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Jacob Markstrom - uncertain future with VAN

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Old
07-05-2014, 02:40 AM
  #101
David71
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keep him

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Old
07-05-2014, 02:42 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Because the consensus is Markstrom would be taken on waivers, therefore he's a wasted asset if they send him down. Besides there are two prospects sharing the load in Utica already. We also signed Ryan Miller to play 60+ games. Backing him up wastes a year of development for Lack who should be starting. I believe Markstrom can handle 15-20 games and improve. If not, like you said, the market for goalies is poor, we can add a back up veteran cheaply should Markstrom fail. Getting a modest asset for Lack and cleaning up our goalie depth chart seems like a better option to me than losing Markstrom for nothing and having a disgruntled Lack riding the pine.
Here are some simple facts to illuminate the insanity of your argument....

1. the objective of the team is to win games
2. The better players you have the more games you will win
3. Lack is better than Markstrom by quite a margin at this point
4. Lack will win us more games than Markstrom
5. Goalies are not returning a premium as there is more quality than available positions

Here are some additional assumptions.

1. There are very few if any teams needing a starter
2. Teams dont pay much in tradrs for backups
3. Lacks value is at most a high second rounder
4. If Markstrom has trade value its much less than Lacks since he is not an upgrade for many if any teams as a backup.

why would greatly lessen my ability to win 25 games for the net benefit of a second round pick to protect a goalie that most teams wiuld not even want for free to acquire a second round pick?

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Old
07-05-2014, 02:48 AM
  #103
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by SillyRabbit View Post
So basically the Luongo trade is now:

Roberto Luongo (15% retained)

for

Shawn Matthias

This has to be one of the worst combinations of poor asset management and poor trading that i've seen in a while.
Considering for a year we were told Luongo had absolutely no value, I would disagree.

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Old
07-05-2014, 02:51 AM
  #104
JP Mick
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Originally Posted by SillyRabbit View Post
So basically the Luongo trade is now:

Roberto Luongo (15% retained)

for

Shawn Matthias

This has to be one of the worst combinations of poor asset management and poor trading that i've seen in a while.
Gillis has been good for the Panthers, I miss him already.

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Old
07-05-2014, 02:57 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HC Davos View Post
As a Canucks fan, I want this guy in one place and that is the farm. I don't want to give him up.

My theory is to play him in the first two preseason games and tell him to let in 8 goals per game. Then waive him the next day. Doubtful that he will get picked up then.

In what order is teams picking on the waiver wire at this time ? I wonder if Van could make a deal with the first team. Claim him and trade him back for an 8th or whatever
hahah thats funny man, creative at least.

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Old
07-05-2014, 03:06 AM
  #106
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I believe if he clears waivers we can loan him to Europe so he could play in the SEL. That would be a better option because Eriksson and Cannata are already sharing the load in Utica.


And just because we're paying Ryan Miller $6M doesn't mean he's guaranteed 60+ games this season. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a more even 40-40 split. As long as Lack is playing well, he'll get a good amount of games.

We have plenty of back-to-backs and the Canucks are notoriously unfortunate when it comes to travel so the 'tenders getting more rest couldn't hurt.

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Old
07-05-2014, 04:14 AM
  #107
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If some team picks him up, can he be sent to AHL directly or is another waiver round done? Anyway, why not pick him up and see if he gets to the new farm? He is good enough for being sent to any NHL team's farm for no cost at all.

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Old
07-05-2014, 04:38 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SyndicateProject View Post
The homerism is strong with this one.

Markstrom was an 8.5C. Eddie Lack a 7.0B. Markstrom once a top 10 prospect in the league, Not bashing Lack in any way, he proved his worth and earned his keep but denying Markstrom has no upside is absurd.

He will get claimed, no doubt in my mind
How is that homerism of any sort? They're both Canucks property, that doesn't make any sense.

And i couldn't give two hoots what hockeysfuture rated them as in the past, they've been wrong with those ratings a lot more often than they've been right. A huge part of netminding in the NHL is mental and it's any area where Markstrom has never shown near the aptitude of Eddie Lack at any level really, despite being hyped to high heavens and given opportunity after opportunity. Markstrom's whole "upside" is based on his size and physical tools, and at this point it's looking mighty unlikely that he has the toolbox to put it all together.

Maybe Markstrom does eventually put it all together, he has great physical tools. He's still quite young in "goaltending years", but i don't see any reason to suggest that he has "more upside" than Eddie Lack at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
what's the rule for waiver claims? Can you claim the player and put them in the AHL?
No, you cannot. Which is why Markstrom is unlikely to be claimed...it would eat up a roster spot which most NHL teams are loathe to do for a player who doesn't help them win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytanti18 View Post
I also thought you could send players down right around training camp without fear of losing them on waivers...has something changed or am I imagining this?

On another note, Canucks just re-upped Cannata today.
That is not a thing that exists in a concrete sense. There is no rule providing for a "waiver exemption window" or anything of the sort. Though in practice, and as it pertains to Markstrom specifically, there is a period post training camp where all 30 teams are in the process of trying to sort out their own rosters, making final cuts, and trying to sneak players of their own through waivers...ultimately resulting in a window where teams aren't particularly inclined to claim other players unless they really really like them and are willing to risk exposing a player of their own to waivers.

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07-05-2014, 04:46 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
& both teams lose their spot in the waiver queue when better players are waived.
This isn't a thing in the real NHL. It's a misconception based on Fantasy Hockey pools. Waiver priority is based on standings of the teams, and in the offseason and a small period to open the season, the standings from the prior season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
If you claim the player, have him play a week then send him down tot he AHL I believe

1. The team that originally put him on waivers can claim him back

2. Other teams have the chance to claim him on waiver

When all is said and done if no other team wants the player and you put him on waivers with the intent to send him down I am guessing the original team gets him back and can put him on their farm team
Essentially correct. If a team were to claim Markstrom and then place him back on waivers for the purposes of assigning him to their own AHL affiliate, they would first have to offer him to a)all other teams who had put in a claim in the initial waivers process, and b)if all of those teams decline, Markstrom would be returned to the Canucks and they would be able to assign him to their own farm team in Utica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HC Davos View Post
As a Canucks fan, I want this guy in one place and that is the farm. I don't want to give him up.

My theory is to play him in the first two preseason games and tell him to let in 8 goals per game. Then waive him the next day. Doubtful that he will get picked up then.

In what order is teams picking on the waiver wire at this time ? I wonder if Van could make a deal with the first team. Claim him and trade him back for an 8th or whatever
And congratulations, you are slapped with a ridiculous tampering charge over a guy who is quite likely to clear waivers in the first place.

Nor do 8th round picks exist.

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Old
07-05-2014, 04:51 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
If some team picks him up, can he be sent to AHL directly or is another waiver round done? Anyway, why not pick him up and see if he gets to the new farm? He is good enough for being sent to any NHL team's farm for no cost at all.
No. If a team claims Markstrom in the waiver process, he is assigned to their NHL roster, and cannot be sent to their AHL affiliate.

If the claiming team no longer wants Markstrom on their NHL roster, they must offer him to each of the other teams who filed a waiver claim on the initial exposure (if any), who would then also have him assigned to their NHL roster. If none of the claiming teams wish to keep him on their NHL roster, Markstrom would revert to Vancouver property, wherein they would also be afforded the right to assign him directly to their farm team in the AHL in Utica.

And all of this, while a bit convoluted and very different from the waiver rules in fantasy hockey and NHL14 Be A GM mode, is a big part of the reason why teams aren't likely to bother with putting in a claim on a guy they likely won't want on their NHL roster taking up a spot and $1.2M in cap space.

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07-05-2014, 04:58 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
And all of this, while a bit convoluted and very different from the waiver rules in fantasy hockey and NHL14 Be A GM mode, is a big part of the reason why teams aren't likely to bother with putting in a claim on a guy they likely won't want on their NHL roster taking up a spot and $1.2M in cap space.
As I said their is the chance if a team has a goalie get injured in training camp(and it looks like for awhile) that they will take a chance with Markstrom(as opposed to trying to trade for a goalie). That is the only scenario I see him getting picked up

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Old
07-05-2014, 05:17 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
As I said their is the chance if a team has a goalie get injured in training camp(and it looks like for awhile) that they will take a chance with Markstrom(as opposed to trying to trade for a goalie). That is the only scenario I see him getting picked up
Pretty much.

That, or a goaltending coach with an abnormal amount of pull in an organization who wants to "try to fix him". Which, seems unlikely.

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Old
07-05-2014, 07:16 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
No. If a team claims Markstrom in the waiver process, he is assigned to their NHL roster, and cannot be sent to their AHL affiliate.

If the claiming team no longer wants Markstrom on their NHL roster, they must offer him to each of the other teams who filed a waiver claim on the initial exposure (if any), who would then also have him assigned to their NHL roster. If none of the claiming teams wish to keep him on their NHL roster, Markstrom would revert to Vancouver property, wherein they would also be afforded the right to assign him directly to their farm team in the AHL in Utica.

And all of this, while a bit convoluted and very different from the waiver rules in fantasy hockey and NHL14 Be A GM mode, is a big part of the reason why teams aren't likely to bother with putting in a claim on a guy they likely won't want on their NHL roster taking up a spot and $1.2M in cap space.
Thanks, there are still a couple of teams with a weak backup, but chances are that Markström will be heading fof SEL .as Canucks property then.

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Old
07-05-2014, 08:05 AM
  #114
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id much rather see him get some ahl time

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Old
07-05-2014, 12:04 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
Essentially correct. If a team were to claim Markstrom and then place him back on waivers for the purposes of assigning him to their own AHL affiliate, they would first have to offer him to a)all other teams who had put in a claim in the initial waivers process, and b)if all of those teams decline, Markstrom would be returned to the Canucks and they would be able to assign him to their own farm team in Utica.
Not quite accurate. If a team acquired Markstrom they would have to put him through waivers before being able to send him to the farm team. If the Canucks were the only team to put in a waiver claim then the Canuck have the option to send Markstrom to the AHL without waivers within 30 days provided Markstrom has not played 10 NHL games.

Teams cannot trade a player they acquired on waivers until after the playoffs unless they were the only team making a claim, or they first offered to trade the player to all the other teams submitting a waiver claim for the waiver price.

The requirement to offer a player to other claiming teams only comes into play if the acquiring team wishes to trade the player. They can send him to the AHL simply by clearing waivers--of course all the prior claiming teams would have the option to submit a claim again along with the rest.

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07-05-2014, 12:21 PM
  #116
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Can the Canucks agree with Marky to be loaned to the SEL over the summer time rather than waiting for next training camp and waive him?
Or do the Canucks still have to waive him to loan him overseas? I know they could mutually suspend his contract and the Canucks would retain his rights and he'd be free to return to the SEL but this would also mean Marky would have to agree that his contract would still be valid at the 1.2m ELC it is and not have a chance of coming back to sign a new contract until the age of 27 when he can become a free agent?

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07-05-2014, 12:27 PM
  #117
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It’s only a matter of time before he returns to Europe IMO. He’s not consistent enough at the NHL level.

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07-05-2014, 12:45 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Can the Canucks agree with Marky to be loaned to the SEL over the summer time rather than waiting for next training camp and waive him?
Or do the Canucks still have to waive him to loan him overseas? I know they could mutually suspend his contract and the Canucks would retain his rights and he'd be free to return to the SEL but this would also mean Marky would have to agree that his contract would still be valid at the 1.2m ELC it is and not have a chance of coming back to sign a new contract until the age of 27 when he can become a free agent?
Even to get loaned to a European team he must be waived. But he would still be paid the final year of his contract and become a RFA. They cannot suspend the contract, the only way a contract gets "suspended" is if a player defects mid-contract like Radulov did. If a team was caught encouraging a player to do this, they would be charged with circumventing the cap and the penalties would be worse than losing the player in question to waivers.

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Old
07-05-2014, 12:48 PM
  #119
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We got a steal of a trade for Luoey back. Markstrom was very inconsistent at the NHL level. I bet he's pissed he's going back to the AHL. He wants to be an NHL goalie, but he's def not a #1. He had a bit of a temper problem when being interviewed after a loss.

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07-05-2014, 12:55 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by hockeydude1 View Post
We got a steal of a trade for Luoey back. Markstrom was very inconsistent at the NHL level. I bet he's pissed he's going back to the AHL. He wants to be an NHL goalie, but he's def not a #1. He had a bit of a temper problem when being interviewed after a loss.
Hard for the acquiring team to not get a steal when the player has one team on his trade list and it is publicly known the player had already turned down trades to better teams offering much more.

Marky just seems young and a bit immature at this point. He's 24 and really only spent the better halves of two seasons in the NHL. I believe he has enough going him to become an NHL goaltender but he needs to get the playing time to do so. He's not gonna get it I'm Vancouver but in Utica he is a clear cut #1.
I guess it all depends on Marky himself. He plays well he pushes for an NHL spot, albeit here or somewhere else it's a win for him. If he plays poorly Vancouver sneaks him down. Win for Vancouver. If he goes back to Europe I believe it's a win/win for both team and player. He gets playing time Canucks don't lose their asset for nothing and get him playing time. Only way we lose is if a team picks him up and he plays well. Since if he plays poorly it's doubtful he stays up and is then basically sent to Utica because there isn't anyway the Canucks allow him to go to another AHL team.

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07-05-2014, 01:26 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
This isn't a thing in the real NHL. It's a misconception based on Fantasy Hockey pools. Waiver priority is based on standings of the teams, and in the offseason and a small period to open the season, the standings from the prior season.



Essentially correct. If a team were to claim Markstrom and then place him back on waivers for the purposes of assigning him to their own AHL affiliate, they would first have to offer him to a)all other teams who had put in a claim in the initial waivers process, and b)if all of those teams decline, Markstrom would be returned to the Canucks and they would be able to assign him to their own farm team in Utica.



And congratulations, you are slapped with a ridiculous tampering charge over a guy who is quite likely to clear waivers in the first place.

Nor do 8th round picks exist.
There would be no such tampering charge for letting Markstrom tank a couple pre season games.

Mike Gillis exploited the PTO loophole last year. You also must not have heard about the Kieth Ballard capcussion. Which resulted in no tampering charge either.

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Old
07-05-2014, 01:35 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Can the Canucks agree with Marky to be loaned to the SEL over the summer time rather than waiting for next training camp and waive him?
Or do the Canucks still have to waive him to loan him overseas? I know they could mutually suspend his contract and the Canucks would retain his rights and he'd be free to return to the SEL but this would also mean Marky would have to agree that his contract would still be valid at the 1.2m ELC it is and not have a chance of coming back to sign a new contract until the age of 27 when he can become a free agent?
Thats an idea worth exploring. Suspending his contract.

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Old
07-05-2014, 05:08 PM
  #123
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A lot of talent, but doesn't have the mental game to be a consistent starter. Contract too high for 3rd stringer, waiver issues, and simply a matter of poor performance. He isn't good enough to garner any value.

He had his chances already, and some games with FLA he looked like a star in the making, but those flashes never translated over into consistency.

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Old
07-05-2014, 06:26 PM
  #124
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I bet NJ claims him!

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07-05-2014, 06:30 PM
  #125
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The kid stinks. No one will claim him.

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