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves
bulis-koivu-audette
hossa-ribiero-zednik
sundstrom-juneau-ward
langdon/ryder-kilger-perrault


I'm thinking something like this. But Ryder is causing some pleasant problems. If the team still has trouble scoring, we'll see him get an audition on the top lines. You can't just slot him in there yet, he hasn't earned it.

It seems like such a shame to lose the effectiveness of perrault (ie faceoffs in the offensive zone) on a 4th line... i figure the third line could be sundstrom-perrault-kilger/ward and then we could put young guys on an energy line and move them up as their play shows up...

It'd be fun to see the habs wear other teams down by winning offensive faceoffs and having guys large enough to cycle and grind, but skilled enough to bury their chances... that's largely where the ryder-perrault-ward line came in. Ward and Ryder hustle in all three zones... i know it's only the preseason, but i like Ryder (always have).

Ward and Ryder will both have consistency issues, but they can't be worse than Perrault last season... At least they have work ethic.

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Old
10-05-2003, 05:11 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galactus
Current Depth Chart and (player ready to make the grade)

L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Jan Bulis---------Saku Koivu-------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-----Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Michael Ryder-----Chad Kilger-----Niklas Sundstrom
Gordie Dwyer----Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Darren Langdon---Joe Juneau-----Andreas Dackell
-----------------Steve Begin--------------------
-----------------Chris Higgins--------------------
---------------Tomas Plekanec-------------------

did I miss anyone?

No one has to look to the above list of players to realize that many decisions must be made in regards to who stays and who go's before the season starts, as the log jam is very apparent.
Log jam? At forward? What? Are you kidding?

My friend, you - and some others here - are forgetting one important factor in NHL hockey, especially in Montreal recently:

I N J U R I E S

Of the above chart Higgins Plekanec and Dwyer will be propably sent down AND if you substract players that are already hurting; Koivu Zednik Juneau Kilger Langdon and Begin, Habs are reduced down to 9 forwards.

While some of the above mentioned will be called up or get better through the course of the season, someone always get hurt. I personally have the feeling Canadiens will have trouble sending 12 healty forward NHL lineup to the ice and to me it seems like Gainey was forced to add a couple more bodies to have depth.

Anyone thinking Habs will have completely healthy lineup for whole season is dreaming and not living in a real world. Wake up!

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Old
10-05-2003, 08:47 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
Why would we put Perreault on the 4th line?
You're right. He's in the pressbox then I guess. He cannot do half the job of Juneau on the checking line except for faceoffs and there is no room on the scoring lines, even with the injuries...

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Old
10-05-2003, 09:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galactus
Current Depth Chart and (player ready to make the grade)

L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Jan Bulis---------Saku Koivu-------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-----Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Michael Ryder-----Chad Kilger-----Niklas Sundstrom
Gordie Dwyer----Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Darren Langdon---Joe Juneau-----Andreas Dackell
-----------------Steve Begin--------------------
-----------------Chris Higgins--------------------
---------------Tomas Plekanec-------------------

did I miss anyone?

No one has to look to the above list of players to realize that many decisions must be made in regards to who stays and who go's before the season starts, as the log jam is very apparent.

It is just a matter of time before centres will be sent down or traded and the most likely candidates are Perrault, Juneau and yes even Kilger if the Habs are able to find someone of Kilgers size with more touch around the net. Kilger could still turn out to be that man since he is still very young and like most young players they get rushed into action at the NHL level. Ribeiro has also played well but his size at centre along with Koivu could lead to a change for the right offer.

Even if Kilger does not return from his injury in time for the start of the seasons I would be very surprised to see Higgins starting the season with the Habs. Many of you will be disappointed but this is the best thing that could happen to Higgins.

Most of us will agree that he did not look out of place in preseason but he still has much to learn and Higgins will need a lot of playing time to properly develop, the Bulldogs is the answer.

Also 2 more wingers will go most likely Dackell and Audette as the only thing still keeping them with the Habs is the fact that as of yet no other team has been willing to take them.

Players like Ryder and Ward will start with the Habs since they will have to clear waivers if they are sent down. Till now they both have shown that they deserve a chance with the big club.

Hossa and Plekanec have played good enough to start with the Habs but things being what they are, Plekanec most likely will find himself starting with the Dogs and Hossa could follow. Hossa and Plekanec are still very young and some more games in the AHL won’t hurt either of their progress.

We may not agree with the decisions that will be made but sometimes your hands are tied and only time will correct the mistakes of the past.

Eventually the forward lines will have more scoring, grit, toughness and determination and could possible look something like this.

Ryder - Koivu - Zednik
Hossa - Ribeiro - Ward
Bulis - Kilger - Sunstrum
Dackell or Dwyer - Begin - Langdon

At every position the Habs have a log jam and Gainey must come up with the answers to clear them.

I still expect to see more veterans being put on waiver so that the Habs will be able to start the season with the maximum 23 required players 25 if Koivu and Kilger are still injured. 2 goalies, 12 forwards and 6 defenseman with and extra forward or defenseman in the line-up depending what the coach feels he needs for that game.


my 2 cents.

Ribeiro as second line centre? We might as well throw in the towel on the season right now!

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Old
10-05-2003, 10:19 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS
If Gainey is doing anything he will trade old vets or buy them out, he won't deal kids like Ryder and Ward to simply make room in Montreal, that doesn't make sense at all especially since Ryder is scoring and players like Dackell and Juneau are doing nothing.

Go with the kids, do a house cleaning of the old players...if needed.

I totally agree with you !

Ryder and Ward are with the club to stay. As well as Langdon and Bégin that they've picked up Friday. The last two, as well as Ward won't propably play every game, but will be inserted in the line-up if muscle and grit are required. Unless Gainey is able to make some deal or buy out some contracts to make room. Juneau and Dackell
are my first two choices to move out.

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Old
10-05-2003, 11:15 AM
  #24
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As long as younger players, such as Jason Ward and Michael Ryder, continue to outplay the likes of Andreas Dackell and Donald Audette, there is no reason to hold them back. Let the best players play, whether they are nineteen years of age or forty-two.

That being said, Bob Gainey is no dolt, I think we as fans can trust any decision he comes to regarding the club.

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Old
10-05-2003, 11:53 AM
  #25
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This will be my line up
L.W.-----------------C.---------------R.W.
Michael Ryder------Saku Koivu--------Richard Zednik
Marcel Hossa-------Mike Ribeiro-------Jason Ward
Jan Bulis-----------Yanic Perrault-----Donald Audette
Landong? ----------Joe Juneau--------Niklas Sundstrom

this is the line up i want to see

the bottom line is the centre position are very much locked for now, but if Ribs/Perrault/Juneau don't play up to par, we can call up Higgins
For LW and RW, Lets hope Ward and Ryder deserve to be in the line-up, if not, we can always have Kilger, Begin, Langdon, Dackell to replace them...

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