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The whole story on Vrbata

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:23 PM
  #1
zyllyx
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The whole story on Vrbata

Excellent Paul Harvey-esque "Rest of the Story" article by Sarah McLellin on Vrbata's free-agency quest. Thought it deserved its own thread; if not, mods can move.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...deal/12162395/

Quote:
The Coyotes proposed a four-year deal but the money was way less than what Vrbata ended up accepting from the Canucks. He was looking for assurance that he would be able to spend all four of those years with the Coyotes, but the Coyotes were prepared to include only a limited no-movement clause and not a full one.

Vrbata's deal with the Canucks includes a limited no-trade clause.

"Don, I think, did his best to work it in there even though it would be modified a little bit," Vrbata said. "But in the end, it wasn't the case. At the end, he gave me his word on some things and that was good enough for me. That wasn't the deal breaker in the end."

The Canucks pitch was just too good to pass up. Aside from securing a raise off his previous three-year contract worth $9 million Vrbata is set to make $4 million in each of his two seasons with the Canucks while also accruing a $1 million bonus in each year he has the opportunity to play alongside Swedish stars Daniel and Henrik Sedin.

"The interest from talking to my agent and then once I signed I talked to the GM, Jim (Benning), it's going to be interesting and how excited they are to get me, it shows me that they really want me there and they feel I can be a good player for them playing with the Sedins, the power play," Vrbata said. "These are guys that can score goals. Overall, the fit's all right."

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07-03-2014, 03:38 PM
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Naurutger
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I found it interesting that they didn't even approach him with a deal. Figured it was out of their budget, but Vrby stated he would fit in with them. Really means that no one else is going to get signed by this team; really haven't heard any players attached to the team. Trade, maybe, signed, doubtful. Maloney said himself that it was shocking to see all the talent the other teams added. In reality, why bother signing more bad contracts when you just cant compete. Wait until you can I guess.

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07-03-2014, 03:47 PM
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This still does not tell us the story. I am not sure what Verby means. Verby could be saying it was not the NMC but money. Maybe Vancouver came in at the last minute for 5 mil and he took it? DM knows what he was worth to us in our structure versus a random offer in UFA country.
The more I think about it, the more I agree that NMC's should be for a select few. Either great players that are UFA's or long standing home grown loyal players like Doan. NMC's kill your ability to make moves if a player does not work out. Basically, I agree with DM in policy on this issue.

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07-03-2014, 03:49 PM
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ck26
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We all talked about Korpikoski being a veteran who DM had in his crosshairs: I think the results of the last 3 days tell us that Vrbata was higher up on the hit list. Resolves any doubt that the Ribeiro thing and an associated re-tooling/getting younger was serious and was long-planned.
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Originally Posted by Naurutger View Post
Really means that no one else is going to get signed by this team ... In reality, why bother signing more bad contracts when you just cant compete. Wait until you can I guess.
Yes and no. There are always 1-year deals to be given out, and I think there's at least one more coming -- we don't have enough bodies up front right now.

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Old
07-03-2014, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naurutger View Post
I found it interesting that they didn't even approach him with a deal.
Seems like a bit of an insult. If they had offered or engaged him more, they probably would have figured out real fast he has a soft spot for staying in Phoenix. The telling part is how Vancouver wanting him so badly was what helped seal the deal. Why would you do Phoenix a favor by taking a crazy low contract (2.5x4) if they didn't want you?

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07-03-2014, 03:56 PM
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zyllyx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
Seems like a bit of an insult. If they had offered or engaged him more, they probably would have figured out real fast he has a soft spot for staying in Phoenix. The telling part is how Vancouver wanting him so badly was what helped seal the deal. Why would you do Phoenix a favor by taking a crazy low contract (2.5x4) if they didn't want you?
I read it differently - with so many teams in on the sweepstakes, I am fairly certain Maloney thought there was no way he'd even be in the ballpark (and given some of the contracts handed out on Tuesday, can you blame him? I mean... the Engelland contract alone... ).

Once Vrby reached out, it seems clear that Don was doing his best to offer him the best deal he could muster. But yeah, maybe Don should have gotten the offer in earlier before the dollar signs started heading Vrby's way.

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Old
07-03-2014, 04:25 PM
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To me it sounds like he's excited to give playing with the Sedins a go (along with a bunch of cash). If he does well with the Sedins, which it's almost impossible not to, he'll get another 2yr deal with someone else for the same or more money. In the end he'll likely end up making at least $20 million over 4 years if he wants to. It sounds like DM had a really good chance of wrapping him up if he had approached him earlier but I guess it doesn't matter now. I won't roast Don for this one but it's certainly not a bragging point either.

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07-03-2014, 05:06 PM
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So we got outbid? Fair enough.

It doesn't seem the case that he balked at Maloney's unwillingness to include a full NMC. It's sounds like his word was good enough. My impression is that they basically had something worked out, and Vancouver swooped in with something that blew our deal out of the water.

Can we stop blaming Maloney for this?

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Old
07-03-2014, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
So we got outbid? Fair enough.

It doesn't seem the case that he balked at Maloney's unwillingness to include a full NMC. It's sounds like his word was good enough. My impression is that they basically had something worked out, and Vancouver swooped in with something that blew our deal out of the water.

Can we stop blaming Maloney for this?
That's how I see it as well. Vrbata was a good Coyote when he was here, let's wish him luck, and now lets move forward.

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07-03-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
My impression is that they basically had something worked out, and Vancouver swooped in with something that blew our deal out of the water.

Can we stop blaming Maloney for this?
I see it as Don not really pressing Vrbata enough. You might think that's reasonable, or that Vrbata initially had demands that were too high. Teams were allowed to talk to Vrbata, but it seems like there was no real effort on the part of the Coyotes to talk to him. How do you reconcile a willingness to consider 2.5x4 with not giving him an offer in the first place? There was a failure of communication there. Probably on the part of both parties. Maloney is a part of that.

Considering how hard they worked to come to an understanding in such a short amount of time, there was a plausible scenario here where Vrbata stayed a Coyote at an attractive price.

You can't fault Maloney for not matching Vancouver or whatever. But you can certainly criticize how he let it get to that point. At the end of the day, the roster is now without its top scoring forward. When you add in that this guy was willing to sign for nearly half what FA replacements would cost, it's just an extra gut punch.

Now Maloney is forced to fix a situation that he helped create. I usually like what comes out the other end. The Gagner thing was pretty much a masterstroke of cap management to make up for the idiotic signing of Ribeiro.

I'm withholding judgment until I see the mea culpa. But to simply say that Maloney can't really be faulted here is incorrect imo.

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Old
07-03-2014, 05:44 PM
  #11
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^ completely agree. I can't believe a deal couldn't get done for an important player so willing to return at such a low cost. It's impossible to see how we're going to replace what he would have brought to the team for comparable money.

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07-03-2014, 06:14 PM
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As stated in the other thread, my interest in retaining Vrbata was fairly lukewarm. We haven't gotten the right results the past few years so I'd like to change up the mix, whether through other acquisitions or promotion of young players.

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Old
07-03-2014, 06:31 PM
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Love Vrbata and he's a fan favorite for sure, but I have to agree with others here. The results haven't been there. He's a very opportunistic scorer. Having Whitney by his side was a great boost for him. It's a shame he didn't produce as much without Whitney, but I'm glad to see him land in Vancouver and wish him the best.

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07-03-2014, 08:32 PM
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LIke most athletes he took the most money. IT's nobody's fault. That's just the way it works with these guys.

Canucks overpaid but are getting a decent player for sure. It will be interesting to see what type of chemistry he can build with the Sedin sisters.

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07-03-2014, 08:49 PM
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Vrbata was 11th in the entire league in goals per game. People are letting one down year color their judgement of what he really brought to the team.

The fact is we are now a weaker team. Maybe GMDM can replace him,, maybe he can't. We'll see.

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07-03-2014, 08:56 PM
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Scary thought: In one week, the Coyotes have lost 2 of their top 4 scorers from the 2013-2014 season.

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07-03-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XX View Post
I see it as Don not really pressing Vrbata enough. You might think that's reasonable, or that Vrbata initially had demands that were too high. Teams were allowed to talk to Vrbata, but it seems like there was no real effort on the part of the Coyotes to talk to him. How do you reconcile a willingness to consider 2.5x4 with not giving him an offer in the first place? There was a failure of communication there. Probably on the part of both parties. Maloney is a part of that.

You can't fault Maloney for not matching Vancouver or whatever. But you can certainly criticize how he let it get to that point. At the end of the day, the roster is now without its top scoring forward. When you add in that this guy was willing to sign for nearly half what FA replacements would cost, it's just an extra gut punch.

Now Maloney is forced to fix a situation that he helped create. I usually like what comes out the other end. The Gagner thing was pretty much a masterstroke of cap management to make up for the idiotic signing of Ribeiro.

I'm withholding judgment until I see the mea culpa. But to simply say that Maloney can't really be faulted here is incorrect imo.
Why do we assume this was DM screwing up? What if DM just didn't want Vrbata back?

Last year's roster with this year's ages ... and some artistic liberty at the end:
38 Jeff Halpern
37 Shane Doan - captain and dear leader
36 Derek Morris
34 Mike Ribeiro
33 Radim Vrbata
33 Martin Erat - a guy we just traded for
32 Antoine Vermette - team MVP, alternate captain
32 David Moss
32 Mike Smith - starting goalie under long-term contract
31 Zbynek Michalek - first-pairing defender
29 Paul Bissonnette
29 Brandon Yip
28 Lauri Korpikoski
28 Rob Klinkhammer
28 Kyle Chipchura
28 Tim Kennedy
28 Thomas Greiss
28 Joe Vitale
28 Devan Dubnyk
28 BJ Crombeen
27 Keith Yandle
27 Martin Hanzal
27 David Schlemko
26 Chris Summers
26 Andy Miele
24 Sam Gagner
24 Mikkel Boedker
24 Mike Stone
24 Brandon McMillan
23 Oliver Ekman-Larsson
23 Jordan Szwarz
22 Mark Visentin
22 Brandon Gormley
21 Connor Murphy
21 Lucas Lessio
20 Henrik Samuelsson
19 Max Domi
18 Brendan Perlini

DM didn't acquire or retain anyone over 30, and all the 30+ returnees are here for a very good reason.

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07-03-2014, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
Scary thought: In one week, the Coyotes have lost 2 of their top 4 scorers from the 2013-2014 season.
And if the "typical" non-HF Coyote fans had their way, we would be losing a 3rd in Yandle as well.

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Old
07-04-2014, 02:00 AM
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Gagner will replace or exceed Vrbata's production....as long as they put the right players around him.

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07-04-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Why do we assume this was DM screwing up? What if DM just didn't want Vrbata back?

Last year's roster with this year's ages ... and some artistic liberty at the end:
38 Jeff Halpern
37 Shane Doan - captain and dear leader
36 Derek Morris
34 Mike Ribeiro
33 Radim Vrbata
33 Martin Erat - a guy we just traded for
32 Antoine Vermette - team MVP, alternate captain
32 David Moss
32 Mike Smith - starting goalie under long-term contract
31 Zbynek Michalek - first-pairing defender
29 Paul Bissonnette
29 Brandon Yip
28 Lauri Korpikoski
28 Rob Klinkhammer
28 Kyle Chipchura
28 Tim Kennedy
28 Thomas Greiss
28 Joe Vitale
28 Devan Dubnyk
28 BJ Crombeen
27 Keith Yandle
27 Martin Hanzal
27 David Schlemko
26 Chris Summers
26 Andy Miele
24 Sam Gagner
24 Mikkel Boedker
24 Mike Stone
24 Brandon McMillan
23 Oliver Ekman-Larsson
23 Jordan Szwarz
22 Mark Visentin
22 Brandon Gormley
21 Connor Murphy
21 Lucas Lessio
20 Henrik Samuelsson
19 Max Domi
18 Brendan Perlini

DM didn't acquire or retain anyone over 30, and all the 30+ returnees are here for a very good reason.
Last year DM said he wanted to get younger and faster, but after three games sent Brown and Lessio down for the year. I think that kind of bit him in the ***. With new ownership, I really think he wants to get younger and faster this year. I know I'm tired of these over the hill vets all coming here.

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07-04-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Why do we assume this was DM screwing up? What if DM just didn't want Vrbata back?


34 Mike Ribeiro

33 Martin Erat - a guy we just traded for


DM didn't acquire or retain anyone over 30, and all the 30+ returnees are here for a very good reason.
After Ribeiro it should read - a guy we just traded for and produced enough in basically the first half of the seaon alone, to be our fifth highest scorer.

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07-04-2014, 03:40 PM
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Christina Woloski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
To me it sounds like he's excited to give playing with the Sedins a go (along with a bunch of cash). If he does well with the Sedins, which it's almost impossible not to, he'll get another 2yr deal with someone else for the same or more money. In the end he'll likely end up making at least $20 million over 4 years if he wants to. It sounds like DM had a really good chance of wrapping him up if he had approached him earlier but I guess it doesn't matter now. I won't roast Don for this one but it's certainly not a bragging point either.
This is definitely something he considered. Especially since GM Benning has stated he told Vrbata he'd play with them.

A third liner can play with the Sedins, pot 30 goals and get a 300% raise (Anson Carter) then Vrbata can be playing his way to get paid 5mil now, then 7mil later.

Can you guys give your view on Vrbata ? I've typically thought him as underrated, but have no idea what his game is about ? The Sedins are really cerebral and use each other over more physical play, puck possession. Vrbata like that ? Or a shooter? Or ?


Last edited by Christina Woloski: 07-04-2014 at 03:49 PM.
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07-04-2014, 03:44 PM
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zyllyx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
Can you guys give your view on Vrbata ? I've typically thought him as underrated, but have no idea what his game is about ? The Sedins are really cerebral and use each other over more physical play, puck possession. Vrbata like that ? Or a shooter? Or ?
Vrbata is a pure shooter/sniper. He's got a tremendous scoring touch. The only problem is that he tends to be extremely streaky. But his goal totals should increase with playmakers like the Sedins playing with him.

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07-04-2014, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsBeReality View Post
This is definitely something he considered. Especially since GM Benning has stated he told Vrbata he'd play with them.

A third liner can play with the Sedins, pot 30 goals and get a 300% raise (Anson Carter) then Vrbata can be playing his way to get paid 5mil now, then 7mil later.

Can you guys give your view on Vrbata ? I've typically thought him as underrated, but have no idea what his game is about ? The Sedins are really cerebral and use each other over more physical play, puck possession. Vrbata like that ? Or a shooter? Or ?
The guy above me summed it up pretty well, but if Vrbie has a quality playmaker to work with, he can score a lot more consistently like when he had Ray Whitney on his line. Part of his consistency issues the last 2 years, can likely be partially attributed to the fact that we gave him awful line mates to work with on his left wing the last 2 years in Steve Sullivan, Chris Connor, Rob Klinkhammer, Tim Kennedy, and a struggling Lauri Korpikoski.

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07-04-2014, 03:58 PM
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Christina Woloski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zyllyx View Post
Vrbata is a pure shooter/sniper. He's got a tremendous scoring touch. The only problem is that he tends to be extremely streaky. But his goal totals should increase with playmakers like the Sedins playing with him.
Pure shooter - that's perfect. The Sedins need a trigger-man otherwise they're playin' pass to no end.

Can he handle a cycle ? Does he score more off the rush, or puck possession?

Always interesting to see what the Sedins do to a player.

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