HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Phi and Nash

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-10-2014, 08:04 AM
  #26
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,973
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriHab View Post
Just wondering, Nashville needs offense, but I keep seeing counts or Laughton offers, but aren't those guys more shutdown centers than offensive forces at this point in their development?
Yes they are. My thinking in having Coots possibly in the trade would be that adding him would hurt the Preds defensively much less overall and with the prospects they already have and the added piece with Coots, overall they'd be a much better team.

Personally, I think that if I werethem iI'd want Voracek + 1st/top prospect. Voracek could really help drive their offense someone like Morin should become a #2/#3 dman making the sting of losing Jones a little less painful. Simmonds adds less individual offense but adds great physical play, is a great complimentary player and is on one hell of a steal of a contract. He just won't DRIVE your offense and that's why I'd add a 1st + top prospect (or two 1sts) with him.

So are the Preds fans at least somewhat happy with what I offered? I've seem a lot of offers for Jones that in my view have just been insulting but if any of these were to actually happen would you, as Preds fans, at least be"okay" with the return?

phlocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:07 AM
  #27
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 30,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
Call me crazy, but I'd do Couturier+ for Jones and hope that Laughton can fill the hole at 3c. Maybe Couturier and Hagg?
A) I don't think that would get Nashville to bite

B) Flyers management made it sound like Laughton will start out in the AHL this year.

http://www.hockeyforums.net/index.ph...ll-2014-recap/

They aren't going to count on him immediately taking Couturier's role as the second center on the team (by ice time) and top penalty killing forward.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:08 AM
  #28
NitHeel
Kimmo Forever
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Isn't that what people refer to when they say that offersheets burn bridges and relationships between teams?
That's what they refer to on HFB, I don't see any reasonable evidence that mature adult GMs would follow that.

Jones is one of the few (reasonable) guys I'd deal Couturier for.

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:12 AM
  #29
Preds33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 9,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
That's what they refer to on HFB, I don't see any reasonable evidence that mature adult GMs would follow that.

Jones is one of the few (reasonable) guys I'd deal Couturier for.
Then why aren't offersheets used more often if that were the case?

Preds33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:16 AM
  #30
LEIFey
Context Matters!
 
LEIFey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 7,493
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LEIFey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Then why aren't offersheets used more often if that were the case?
Because they require drastic overpayment and lots of draft picks in compensation. They are the definition of expensive gambles, and not every team is willing to play.

Also, they require the RFA to actually reach RFA, and a lot of teams protect themselves pretty well by signing them before that happens.

LEIFey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:17 AM
  #31
flyershockey
Registered User
 
flyershockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Then why aren't offersheets used more often if that were the case?
Well because they tend to not work. Most teams don't view them as a realistic way of acquiring a player. Weber was in a fairly rare situation and it still didn't work. And by most accounts, it wasn't even close.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:25 AM
  #32
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 30,363
vCash: 50
I am kind of surprised no one has offer sheeted Krug and Smith to take advantage of Boston's cap crunch. They could offer $3.3 million a season and only have to give up a 2nd as compensation.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/2014/06/...ed-free-agent/

Cap Hit of offer sheet ----------- Draft Pick Compensation
$1,110,249 or below -------------- None
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 --- Third-round pick
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 --- Second-round pick
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 --- First-round and third-round pick
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 --- First-round, second-round and third-round pick
Over $6,728,781 to $8,410,976 --- Two first-round picks, second-round pick, third-round pick
Over $8,410,976 ----------------- Four first-round picks

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:27 AM
  #33
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,509
vCash: 500
They don't have enough pro experience for an offer sheet I believe

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:32 AM
  #34
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 30,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
They don't have enough pro experience for an offer sheet I believe
You're right.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-nhl-offseason

Quote:
All eyes were on the Boston Bruins, who as of Monday have about $5.6 million in salary-cap space with RFAs Reilly Smith and Torey Krug looming as offer sheet candidates. Alas, neither player is eligible to sign an offer sheet, as both played fewer than 10 games in their first season. If not for that caveat, signing each to contracts with $5 million cap hits would have forced the Bruins to either let them go or make a trade to free the space to retain their services.

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:36 AM
  #35
J1S
Registered User
 
J1S's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Country: Canada
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
None of these deals even come close.

J1S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:40 AM
  #36
PFL615
Registered User
 
PFL615's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Smashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
Not getting Jones unless Dirty Mitts is coming the other way in some sort of package. Jones + picks.

PFL615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:41 AM
  #37
NitHeel
Kimmo Forever
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds33 View Post
Then why aren't offersheets used more often if that were the case?
Um, because they require huge dollars and put a ton of draft picks at risk. You really think it's "fear of reprisal"? If an offer sheet is such an evil, awful thing which everyone avoids like the plague, why did the league give the GMs the ability to use them?

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:48 AM
  #38
flyersfan018
Registered User
 
flyersfan018's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,378
vCash: 1859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix Potvin View Post
None of these deals even come close.
Lol Couts/Voracek + would not get Jones? Holy **** this guy is overrated already.

flyersfan018 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 08:51 AM
  #39
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 17,509
vCash: 500
I love Jones but would just rather keep our center depth and wait the extra 1-2 years for morin/sanheim/ghost/hagg to develop. Keep building from within. Also Nashville won't move Jones.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 09:07 AM
  #40
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 10,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I love Jones but would just rather keep our center depth and wait the extra 1-2 years for morin/sanheim/ghost/hagg to develop. Keep building from within. Also Nashville won't move Jones.
Yea exactly what I came to post. The press should trade weber to get space and fwds as they would have a very good blue line otherwise. A similar thing could be done to a lesser degree with Jones. They have a need to get fwds, they have D to trade for it. All of these little signings will not make them good. Take a look at the devils, it will be a similar outcome.

On the other hand it makes no sense for us to trade away a top line wing like Jake or a future selke winner in couts. A few years ago it would make sense but with the amazing D we have coming up should give us one of the best D corp in the league in a few years. That combined with our fwds and goalie makes a top team in league and in the east for sure.

TheKingPin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 09:11 AM
  #41
Infinite Jest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,368
vCash: 500
Need a young potential franchise center for our young potential franchise D. Couturier+ is not gonna do it. Philly doesn't have the right pieces. Other than Giroux, but that's a counter-productive move for them.

Infinite Jest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 09:46 AM
  #42
Phillyfan28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeauxPreds View Post
Couts + a very good prospect would do it. If anyone is going to have to overpay for a Nashville player right now, its philly.
I'd love to hear the logic behind that.

Phillyfan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 09:49 AM
  #43
Filip Forceberg
Registered User
 
Filip Forceberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,546
vCash: 500
Am I missing something with all of these offers that include Couturier? I know that he's been touted as an excellent center, but his stats look very similar to Colin Wilson's.

Filip Forceberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 09:56 AM
  #44
PFL615
Registered User
 
PFL615's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Smashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,578
vCash: 500
Another prime example of other teams trying to unload a collection of ok players for one of Smashvilles talented d men.

PFL615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:19 AM
  #45
triggrman
Registered User
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,482
vCash: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
Am I missing something with all of these offers that include Couturier? I know that he's been touted as an excellent center, but his stats look very similar to Colin Wilson's.
Exactly, and Wilson was playing for Trotz in very limited ice time role.

Colin Wilson, 81 games played, 11 goals, 22 assist, 33 points, Power Play Points - 5. TOI/g 15:12 Total TOI 1,232:30, ES TOI/g 13:38 Total ES TOI 1,105:01 Total powerplay time 127:00

Sean Couturier 82 games played, 13 goals, 26 assist for 39 points. Powerplay points, 3. TOI/g 19:05, ES TOI/g 14:22, Total ice time, 1,565:07, Total ES ice time 1,179:01, total powerplay time 104:44.

triggrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:21 AM
  #46
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
 
BrindamoursNose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFL615 View Post
Not getting Jones unless Dirty Mitts is coming the other way in some sort of package. Jones + picks.
When you refer to Dirty Mitts, I hope you're not referring to Giroux...

I admit, everyone other than G should be available when talking about Jones (even my boy Couturier), but not G. They're not in the same hemisphere.

BrindamoursNose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:29 AM
  #47
Random Forest
aka hockeyfreak7
 
Random Forest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Exactly, and Wilson was playing for Trotz in very limited ice time role.

Colin Wilson, 81 games played, 11 goals, 22 assist, 33 points, Power Play Points - 5. TOI/g 15:12 Total TOI 1,232:30, ES TOI/g 13:38 Total ES TOI 1,105:01 Total powerplay time 127:00

Sean Couturier 82 games played, 13 goals, 26 assist for 39 points. Powerplay points, 3. TOI/g 19:05, ES TOI/g 14:22, Total ice time, 1,565:07, Total ES ice time 1,179:01, total powerplay time 104:44.
Wilson got the easiest zone starts on the Preds (Couturier got the hardest on the Flyers). He also didn't have nearly the strength of competition that Couturier did. Couturier played nearly 50 minutes against Crosby, 40 against Tavares, 37 against Backstrom, etc.

Couturier is an offensively talented player who has never been in a position to use his offensive skills. He has been tasked with shutting down the Crosbys, Ovechkins, and Tavareses of the league since he stepped foot in the NHL. Putting up 39 points in such a role last year is quite an accomplishment.


Think of the stuff that makes Mike Fisher a wonderful two-way center and that's what Couturier is and more. He played more difficult minutes than even Fisher did, too. Removing some of his shackles would increase his production by no insignificant amount.


Last edited by Random Forest: 07-10-2014 at 10:37 AM.
Random Forest is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:30 AM
  #48
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 30,363
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
Am I missing something with all of these offers that include Couturier? I know that he's been touted as an excellent center, but his stats look very similar to Colin Wilson's.
http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/402290

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/6/2...hy-winner-2014

Curufinwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:32 AM
  #49
flyershockey
Registered User
 
flyershockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Exactly, and Wilson was playing for Trotz in very limited ice time role.

Colin Wilson, 81 games played, 11 goals, 22 assist, 33 points, Power Play Points - 5. TOI/g 15:12 Total TOI 1,232:30, ES TOI/g 13:38 Total ES TOI 1,105:01 Total powerplay time 127:00

Sean Couturier 82 games played, 13 goals, 26 assist for 39 points. Powerplay points, 3. TOI/g 19:05, ES TOI/g 14:22, Total ice time, 1,565:07, Total ES ice time 1,179:01, total powerplay time 104:44.
Colin Wilson is a 24 (25 at the beginning of the coming season) year old whose progression has stagnated.

Sean Couturier is a 21 year old who has gotten better every season since entering the NHL while playing some of the most difficult defensive minutes in the NHL and leading all NHL forwards in PK TOI/G last year. And to top it all off, Couturier still outscored Wilson last year.

The two are not close, and the gap widens with every passing day.

flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-10-2014, 10:36 AM
  #50
Infinite Jest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,368
vCash: 500
Couturier offers more than points, lets please not turn this into yet another thread about how great SC is. The bottom line is, he isn't the type of player that should be the centerpiece in a Seth Jones trade.

Preds need a young potential franchise center if they're moving their young potential franchise D-man. Couturier is not a franchise type center.

Infinite Jest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.