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Old
07-11-2014, 02:42 PM
  #101
Hawksfan2828
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Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
People saying you have to trade sharp this year while his value is high, I think you are wrong. You compete this year with sharp before the T/K new contracts kick in. You have as good a shot as any at winning the SC. Even if Sharp has a drop in value after next season it is worth it to see what this years team does. I don't think Bickell is moveable enough to get anything back. This also allows Bowman to see what next years cap will be before Sharp is moved, then he can decide if keeping Sharp is an option or not. If the cap takes a big enough jump, then you avoid that trade altogether, which obviously helps the chances the Hawks stay in contention for the SC the first year of the T/K contracts.
Exactly..... The Hawks don't need to trade Sharp right now and it would be foolish to do so. As it is we don't know what the cap will be for next season (15-16) so there is absolutely no reason right now to speculate or even assume the Hawks need a fire sale.

Besides, even if the Hawks needed to move salary Sharp IS NOT the first one out the door - Bickell is.

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07-11-2014, 02:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
People saying you have to trade sharp this year while his value is high, I think you are wrong. You compete this year with sharp before the T/K new contracts kick in. You have as good a shot as any at winning the SC. Even if Sharp has a drop in value after next season it is worth it to see what this years team does. I don't think Bickell is moveable enough to get anything back. This also allows Bowman to see what next years cap will be before Sharp is moved, then he can decide if keeping Sharp is an option or not. If the cap takes a big enough jump, then you avoid that trade altogether, which obviously helps the chances the Hawks stay in contention for the SC the first year of the T/K contracts.
And what if Sharp injures his knee? Or has a down year?

Frankly I am open to trading Sharp now while his value is highest partly because we already saw from this past playoff that he is easiest core piece to replace. They advanced to game 7 of WCF with little to no production from Sharp and many games he was downright putrid in every facet of game

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07-11-2014, 02:59 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I guess that depends on how much one thinks the Hawks could compete for a cup without Sharp. Because the best way to keep this thing going long in to the future is to recycle assets in to new assets, as opposed to letting assets expire without a replacement.
There are no kids right now in our system that can pickup Sharps production.

Trading Sharp would be an epic mistake..... I would rather trade Bickell and a 1st round pick for a 7th.

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07-11-2014, 03:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
There are no kids right now in our system that can pickup Sharps production.

Trading Sharp would be an epic mistake..... I would rather trade Bickell and a 1st round pick for a 7th.
Saad? Maybe he won't be quite the goal scorer Sharp is, but he brings some other things to the table.

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07-11-2014, 03:09 PM
  #105
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Sharp gives the Hawks a better chance of winning next season. One bad playoff performance isn't going to change that. At this point, none of the prospects in the system will be able to match his production. It would be incredibly dumb to trade him, especially when we don't even know what the cap will be for the 2015-2016 season. Plus there are other players they can trade/not resign.

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07-11-2014, 03:10 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Saad? Maybe he won't be quite the goal scorer Sharp is, but he brings some other things to the table.
..and then who replaces Saads production?

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Old
07-11-2014, 03:15 PM
  #107
Hot Cheetos
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And what if Sharp injures his knee? Or has a down year?

Frankly I am open to trading Sharp now while his value is highest partly because we already saw from this past playoff that he is easiest core piece to replace. They advanced to game 7 of WCF with little to no production from Sharp and many games he was downright putrid in every facet of game
But you play the game to win the cup, and trading sharp before next year does not give them the best chance to win the cup next year. I get that it'd probably be the best move for the Hawks for 2015-16, but it's not the best move for next season. To me, that'd be like the Hawks trading Buff, Ladd, Versteeg, etc in 2009 because they knew they'd have cap trouble in 2010. Obviously it's a little different because Sharp has a higher value than any of them did in 2009, but it's the same as far as probably giving up a shot at winning a cup next season.

Waiting another year to move Sharp also gives Saad another year to progress so that if they do trade Sharp, then Saad will have a better shot at replacing some of the production the Hawks lose with Sharp.

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07-11-2014, 03:16 PM
  #108
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Sharp is our best option for 2015. But if he had to be replaced, Morin could be our best in-house solution if Q will give him a chance.

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Old
07-12-2014, 12:18 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I guess that depends on how much one thinks the Hawks could compete for a cup without Sharp. Because the best way to keep this thing going long in to the future is to recycle assets in to new assets, as opposed to letting assets expire without a replacement.
Agreed but Sharp has two more years on his contract AFTER this season. It's not like this is his UFA year where we won't get anything of value if he absolutely has to be traded after this season. Spezza with one year left on his deal brought back a nice package and I refuse to believe a contending team won't be extremely interested in Sharp this time next year.

We already have a lot of prospects and young pieces who are trying to find a roster spot. While I'd really like the asset(s) we get from a Sharp deal, he's still a fast, 70 point, 2-way player and has been a major part of this core for years. There's value in that and I think it'd be irresponsible to trade him away when there are soooo many other pieces that can and should be moved before him.

I don't know about you guys, or how realistic this was ever going to be, but i always figured that a couple years down the road Hossa and Sharp would still very much be a part of the team and slide into bottom 6 roles. Something like...

Saad-Toews-??
Morin-TT-Kane
Sharp-Shaw-Hossa
Smith-Danault-Hartman

Keith-Hammer
Leddy-Seabrook
???-???

Crawford

Even as age sets in for our mid-lower 30's aged guys, that's still a great team and I think Bowman knows it and he'll do everything he can to keep it together

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Old
07-12-2014, 01:37 PM
  #110
Blackhawkswincup
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Spezza trade brought back terrible assets for Sens

The Stars traded a struggling young player for him and scraps

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07-12-2014, 01:40 PM
  #111
xX Hot Fuss
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Sort of relevant. Did some digging out of curiosity and this is what people thought of the Hossa signing and our future cap woes in 2009...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...wks+sign+hossa

And...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...wks+sign+hossa

Main board continues to be totally ignorant while predicting nothing but doom for our beloved Hawks

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Old
07-12-2014, 01:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Sort of relevant. Did some digging out of curiosity and this is what people thought of the Hossa signing and our future cap woes in 2009...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...wks+sign+hossa

And...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...wks+sign+hossa

Main board continues to be totally ignorant while predicting nothing but doom for our beloved Hawks
On other hand you could go back to 2010 before cap penalties/cap # came out. Hawk fans (Myself included) kept talking down the amount of roster would be gutted

No one expected to lose so much of cup team right after cup , We scoffed at how devastating cap would be

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07-12-2014, 02:48 PM
  #113
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2015/16 lineup:

Morin-Toews-Kane
Saad-TT-Hossa
Bickell-Shaw-McNeill
Danault-Kruger-Hartman

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Johns
Oduya-Dahlbeck

Crawford
Raanta

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Old
07-12-2014, 02:59 PM
  #114
Blackhawkswincup
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Since Johns is rookie in that scenario it would make more sense to have him on 3rd pair

McNeill on 3rd line ,, Yeah right


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 07-12-2014 at 10:40 PM.
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07-12-2014, 03:04 PM
  #115
Hot Cheetos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
2015/16 lineup:

Morin-Toews-Kane
Saad-TT-Hossa
Bickell-Shaw-McNeill
Danault-Kruger-Hartman

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Johns
Oduya-Dahlbeck

Crawford
Raanta
This lineup is all kinds of goofy IMO. What makes Q go from not trusting Morin to putting him with T/K? McNeill on the third line? Johns as a top 4 right away while a proven top 4 in Oduya is a #5? I'll just stop there. No hate, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

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07-12-2014, 03:11 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
2015/16 lineup:

Morin-Toews-Kane
Saad-TT-Hossa
Bickell-Shaw-McNeill
Danault-Kruger-Hartman

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Johns
Oduya-Dahlbeck

Crawford
Raanta
Where's Ben Smith?

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07-12-2014, 03:50 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Well if not for last second negotiations between NHLPA/NHL this years cap would have only gone up 3.5M (Ended up 4.5M after talks)

So I expect a similar bump next year at worst thus why I start out with 72.5M and at best up to 74M. Going conservative on cap increases after this years bump was less then forecast
At worst. The new Canadian broadcast deal kicks in.

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07-12-2014, 05:42 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Since Johns is rookie in that scenario it would make more sense to have him on 2nd pair

McNeill on 3rd line ,, Yeah right
I have Johns on the 2nd pair - so I don't know why you made that statement.

What's wrong with McNeill on the 3rd line? He got better as last season went along and if he continues to get better next season - why couldn't he play on the 3rd line in 2015/16?

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07-12-2014, 05:46 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hot Cheetos View Post
This lineup is all kinds of goofy IMO. What makes Q go from not trusting Morin to putting him with T/K? McNeill on the third line? Johns as a top 4 right away while a proven top 4 in Oduya is a #5? I'll just stop there. No hate, but it just doesn't make sense to me.
Since this is a projected 2015/16 lineup, the assumption is Morin plays well enough next season to "earn Q's trust".

Johns top-4 so there can be LD/RD pairings. Plus I think he has a better attack game than Dahlbeck so he would go better with Hammer and Dahlbeck better with Oduya to keep each d-pairing with one each of PMD/SAH.

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07-12-2014, 05:47 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kurtosis View Post
Where's Ben Smith?
Cap casualty along with Sharp and Oduya and others.

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07-12-2014, 06:11 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
2015/16 lineup:

Morin-Toews-Kane
Saad-TT-Hossa
Bickell-Shaw-McNeill
Danault-Kruger-Hartman

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Johns
Oduya-Dahlbeck

Crawford
Raanta
I think 15/16 is too early for McNeill, Hartman and Danault but who knows. I can see McNeill possibly replacing Bickell at some point and Im sure thats what the Hawks have in mind. If not, they'll have to keep Bickell but I cant see Bickell being resigned past his current contract if he isnt traded earlier.

Danault would be great on the 4th line and thats what most on these boards projected him as on draft day. Had a brutal year last year but has a great motor. They said he did much better when Hartman was paired with him so we'll see if he can rebound.

With the cap situation, Dahlbeck and Johns are almost locks to make the team at some point. I think that would be the current consensus. When that will happen, hard to say. I can see Dahlbeck by 15/16. Might be this year. Johns I can see by 15/16. His entry level contract runs out by then since hes on a 2 year deal and looked very good in his brief showing at Rockford.

Oduya, I dont think he gets retained. Might be moved this year. That would be nice and if he leaves, its going to create a huge hole on d but I think hes going to be a cap casualty.

So as far as speculation about the future lineup, I think most of it would be how I see it at this point. Whether it all happens in 15/16, could be or some may move in later.

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Old
07-12-2014, 09:06 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Spezza trade brought back terrible assets for Sens

The Stars traded a struggling young player for him and scraps
That was a pretty sad return for Speeza, but not surprising. He's two years removed from top form, makes $7m+ when the cap is leas than expected (tougher to fit under the cap), asked for a trade, and only has one year left on his deal so possibly a rental. That's not that appealing all in.

Sharp was in top form last year and carries an appealing cap hit for 3 more years. His Cup pedigree and great ability to deal with the press and PR make him even more valuable to young teams like Florida. And if the Hawks trade him this year there's no leverage weakness other than his NTC.

The Hawks don't have to trade him and won't unless they get a very good return that meets their needs in a win-win or overpay.

That should be:
1) Young high-impact roster player one-for-one (with minor horse trading if needed). Saad quality.
2) Top-10 (expected) pick, NHL-ready prospect/young player that is equal to of hawks guys like MeNeil or Denault but a little further along, and other pieces depending on how high the pick is.

Absent this the Hawks trade one or two of other the usual suspect and remain the (very slight) cup favorites (7-1 @ Vegas today)

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07-12-2014, 10:23 PM
  #123
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Any lineup that includes Bickell but not Sharp I'm just going to go ahead and ignore.

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07-12-2014, 10:41 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I have Johns on the 2nd pair - so I don't know why you made that statement.

What's wrong with McNeill on the 3rd line? He got better as last season went along and if he continues to get better next season - why couldn't he play on the 3rd line in 2015/16?
Meant 3rd pair

As for McNeill he has done nothing to show much of a future outside of potentially a 4th line RW

To put him in 3rd line RW spot with how little he has shown since draft and as professional to me is a stretch

At least with Hartman/Danault they provide a pest with defensive ability in that spot. Also both seem to be much better skaters

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07-12-2014, 11:02 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
Any lineup that includes Bickell but not Sharp I'm just going to go ahead and ignore.
Yeah, no doubt.

Not saying Bickell's useless. He definitely provides size, physical play (just not enough) and has some offensive skill, but simply no comparison to Sharp. Yeah, Sharp's getting older, but he can still fly. The only way Sharp goes is if Stan gets an offer he can't refuse, Sharp markedly declines, or he's a cap casualty. WRT the latter, Bickell will go before Sharp.

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