HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Should the Jets push to move Kane before the season starts

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-10-2014, 10:46 PM
  #326
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
If Chevy takes a loss on trading Kane, he needs to be fired.

Kane has 4 more years on his deal. Anyone who thinks that the Jets "need" to trade Kane must be thinking that somehow Kane is now going to be such a distraction that it's going to affect the team.

Doesn't seem like it's affected his play, effort, or relationships with his teammates in the last three years.

But just for the sake of argument, lets say that Kane is indeed disgruntled, and has asked for a trade. What has the biggest negative impact to the entire Jets organization, both in terms of scale, and duration:

1) Keeping a player that would like to be traded but still plays as hard as he can every night until a adequate return can be found

or

2) Taking a loss on a 23 year old very talented player signed for 4 more years because he would like to play on a different team

Path number 2 could potentially have impacts to the Jets as a team, which in turn affects revenue. I don't think any "perceived" issues Kane may bring to the team could come close to the potential financial implications of going down path #2.

Not saying he can't be traded (anyone can), I just don't agree with the notion that the Jets are either A) forced to deal him, or B) in a bad position at the bargaining table. As others have indicated, with 4 more years and a NTC, along with his age, the market of interested teams would be large.
What about the option of him just playing bad because he is disgruntled? Not sure how you can just rule that out.....

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 10:50 PM
  #327
TrillMike
Registered User
 
TrillMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 5,235
vCash: 500
Kane is a good player with plenty of upside, if he wants to be traded, I think WPG should move him.

TrillMike is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 10:58 PM
  #328
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmrdh View Post
If the Jets trade Kane for Schenn + 2nd, no Jets fan would be happy with that return.
Initially, I'm sure you're right. But 80% of the time, one of the fanbases are not "happy" with a trade their team makes at first. It's the reality in pro sports but GMs don't refrain from trades because they are worried about a % of the fans not being happy. Fans don't know the whole story and all of the factors that go into a trade.

Using Philly as an example again.... when the Flyers traded their young captain (Mike Richards) and best, young goal scorer (Jeff Carter) the fans were far from happy. But, after a while, the fans started to come around even though Carter and Richards went on to win 2 Cups with the Kings.

Reason being, fans know the reality is that Richards and Carter have the opportunity to play with Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Stoll, Voynov, Toffoli, Gaborik, etc. in LA. As Kings, Carter and Richards can be "pieces of the puzzle" but don't have the burden of carrying the team on their backs the way they did in Philly. Flyers fans also learned to like what Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and Couturier bring to the table.

The problem Jets fans have (I think) is that they're too worried about what Kane will do for a new team, instead of being realistic about what he will do in Winnipeg if they keep him.

If Kane is a 55-70 point player in Winnipeg who misses time due to injury, is not fully happy, and continually does things in the media that embarrass the organization... he is not better for Winnipeg than a solid 55-65 point centerman who is versatile and helps improve team chemistry.

Boxscore is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:01 PM
  #329
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
What about the option of him just playing bad because he is disgruntled? Not sure how you can just rule that out.....
Watching Kane play for the last 3 years this seems very unlikely. Say what you want about his maturity level, but never once has his effort ever been questioned. The kid plain out busts his *** ever shift. He has played with next to nothing for most of the time he has been in Winnipeg and has generated most of his offense on his own.

KingBogo is online now  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:05 PM
  #330
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Watching Kane play for the last 3 years this seems very unlikely. Say what you want about his maturity level, but never once has his effort ever been questioned. The kid plain out busts his *** ever shift. He has played with next to nothing for most of the time he has been in Winnipeg and has generated most of his offense on his own.
But he also took to Twitter and publicly endorsed the idea of him being traded to another team. Not only is that ballsy, it's downright unprofessional, controversial and humiliating to your teammates and the organization that pays your salary. You honestly think that players like Ladd and Wheeler aren't upset that one of their teammates is using Twitter to let the world know he prefers to go to war with another team? Come on guys, this isn't rocket science. The NHL is not fantasy hockey.

Boxscore is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:14 PM
  #331
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
But he also took to Twitter and publicly endorsed the idea of him being traded to another team. Not only is that ballsy, it's downright unprofessional, controversial and humiliating to your teammates and the organization that pays your salary. You honestly think that players like Ladd and Wheeler aren't upset that one of their teammates is using Twitter to let the world know he prefers to go to war with another team? Come on guys, this isn't rocket science. The NHL is not fantasy hockey.
I have little doubt the leadership group of the team is annoyed with Kane, but he has always seemed to march to his own drummer. Kane has always been like this, now he is just more vocal wanting to be moved. But whatever is happening off the ice the kid has always played the game at full speed. He won't dog it...he wouldn't know how.

KingBogo is online now  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:19 PM
  #332
Numbers
Registered User
 
Numbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Watching Kane play for the last 3 years this seems very unlikely. Say what you want about his maturity level, but never once has his effort ever been questioned. The kid plain out busts his *** ever shift. He has played with next to nothing for most of the time he has been in Winnipeg and has generated most of his offense on his own.
So what happened last year? Did he try to hard?

Numbers is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:21 PM
  #333
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
So what happened last year? Did he try to hard?
He played with an assortment of ineffective line mates, and then had a badly cut hand (suffered in a fight) that became infected, so he lost 19 games to injury and was rusty when he returned. He definitely wasn't dogging it last season. He always plays with high intensity and physicality.

Whileee is offline  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:35 PM
  #334
KingBogo
Admitted Homer
 
KingBogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
So what happened last year? Did he try to hard?
Yes... you could put it that way. For most of his career he has played with players that wouldn't make a contending team's squad. Then last year he finally gets some chemistry going with the Jets rising star Scheifele and then he gets a deep hand cut in a late game fight (since he always plays on the edge) then ends up getting an infection and only plays 63 games. In the right circumstances, with a play making center a healthy Kane will get you 40 goals, will lead the team in hits, beak off at the refs non stop, run over a 1/2 dozen goalies and will self inflict numerous public relation problems. That's who he is. He also happens to be one of my favorite Jets, but one I think they will eventually have to move. In all honesty he would be best served by going to a strong team with an undisputed leadership group that will help keep him in line until his maturity level can match his skill level.

KingBogo is online now  
Old
07-10-2014, 11:38 PM
  #335
Whileee
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
Initially, I'm sure you're right. But 80% of the time, one of the fanbases are not "happy" with a trade their team makes at first. It's the reality in pro sports but GMs don't refrain from trades because they are worried about a % of the fans not being happy. Fans don't know the whole story and all of the factors that go into a trade.

Using Philly as an example again.... when the Flyers traded their young captain (Mike Richards) and best, young goal scorer (Jeff Carter) the fans were far from happy. But, after a while, the fans started to come around even though Carter and Richards went on to win 2 Cups with the Kings.

Reason being, fans know the reality is that Richards and Carter have the opportunity to play with Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Stoll, Voynov, Toffoli, Gaborik, etc. in LA. As Kings, Carter and Richards can be "pieces of the puzzle" but don't have the burden of carrying the team on their backs the way they did in Philly. Flyers fans also learned to like what Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and Couturier bring to the table.

The problem Jets fans have (I think) is that they're too worried about what Kane will do for a new team, instead of being realistic about what he will do in Winnipeg if they keep him.

If Kane is a 55-70 point player in Winnipeg who misses time due to injury, is not fully happy, and continually does things in the media that embarrass the organization... he is not better for Winnipeg than a solid 55-65 point centerman who is versatile and helps improve team chemistry.
Which "55-65 point centerman" are you referring to?

Whileee is offline  
Old
07-11-2014, 10:40 AM
  #336
Boxscore
#oldNHL
 
Boxscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: 1974-94
Posts: 5,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Which "55-65 point centerman" are you referring to?
A deal involving Brayden Schenn with Philly.

Boxscore is offline  
Old
07-11-2014, 10:56 AM
  #337
hisgirlfriday
Moderator
 
hisgirlfriday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 10,988
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
A deal involving Brayden Schenn with Philly.
Describing BSchenn, a guy with 41 points as his career best and a sub .450 faceoff percentage that suggests he may be better suited to the wing, as a "55-65 point centerman" is kind of interesting.

In that case, Evander Kane's return as a "consistent 30+ goal scorer" should return quite a bit more?

You never can underestimate the hype for Andrew Shaw with a better HFBoards reputation though I guess.

hisgirlfriday is online now  
Old
07-11-2014, 10:59 AM
  #338
Huffer
Registered User
 
Huffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxscore View Post
This is too broad of a statement to make. There is much grey area in any potential deal involving Kane. If Kane is traded for a good prospect and a 1st round pick, it will take 3-4 years to start officially evaluating the deal. If he trades Kane for another good, young player, there will be time to see how it pans out.

I think fans tend to overreact to proposals and not think them through completely, the way GMs and coaches evaluate them.

Hypothetically, say the Jets trade Kane to Philadelphia for Brayden Schenn and a 2nd round pick. It will take time to evaluate the trade.

For arguments sake, say the above trade were to happen and the results are:

Philly's perspective: Evander Kane gets slotted on the top line with Giroux and Voracek and ends up hitting a career high 36 goals and 76 points within the next couple of years with the Flyers.

Winnipegs perspective: Brayden Schenn ends up a very solid, 2nd line center who is a valuable and versatile solider for the Jets. He ends up scoring 25 goals and 63 points in 2 seasons but ends up on the top PK unit and plays a nice role on the 2nd PP and wins a very nice % of his faceoffs. Not to mention, he's a loyal player who is good in the room and loves playing in Winnipeg. The 2nd round pick ends up landing the Jets a mid-level prospect or is packaged with another 2nd rounder to land the Jets a late 1st round pick.

Looking at the situation from that perspective, fans need to consider the full picture. For one, there is no Giroux and Voracek for Kane to play with in Winnipeg, so chances are, he will not be a 36 goal, 75+ point player in the Peg over the next couple of seasons. Secondly, Schenn, while not as offensive-minded as Kane, will play a very solid part in the Jets success moving forward. His production will be solid (not great) but he will bring a great attitude, intangibles and versatility to the table - something that Kane won't with the Jets.

Instead of just looking at numbers, all things need to be considered. If the above were to happen, I think both teams would consider the deal a nice hockey trade.
That's like saying then a team could move a player for a 7th round pick, but can't evaluate the trade until they find out how the pick turns out. Maybe they hit a homerun, draft the next Zetterberg and everyone is happy.

If Chevy trades Kane, he needs to get fair value. I'm not saying Schenn + can't get close to fair value, I'm talking about offers like multiple vets, bottom line players, and non 1st round picks. Those type of deals make no sense considering Kane's age, and contract status (term and no NTC).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
What about the option of him just playing bad because he is disgruntled? Not sure how you can just rule that out.....
As already indicated, he's never shown that yet, and would seem to be the exact type of personality that wouldn't.

Also, how would that help his cause then if he did want to move? That would be entirely counterproductive to him. If he wants to move, the best thing would be to bust his but, and showcase himself to the league.

That being said, maybe the Jets should just keep him for another year or two. If he does want out, he's going to be very motivated to play well.

Huffer is offline  
Old
07-11-2014, 11:04 AM
  #339
Seanahue
Registered User
 
Seanahue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
What about the option of him just playing bad because he is disgruntled? Not sure how you can just rule that out.....
Why not rule out an asteroid striking the Earth as well.

Has he played poorly on the ice? No

Should we expect him to play poorly on the ice? Of course not

Seanahue is offline  
Old
07-11-2014, 11:28 AM
  #340
Swarez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 831
vCash: 500
This may be the mot interesting story line around...

Guys like Puckdaddy put the blame on Jets organization, local media, while local media puts blame in Kane, and organization jut kinda middle of it all.

Curiosity when did the Kane rumours start? It's been couple years now.

Swarez is offline  
Old
07-11-2014, 11:29 AM
  #341
JC Numminen
Global Moderator
The kid is alright!
 
JC Numminen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Westman
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,713
vCash: 50
Take the Kane talk here:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9#post87938649

JC Numminen is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.