HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Vinny trade holding everything up

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-03-2014, 08:31 AM
  #76
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Listen, I'm not even joking, the Leafs centers right now look like

Bozak/Kadri/Komarov/Holland????

To Philly TO 4th 2015
To Toronto Vinny
That might make sense for the Flyers, but it doesn't seem to make sense for Toronto. Assuming Bozak sticks with Kessel, who is playing 3C, Kadri or Lecavalier? Neither seem well-suited.

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:33 AM
  #77
Zetterberg4Captain
Registered User
 
Zetterberg4Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Detroit
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,645
vCash: 500
wouldnt the MAIN benefit to Philly for moving Vinny simply be cap space?

would they really be looking to make the traditional trade of trading a key clog to go in a new directiuon by getting prospects and picks and young players? of course not is the ONLY answer

vinny if traded will be traded for like a 4th rd draft pick

phillys return is the cap space to spend elsewhere for a player they like better

end of story

Zetterberg4Captain is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:35 AM
  #78
Preds33
RIP Shea Weber!
 
Preds33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 7,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Why do teams like the Preds care about the contract when they are close to 16 million under the cap and never really spend to the cap anyway?
Regarding the cap, they were within 4 Million of the cap last season until the trades started. Poile always leaves a little room in the budget for trades

VLC is high risk due to term. If he was on a 1 or 2 year deal, this deal would have already happened. Why tie up that much money on what will be a useless player in 2-3 years when we already have that in Stalberg/Nystrom? Sorry.

Preds33 is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:41 AM
  #79
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Can people at least look what Vinny's year REALLY looked like when discussing him.

Vinny moves from the only team he has known in 15 years.
He learns a new system.
Three games into the season, the coach is fired.
He then has to learn another new system.
He had 9 goals in the first 20 games.
He got hurt, then Schenn took over at C and Berube kept him there.
Vinny damn near broke his back. Then was shoved on LW...a position he has never played before.
He tells the coach that he cannot play LW...and he is right...he was horrible at it.
Berube decides to put him on the 4th line playing with Rinaldo and Hall.

Now we have a new GM to go with the new coach. He has his own vision of the team he wants.
And with the cap coming in lower than expected, we need to shed a salary.

As for the 20 goals....yeah...it is a big deal. Because with ALL the BS he went thru, the 20 goals put him in the top 90 scorers. So that is 1st line goal scoring. Most don't realize that, but that means on average, he would be the 3rd leading goal scorer on a team.

If there was no cap, I would have no issue having Vinny back AT CENTER and moving Schenn to the wing full time. But there is a cap, and so am fine dealing him for picks or for cheap and effective 4th liners to replace Rinaldo and Rosehill.
He actually broke his back which caused spasms.

I agree that vinny will be better next year but at this point if he can be traded he should as his contract is not good. As long as we don't give up assets to do this.

Add to that the way we have handled him there is no way he is happy now. So given everything it's best to trade him but not a definite must that we need to be packaging him and a 1 for a pick

TheKingPin is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:44 AM
  #80
Liferleafer
Bob's assclown
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
That might make sense for the Flyers, but it doesn't seem to make sense for Toronto. Assuming Bozak sticks with Kessel, who is playing 3C, Kadri or Lecavalier? Neither seem well-suited.
Move Kadri to the wing. Lupul/Vinny/Kadri. Secondary scoring solved. Play Komarov with Clarkson/??? On the 3rd line and a 4th line centered by Holland with some of our young guys (who we need to see sooner or later anyway).

Gives us options in case of injury...and I kind of want to see if Vinny can keep up with Kessel/JVR on our 1st line.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:47 AM
  #81
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
wouldnt the MAIN benefit to Philly for moving Vinny simply be cap space?

would they really be looking to make the traditional trade of trading a key clog to go in a new directiuon by getting prospects and picks and young players? of course not is the ONLY answer

vinny if traded will be traded for like a 4th rd draft pick

phillys return is the cap space to spend elsewhere for a player they like better

end of story
I don't think many Flyers fans are expecting more than that. When they talk about getting a "better deal," it is really about the amount of cap space that is freed up by moving Lecavalier. In that sense, moving Vinny for a 4th is a better return than Matt Cullen. It is also better than retaining money on Lecavalier's deal in order to get a better pick.

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:54 AM
  #82
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Regarding the cap, they were within 4 Million of the cap last season until the trades started. Poile always leaves a little room in the budget for trades

VLC is high risk due to term. If he was on a 1 or 2 year deal, this deal would have already happened. Why tie up that much money on what will be a useless player in 2-3 years when we already have that in Stalberg/Nystrom? Sorry.
I get that but it's not like the Pred will be competing for anything over the next 4 years anyway. They need veterans to influence the young players that will be coming during that time plus decent contracts to get to the cap floor. They also need to at least act like they are doing all they can to compete for fans and veterans on the roster already. Lecavalier's contract pays out only 3 mil a year the last two years well under the 4.5 mil cap hit so it will be a bargain.

Psuhockey is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 08:58 AM
  #83
Uber Coca
Registered User
 
Uber Coca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,446
vCash: 500
Just coming for the LOL of Evander Kane. I know he's only 22 years old but at some point you've got to grow up.

Uber Coca is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:07 AM
  #84
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,461
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Time View Post
evander9kane
11 hours ago
I have to believe that this was the fine officer Mr.Giroux kindly said hello too. #canyouimagineifitwasme #winnipegmedia


Tomorrow: Day of Trading? (E4)

"talking to a few sources tonight tomorrow could see Evander Kane, Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Dustin Byfuglien, and LeCavalier on the move.."
- Eklund

I wonder if clearning cap space is holding up the Flyers and Jets trade. Clearly Evander keeps tweeting about Philadelphia for some reason

Are any real sources reporting on this stuff?

colchar is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:26 AM
  #85
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Beukeboom Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 13,582
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
And yet much worse contracts for much worse players were signed within the last 48 hours. Weird, isn't it.
And the Caps would be incapable of moving Orpik contract as well. So I don't see how McClellan and Tallon being stupid means that VL has value. Even if you say that VL earned his contract last year, he's still got hurt and struggled after. That is likely to happen more often and not less as VL ages.

Beukeboom Fan is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:36 AM
  #86
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,287
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Even if you say that VL earned his contract last year, he's still got hurt and struggled after. That is likely to happen more often and not less as VL ages.
Except that his contract's value has improved, not declined. With this year's bonus paid, he's basically a $3.6 million player on a $4.5 AAV cap hit. While the full cap hit might pose a problem to the bigger spending clubs, it is of little consequence to 2/3s of the league (and perhaps even a net positive for those teams nearer the league floor). Even if you assume that he'd only match last year's production (marred, as you noted, by both the injuries and a coaching change), he's good value at $3.6 million (or thereabouts) in real money.

Lecavalier is an adequate 2C. He can produce offensively in that role and on the PP. He is a defensive liability at this point, which is why he's a poor fit for the Flyers (or any other team looking for a bottom six center).

Jack de la Hoya is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:43 AM
  #87
PuqTalk
@PuqOT on Twitter
 
PuqTalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Are any real sources reporting on this stuff?
Well, for what it's worth, I didn't see anyone break the Briere trade before Eklund. Even if he was being incredibly vague. As much as he seems to be off, there looks to be some traction behind the idea that he has connections with Philly's organization and possibly ex-Flyers players and/or agents.

PuqTalk is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:45 AM
  #88
ThirdManIn
Global Moderator
Aspiring Sinecure
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 53,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I get that but it's not like the Pred will be competing for anything over the next 4 years anyway. They need veterans to influence the young players that will be coming during that time plus decent contracts to get to the cap floor. They also need to at least act like they are doing all they can to compete for fans and veterans on the roster already. Lecavalier's contract pays out only 3 mil a year the last two years well under the 4.5 mil cap hit so it will be a bargain.
They certainly won't be competitive if the biggest summer moves are Neal (good move), signing Jokinen (there is our vet) and then bringing in four more years of a terrible contract. Stop gap players are needed, but a 34 year old signed for four more years isn't exactly the kind of player you bring in as a stop gap.

__________________
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=89413&dateline=146768  6770
ThirdManIn is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 09:50 AM
  #89
Preds33
RIP Shea Weber!
 
Preds33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 7,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Except that his contract's value has improved, not declined. With this year's bonus paid, he's basically a $3.6 million player on a $4.5 AAV cap hit. While the full cap hit might pose a problem to the bigger spending clubs, it is of little consequence to 2/3s of the league (and perhaps even a net positive for those teams nearer the league floor). Even if you assume that he'd only match last year's production (marred, as you noted, by both the injuries and a coaching change), he's good value at $3.6 million (or thereabouts) in real money.

Lecavalier is an adequate 2C. He can produce offensively in that role and on the PP. He is a defensive liability at this point, which is why he's a poor fit for the Flyers (or any other team looking for a bottom six center).
I'm not concerned about the cap hit this year, but I am concerned about the cap hit in future years, particularly in years 3 and 4 of the 4 remaining years. We don't really know what Poile or whoever the GM of the Preds may be at that time will have in mind for the team. VLC will be a 4 C at best at that point who if these past few seasons have shown anything, will miss quite a few games to injury. And I do realize that any player can miss to injury, but my point is why take on the extra risk? He's not worth it. Simply put, I'm not sure if I would even take him for future considerations.

Preds33 is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:02 AM
  #90
Rockmorton
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisruff View Post
I don't usually give Eklund topics the time of day, but I have to ask, what exactly is Lecaviler holding up? Stastny's signed, Spezza's traded, Kesler's traded. It's not like he's a big deal.
I think there are a couple of scenarios that could be playing themselves out right now

1) Philly is looking to acquire one of the big ticket names out there, but needs to shed Vinny's contract first. And then that team maybe looking to make a deal to replace the player they just gave up. For example, say Philly does want to acquire Kane. They need to move salary to make it possible. Then, say Winnipeg wanted to acquire...Thornton (just as an example, not saying they would). They would want to move Kane before that happens. Then, SJ ma want to make a move to replace Thornton, and on and on. All of those deals are dependent on Vinny being moved. Until he's traded, nothing else can realistically happen.

Scenario two: there maybe teams looking to add a veteran forward. For arguments sake, let's say their list looks like this;
1. Lecavalier
2. Thornton
3. Marleau

A team with this "wish list" will want to see if they can get Lecavalier before they finalize anything with Thornton.

This sounds similar to what happened at the trade deadline this year. I heard an interview with Winnipeg's GM, who said that there were about a dozen deals that didn't get done on time because of one player (Kesler) that was in play, who pulled his name off the market with about five minutes left until the deadline. That didn't leave enough time for a bunch of other deals to get done, since the other teams were waiting to see what happened with him before they pursued their Plan B.

Rockmorton is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:02 AM
  #91
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 33,202
vCash: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
Philly could move VL pretty easilly lot of team with cap space and looking for player.. the thing is that VL as a no movement claused so he can select were he want to go... Philly hand are tied
I read Nashville was ready to trade for VL at this year's TDL, but Philly refused to retain any salary.

I don't see any team bailing out the Flyers. IMO they will have to retain some salary.

CREW99AW is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:09 AM
  #92
Willis88
Registered User
 
Willis88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 788
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Don't be ridiculous. If Hextall could have dumped VL's contract prior to July 1 for free he would have done so. It is more likely that VL will be a Flyer on opening day.
I don't agree with this. Other teams probably wanted to see what they could bring in during free agency and held off on taking a high salary contract and #2 or #3 center in Lecavalier. I'm sure teams wanted to see how their rosters would shake out after the first few days of free agency before any team possibly acquiring him.

Willis88 is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:16 AM
  #93
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,064
vCash: 500
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...t_be_dead.html

Quote:
According to a source, Hextall and Predators GM David Poile revisited the idea of swapping Lecavalier yesterday afternoon. No deal appeared imminent, according to talks, but the Predators remain interested - especially after watching other division opponents bulk up on Tuesday.

"I have talked to a lot of teams," Poile told the Nashville Tennessean yesterday. "I have talked to Philadelphia specifically, but we'll leave it right there."

Hextall has repeatedly declined to comment on the possibility of trading Lecavalier, saying only that it is an "internal matter."

"We'll keep looking at the situation and deal with it internally," Hextall said. "As far as I'm concerned right now, Vinny Lecavalier could be in a Flyer uniform in September."


Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...lXFyIkyGM2q.99

__________________
#itdoesn'tmatterwewontgethimanyway
Prongo is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:18 AM
  #94
Preds33
RIP Shea Weber!
 
Preds33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 7,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
yeah I saw that and all that does is make this team worse if that happens. VL is not who he used to be. He's prone to injury now, we do not need him. This is just Poile being desperate.

Preds33 is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:22 AM
  #95
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
yeah I saw that and all that does is make this team worse if that happens. VL is not who he used to be. He's prone to injury now, we do not need him. This is just Poile being desperate.
The first 20 games I believe he had 9 goals or somewhere around there. He isn't the player he used to be but in Lavy's system he could be a 50 point center again. Will give the Preds the ability to develop your young centers as well. I don't know if a deal gets done but the two teams match up the most.

Prongo is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:23 AM
  #96
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
A Vinny for Stalberg deal could work. Stalberg gets paid more than his cap hit the next 3 years...cap hit 3 mill. Vinny gets paid less than his cap hit.

I also think that the deal could be made bigger so maybe the cap hits are not as big a deal.

Tripod is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:23 AM
  #97
Preds33
RIP Shea Weber!
 
Preds33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 7,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
The first 20 games I believe he had 9 goals or somewhere around there. He isn't the player he used to be but in Lavy's system he could be a 50 point center again. Will give the Preds the ability to develop your young centers as well. I don't know if a deal gets done but the two teams match up the most.
No he won't because he will force them to Milwuakee or being scratched. The team is low on roster space.

Preds33 is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:23 AM
  #98
alexmanu
Registered User
 
alexmanu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,229
vCash: 500
I would personally take on VLC but Philly would have to give the Preds something else IMO for us to take on his contract. Maybe a draft pick or prospect.

alexmanu is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:25 AM
  #99
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 15,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
A Vinny for Stalberg deal could work. Stalberg gets paid more than his cap hit the next 3 years...cap hit 3 mill. Vinny gets paid less than his cap hit.

I also think that the deal could be made bigger so maybe the cap hits are not as big a deal.
I think that it would need to be bigger. A Vinny for Stalberg deal really doesn't help the Flyers much.

AtlantaWhaler is offline  
Old
07-03-2014, 10:27 AM
  #100
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,064
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
No he won't because he will force them to Milwuakee or being scratched. The team is low on roster space.
As Hextall would say, he never heard of a player being hurt due to a year of developent in the AHL. It's never a bad thing to let a kid keep developing at lower levels until management feels he is ready. If they think he is ready that point is moot but Vinny would probably be your best center in terms of offense.

Also, the Vinny for Stalberg deal doesn't help with the cap. I think it just might be a prospect and a later pick coming back if so. Not a great prospect either.

Prongo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.